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Shitty News.......

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
Just got back from the hemotologist.......she says my low test levels, low wbc was due to liver damage prob. from supplement abuse (ie. excessive b-12, c, a, creatine, etc...) couple with my aas use a few years ago, andro, etc. Good news is it's not fatal, and good news is Im not shut down......bad news is, I got a bunch of gear that Im not sure what to do with..........what would you do?
 
Will you ever be able to use again?

If not, get rid of the gear if you're in the US. No sense in risking posession for something you'll never be able to use.
 
yeah, I plan to take it in a couple of weeks.,....just lowered doses................hell, Im suppose to be on the patch right now, so a little test wont hurt......
 
JKurz1 said:
yeah, I plan to take it in a couple of weeks.,....just lowered doses................hell, Im suppose to be on the patch right now, so a little test wont hurt......
Click to expand...

spoken like a true "juice head"...good luck bro :)
 
Get a second opinion. Vitamin C and b12 are supposed to be good for the liver.

Dont take vitamin A supplements. If you were watching a program called "truth about vitamins" on health channel or TLC, not sure which one. Anyway, supposedly they were doing a study on smokers who were given vitamin A to see if they had a reduction of lung cancer. Turned out the opposite, 18%increase.

And a study showing Vitamin A damaging liver in the long run. The dosages these people were taking was 2000mcg. Also bad for the bones.
 
No orals thats for sure.

Hop on some r-ala, milk thisltes, tylers, NAC, gluthaloine (sp?), and you'd be surprised at how fast your liver will come back. It's quite a resilent organ.

The decision is yours to go on or not though. Maybe an 8 week test pro/ npp stack; but thats just a maybe.
 
psychedout said:
No orals thats for sure.

Hop on some r-ala, milk thisltes, tylers, NAC, gluthaloine (sp?), and you'd be surprised at how fast your liver will come back. It's quite a resilent organ.

The decision is yours to go on or not though. Maybe an 8 week test pro/ npp stack; but thats just a maybe.
Click to expand...
what if its only 20mg of dbol, 500mg test?
 
If 3/4ths of the bros on this board would have the detailed tests I had done, I guaruntee you'd see the same thing, if not worse...........promise!!!! Good thing I got tested, as I, like you, had ZERO symptoms............
 
bro sorry to hear this i would defiently get a second opinion on this, just wondering why it took them so long to make this diagnosis, good luck bro
 
Not to be a dick but if want to get back in order or limit further liver damage you should steer clear of 17aa regardless of dosage. That's the bottom line.

But yeah, I'd also get a second opinion since this is a concern.
 
JKurz1 said:
If 3/4ths of the bros on this board would have the detailed tests I had done, I guaruntee you'd see the same thing, if not worse...........promise!!!! Good thing I got tested, as I, like you, had ZERO symptoms............
Click to expand...
Yes its true. We pay high price for those muscles!
 
Wh are you guys sorry to hear???? I have slightly damaged my liver just as all of you have if you had it tested...she compared it to someone who drank a few beers a night......except I dont drink........its reversible, I'm fine, its not cancer, and we go on...you guys should ALL have bloodwork done tomorrow.............
 
JKurz1 said:
If 3/4ths of the bros on this board would have the detailed tests I had done, I guaruntee you'd see the same thing, if not worse...........promise!!!! Good thing I got tested, as I, like you, had ZERO symptoms............
Click to expand...

I have detailed tests done and I am in much better shape than you; I think 3/4 is an overestimate by far. 2/5th's I could believe.

Only thing I ever have had a problem with is cholesterol, and I seem to winning that battle thanks to very high fibre diet, cardio, and polisocanol. My liver tests have always come back fine -- even after 3 months of accutane with some dianbol at the beginning.

Jkurz, I suspect something with your liver is genetic. Some kinda of predisposition to problems or something. Your oral use is very small, and creatine and b-12 do nothing to the liver; and if I remember correctyl, you haven't used any AAS period in over a year.

Guys like galaxy use 100mg of dbol for 6 weeks and never have a problem in their bloodwork. Same with needsize.
 
If you can't/won't be using your gear, auction it off on Ebay. I hear there's a good market for AAS on there these days. Just call it a book with test and deca and d-bol for chapters and pages as the quantity of each. Remember the Clomid thread about this two weeks ago? LMAO.

If no to Ebay, I could use some quality stuff. Would pay handsomely. Please...? [groveling]

-e
 
psychedout said:
I have detailed tests done and I am in much better shape than you; I think 3/4 is an overestimate by far. 2/5th's I could believe.

Only thing I ever have had a problem with is cholesterol, and I seem to winning that battle thanks to very high fibre diet, cardio, and polisocanol. My liver tests have always come back fine -- even after 3 months of accutane with some dianbol at the beginning.

Jkurz, I suspect something with your liver is genetic. Some kinda of predisposition to problems or something. Your oral use is very small, and creatine and b-12 do nothing to the liver; and if I remember correctyl, you haven't used any AAS period in over a year.

Guys like galaxy use 100mg of dbol for 6 weeks and never have a problem in their bloodwork. Same with needsize.
Click to expand...

You are in much better shape than me???? I'm FINE.......maybe its genetic maybe it's not..........everything goes through the liver, it could be anything and I've never taken an oral aside from clomid and nolv........it's all good.....REMEMEBER THIS WAS JUST A GUESS ON HER PART.....AN INTITIAL SCREENING WITH my low test scores..........thats it...........
 
It will only reverse should you not continue to rip it appart faster than it can repair itself. Hence the no dbol for now.

But yeah, people on here need to make sure they take care of themselves and monitor their health. It might sometimes be appealing to play human chemistry set but you only have one body.
 
JKurz1 said:
Just got back from the hemotologist.......she says my low test levels, low wbc was due to liver damage prob. from supplement abuse (ie. excessive b-12, c, a, creatine, etc...) couple with my aas use a few years ago, andro, etc. Good news is it's not fatal, and good news is Im not shut down......bad news is, I got a bunch of gear that Im not sure what to do with..........what would you do?
Click to expand...


I would move the gear to someone worthy's dresser drawer.. I have paypal :) j/k
 
It's just gonna be mild cycles from here on out.........300-400mg of test, 300mg eq, maybe some winny..........no clomid..........just trib..........
 
Madcow2 said:
It will only reverse should you not continue to rip it appart faster than it can repair itself. Hence the no dbol for now.

But yeah, people on here need to make sure they take care of themselves and monitor their health. It might sometimes be appealing to play human chemistry set but you only have one body.
Click to expand...
NO DBOL FOR NOW.........plain and simple...........nothing for a few weeks anyways.....just some good milk thistle...........
 
JKurz1 said:
You are in much better shape than me???? I'm FINE.......maybe its genetic maybe it's not..........everything goes through the liver, it could be anything and I've never taken an oral aside from clomid and nolv........it's all good.....REMEMEBER THIS WAS JUST A GUESS ON HER PART.....AN INTITIAL SCREENING WITH my low test scores..........thats it...........
Click to expand...

In terms of health, yeah, I'd bet I am, but who cares, thats not the point of this thread. I'm young and should be in good health.

Clomid and nolva also are not liver toxic. Nothing to worry about there.

I can't believe you are speculating on a guess. Seems like a pretty far fetched guess. Low test scores is more about LH, FSH function, how much SHGB your body produces, overtraining (both weights and cardio), zinc defecits, etc.

Doesn't your regular bloodwork include liver values? Strange that it wouldn't -- everyone's does, even regular joes who just go for their yearly bloodwork.
 
yes, my liver values were elevated and have since come down to normal.......YES, she's just speculating.....not sure yet........took more blood..........I am 100% confident it's from cardio 7 days a week, training 6 days a week, and moderate calories.........sometimes reduced.......and a little marrry juannnaaa here and there....
 
JKurz1 said:
yes, my liver values were elevated and have since come down to normal.......YES, she's just speculating.....not sure yet........took more blood..........I am 100% confident it's from cardio 7 days a week, training 6 days a week, and moderate calories.........sometimes reduced.......and a little marrry juannnaaa here and there....
Click to expand...

Well, my best advice is to not to anything to hastily until you know what is going on for sure.
 
why would you ever go back on 17aa's? that seems silly to me..

get on a good liver stack NOW and then get retested.. if you are worried i would go see a specialist..
 
JKurz1 said:
Just got back from the hemotologist.......she says my low test levels, low wbc was due to liver damage prob. from supplement abuse (ie. excessive b-12, c, a, creatine, etc...) couple with my aas use a few years ago, andro, etc. Good news is it's not fatal, and good news is Im not shut down......bad news is, I got a bunch of gear that Im not sure what to do with..........what would you do?
Click to expand...


are there any current blood numbers or clinical symtoms indicative of liver damage, or is she just putting forward a possible hypothesis for why you have low test and low wbc?

what you described as your "abuse" sounds like just plain "use".
 
Is all good bruthas....just got off the phone with her and I jumped to conclusions......overreacted...she was only concerned with my high liver enzymes which could be from many things....she did say just take a good multi and come back in (3weeks) and get rechecked.,.....don't worry, im staying off.....been off for years now, whats a few more weeks/month. Just keeping it mild then, test,eq maybe some winny,......no dbol for now...can you take dbol with decent results at the end of a cycle?
 
JKurz1 said:
It's just gonna be mild cycles from here on out.........300-400mg of test, 300mg eq, maybe some winny..........no clomid..........just trib..........
Click to expand...
Winny is 17aa (both oral and injectable) :mix:
 
so, what would you run for a mild cycle? Test/Eq? I was thinking of maybe even a low dose (HRT) levels to start.....like 250mg of sus........then creep into it and finish with dbol if I'm cleared.......
 
JKurz1 said:
Wh are you guys sorry to hear???? I have slightly damaged my liver just as all of you have if you had it tested...she compared it to someone who drank a few beers a night......except I dont drink........its reversible, I'm fine, its not cancer, and we go on...you guys should ALL have bloodwork done tomorrow.............
Click to expand...


The body can repair lots of damage if given the chance. Hold off on the gear for awhile and get rechecked, it doesn't sound like something you can't recover from.
 
Keep it clean man. I'm off and I'm loving it. I feel like I look the best I have in years. Get even more shredded. Take care of yourself my man!
 
Breeze said:
The body can repair lots of damage if given the chance. Hold off on the gear for awhile and get rechecked, it doesn't sound like something you can't recover from.
Click to expand...
tis my plan.............
 
Jkruz man, no orals! You should know better. Don't kick your liver after it was just down -- it will have a harder time getting it back up.

You keep saying 'just a little winny, just a little dbol' -- none, end of story. Save it for your next cycle, not this one.
 
Hey, its over.....no orals...........maybe in a few months.............for now, it's 400mg-500 test/wk, 300-400mg of eq

maca and tribulus pct........
 
I would lay off everything except milk thistle for 6 months then check again.
 
THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE...........just had them rechecked yesterday..........she was going off of my september tests..........we'll see............Ifall is good, I'll prob still layoff till Feb 1.............
 
JKurz1 said:
If 3/4ths of the bros on this board would have the detailed tests I had done, I guaruntee you'd see the same thing, if not worse...........promise!!!! Good thing I got tested, as I, like you, had ZERO symptoms............
Click to expand...

hey bro, well understood. I was taking Andro fuel and finigenx and my liver values were higher than usual, then he had me do a hepatic panel that was fine.. Since then I have been using milk thistle and liv52.. Your liver will regenerate itself. B vitamins and creatine, get another opinion for real.
 
If you plan on doing shorter/milder cycles I would stick with short esters.

Test prop 350-750mg/week for 8 weeks
NPP 350mg/week 8 weeks

They make a Boldenone Propionate ester (EQ prop) which you may be interested in, though some people have reported getting sick off of it.

At the very least I would start supplementing with milk thistle (its cheap and available) and then get retested.

I'd act on it quick too, not start 4 different threads about liver stacks etc.
j/k in a somewhat serious manner on that last comment :p
 
JKurz1 said:
It's just gonna be mild cycles from here on out.........300-400mg of test, 300mg eq, maybe some winny..........no clomid..........just trib..........
Click to expand...
winny is c17 also, stay away from it while your liver is healing.
 
JKurz1 said:
??
Click to expand...
yes NAC can be found at supplement store or pharmacy otc. it is helpful in regenerating liver. nac is an antioxidant, more easily absorbed than cysteine, and is an efficient means for supporting tissue cysteine and glutathione status. i take 150mg 3xday.
 
JKurz1 said:
Just got back from the hemotologist.......she says my low test levels, low wbc was due to liver damage prob. from supplement abuse (ie. excessive b-12, c, a, creatine, etc...) couple with my aas use a few years ago, andro, etc. Good news is it's not fatal, and good news is Im not shut down......bad news is, I got a bunch of gear that Im not sure what to do with..........what would you do?
Click to expand...

Why are you calling this shitty news??? I told you this several months ago when you posted the results. If you don't have scar tissue on your liver, then continue as normal. Glutathione is great for regenerating your liver.. Just use tyler's or some http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/glu.html

What's the problem???
 
yo jkeuz go find another doc and get a second opinion on this not sayin your doc is wrong but this is the tyoe of thing that needs a second opinion and if you ahve never used oralls and dont drink what od you contibute your liver damage to i have used creatine and all sorts of vits and supps and only had slihtly elevated liver enzymes after my recent anavar cycle get your self some good liver supps and take them steadily before your next test
 
I would just stay away from the dbol and any other supplement that may be hazardous. The liver can repair itself remarkably well if you let it. Good luck bro, if you are set on doing a cycle...just run short a Test cycle and then see where it goes from there.
 
JKurz1 said:
If 3/4ths of the bros on this board would have the detailed tests I had done, I guaruntee you'd see the same thing, if not worse...........promise!!!! Good thing I got tested, as I, like you, had ZERO symptoms............
Click to expand...

Did your doctor do a biopsy and/or ultrasound of your liver to determine the extent of the damage? Your liver may not be damaged at all since enzymes can be elevated just from exercize. Your enzyme tests as I remember were less than 2 times normal. Someone with a real issue can have liver enzyme elevation thousands of times greater than normal.

One time I did 3 methyl 17aa's and had sgot http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6320 of 150 after enzyme tests. 3 months later with the use of NAC , glutathione and milk thistle is was back to normal (35 ish)
 
LVTitan said:
yes NAC can be found at supplement store or pharmacy otc. it is helpful in regenerating liver. nac is an antioxidant, more easily absorbed than cysteine, and is an efficient means for supporting tissue cysteine and glutathione status. i take 150mg 3xday.
Click to expand...

Here’s a few other supplements that you may want to look into:

* SAMe (S-adenosyl-L-methionine)

SAMe replenishes important substances in damaged livers and improves the flow of bile. SAMe may be helpful in a variety of liver conditions, including cholestasis, Gilbert’s syndrome, alcoholic liver injury, and cirrhosis.

* Phosphatidylcholine (AKA Lecithin)

PC helps to prevent damage to blood and liver cells by oxidation and guards the liver against fatty deposits.

Hope this is of some help - you should be able to find these supps via google.
 
bros..thanks for all the concern.......it was just a speculation on her part...it was my initial visit to a hematologist, so she's just guessing.........I'm sure it'll be fine.........when I'm given the ok, I know, no orals, no winny............enough said........its gonna be 500mg of test, 400mg of eq, maybe some prop at the beginning and end..........
 
I'm gonna hit GNC tonight simply because my gym brutha works there and I get some sweet deals..........anything they sell that would help or should I just get it over the net?
 
well, boys......just got back from the hemo..............EVERYTHING IS OK..........except my wbs is still on the low side and so is my test..........I'm thinking its overtraining and so is she, as she's ruled out everything else..........could just be my natty levels.......so I gots some questions.........

Is my low test hampering my gains? Am I wasting my time in the gym??
Do I need to increase the cals and/or nix the 20mins of cardio each day (doubt it)
would a basic cycle be good now or do I wait for my weight to go up?
should I just do a maintenance hrt cycle as she wants me to use the patch (which I havent touched in 2 months, just collecting dust)..........K to all of you.....
 
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