Starting Westside

[Furg]

I have a few questions for all you experienced Westsiders. I need some help putting together my bench periodization. I have been working a lot of heavy bench the last few weeks. My main triceps exercises have been cg bench, weighted dips, and skullcrushers. My cg is right behind my bench as far as weight is concerned, and my bench has been sticking at the bottom. I have a couple obvious things to work on: my chest is weak, my lats are weak, and my speed is lacking.

1) What do you think would be a good way to periodize ME bench lifts since I have been working off the flat bench? Floor presses I would think are #1 for being weak off my chest, but is it better to work up in height or down? i.e. Week 1: Floor Press, Week2: 2-3 board, Week 3: 5 board...or the other way around...5 board ->2-3 board -> floor presses?

2) When do you do heavy triceps movements? like up to 1RM or 3RM rack lockouts...ME or DE day? Would doing it DE day interfere with next ME Bench? Would doing it ME day take away from your strength doing them after the ME movement? Could I do lockouts and another tri movement in the same session? Or would it even be possible to make 6" rack lockouts a ME lift?

My max Bench is 305, but today I moved my hands out a little more(ring finger on rings, my strongest bench is pinky inside the rings) and felt weaker than last week.

My bands on their way, but today for ME Bench, I did:
Flat Bench - 135*5, 185*5, 225*3, 275*1, 295*1, 315*0,0, 225*6
Lat PD to Chest - 200*10,10,10
Weighted Dips - 90*7,7,6
Lat Raise - 25*10,10,10
I kept the rest periods between my accessory work to 60-90 seconds...60 on lat pd and lat raise

Any input would be appreciated...I have a lot to learn so please tear it apart.

 

[rjl296]

try a 4 board instaed of a 5 board
I do close grip bench as a ME also
work on you speed should be priority #1
do triceps on both bench days, 3rm max on DE days
do barbell or chest supported rows instead of pulldowns
do tricep right after bench - i'd try something besides dips - JM press or close grip incline really work for me
there are lots of ME exercises , try a new one every week, and pick 4 or 5 that bring up your weaknesses best
if you haven't already check out elitefts

I'm new at this too, but if you wanna learn, theres ALOT of information around

 

[Furg]

Thanks a lot rjl...yeah ive been reading nonstop here and at elitefts for about a week. I've also been to Irishpower's site and the Militia's. There's so much to take in that's new to me. I'm still sorting through it and re-read something every day, but every time i read somethin new, it fires me up more. I agree about doin something else other than weighted dips. They've worked for me, when I wanted hypertrophy, after CG Bench, but today they didn't seem like enough by themselves nor did they seem to work the tris in a way that would help my bench so I'll move on.

 

[rjl296]

yeah, i find it soooo much easier to stay motivaed PL than BB . I like to be stronger, and I've gained ~ 9 lbs in a short time too !! ( 8 weeks)

 

[DOM]

speed work, lat work, and full range of motion ME lifts to bring up the weakness at the bottom. in that order of importance. and as always, triceps, triceps triceps.

 

[spatts]

The weakness at the bottom is shoulders, shoulders, shoulders.

Hey Furg...

I'm not the best bencher around these parts, by any stretch, but I'll offer my thoughts. Your chest may very well be weak, but if you're benching low, then it's not your MAIN problem. Of course, it never good to have a weak link, but it's more likely tris/shoulders/lats than chest, assuming you bench like a PLer. Many a'powerlifter have competed with torn pecs, because they're just not as crucial as you might think. They will still get hit, because the movement is compound, but not isolated for the chest like a BB bench.

It's all about speed. I'm addicted to bands and speed work. Momentum can carry you when leverage doesn't, sometimes. We usually alternate the two main moves high and low. If we choose to do floor press as a 1st move, then we do something high, like 4 board, for a second move, and vice versa. I feel like 2 board gets lower than the floor press, but that could depend on arm length too. You have to consider that the board kinda sinks in a bit too. I do some speed work with bands wrapped around db's, and that goes ALL the way down, but only half way up...just bottom end speed work.

We usually cycle the 5,4, JM's, with floor, 2, 3...trying to keep the high and lows far apart. For example, we'd probably choose JM's with 3 board, and band lockouts with 2 board, etc...just maintaining a well balanced range between the two moves.


Whichever of the 2 main moves is more tricep (the top end stuff) we do that to a 1 RM on ME day and to a 3RM with speed on speed day. Not set in stone, but that's the idea.

Then we do 1 tricep accessory move, which is different than a second move or first move that's mostly tricep...THIS move is isolated. Like rolling extensions, push downs, etc. Then 1 accessory move for lats, and one for shoulders.

One of the reasons Westside is set up the way it is, is to allow recovery. You have 3 days between DE and ME bench, and 4 days between ME and DE squat/dl. I rarely perform a full ROM of anything to a 1RM.

I also benefit from keeping my accessory work in the plane of action that the movement recruits. For example, rolling extentions in place of seated skull cruchers. I can tell you that JM presses saved my arse at my comp. I also do my DE day accessory work with speed. ME day I may do 4 sets of 10 heavy, and on DE day I will do 6x8 but fast with short rest. It's still about
40-50 reps either way, just performed differently. I started doing this a couple months ago, and it has really helped me through sticking points...speed in general has helped.

There's an article on Elitefts that has sample rotations of max effort bench moves. Did you see that? Might be a good jumping off point.

These are the things that I have seen working for me in the short time I've been doing this. Take what you will, and best of luck.

 

[BigD50]

The weakness at the bottom is shoulders, shoulders, shoulders.

I may be wrong, but I thought common knowledge was the bottom was back and technique more than shoulders. Here is some info from the post Bench v1.0:

"Weak at the initiation of the concentric phase (out of the bottom): Strengthen lats, pecs, as well as learn how to recruit lats properly."

 

[spatts]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the lats stabilize front to back, the traps create a tight solid surface, technique is ALWAYS a factor, and delts bear most of the start up momentum from the bottom. In any case, it's not "triceps, triceps, triceps.

Ever notice how people with weak shoulders/shoulder problems, rotator cuff problems, etc...are weak at the bottom?

 

[Furg]

Thanks Dom, Spatts, and BigD. Spatts, that's exactly what I was looking for. Keeping top and bottom work spaced makes sense, just wanted to make sure I didn't start out completely wrong. BigD and Dom, these are also things that I do need to work on. I needed a little agreement I was going about this the right way.


On another note, I'm going home(Chicago) this Saturday for 2 weeks and I saw a gym near my house is hosting one of the westside seminars later in February or something. But anyway I thought I would call them and see if they have anyone who trains westside there and if I could get a 2-week membership(cuz I need to lift somewhere) and maybe follow them around. I have been lifting and talking with a friend who has competed(class 1 as a 198), but without a video camera here at school, that's only one pair of eyes watching me.

 

[musc2002pa]

Weakness off the bottom is usually lats and shoulder somewhat....assuming that you bench with your elbows tucked in and in a low groove. Strong lats and upper back are critical, as they help to stabilize the shoulders.

I have a torn rotator cuff and still mangage to bench well. Just dont forget about training your rotators.