Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

RipStone's 5x5-GFH journal

In retrospect, I defintley could have gained a lot more strength if I would have ate more cals, but pure strength is only part of my goal....I want to look nice for the ladies too.

I might use the different rep/set scheme for squats as well. The past 2 weeks I have been doing two triples on friday and omitting the drop set and it has been was working pretty well. Plus, I could use some work with higher loads in order to strengthen more core/stability.

Its good to know that the way you are training is endorsed by one of the finest strength coaches in the world :)
 
Sorry I haven't chimed in with any advice, but I'm a bit reluctant to advise you on what to do when I'm still trying to find the best way to deal with my own very similar situation. Basically, I arrived at the same things you and AB did (triples, hope that higher loads would help with core, later progression to 5x5 then 8-rep programs) a couple weeks ago when drawing up a program. My 5x5 was a complete mess; I definitely made the opposite mistake from AB and took it too far after a slowdown was apparent. It's odd (or more likely just an effect of thinking about and applying this type of training theory) that we came up with such similar things independently.

Basically, like madcow, Glenn, and Mark Rippetoe have said, the most important thing is "being your own coach" and applying what you've learned from a cookie-cutter run of the 5x5. It seems like you have a very good idea how your body responds to training. Have more confidence in your ability to create and implement a program that's tailored to your needs and goals.

And, for what it's worth, your plan for squats sounds good. Like AB mentioned, you might want to give the rest of the lifts another week or two to determine if they're actually stalled or if you just had a couple of anomalously bad workouts.
 
RipStone said:
Its good to know that the way you are training is endorsed by one of the finest strength coaches in the world :)
Click to expand...
It's the other way around actually - I'm doing it because he suggested it to someone and I quite liked the idea.
 
cynical simian- thanks for the reply. dont be afraid is give your thoughts. believe me, most everything you guys say really helps.

i am hesistant to take another week or two to see if my lifts have really stalled cus i havent has much progress is 6 weeks actually! 1-2lbs here and there, but nothing like the first 8 weeks of the program.

and you are right on(and thanks for the kind words)....i should know by now how to become my own coach. its just helps tremedously getting advice from people who know more than myself or have been through what i am going through. i will write up something today, most likely, and post it for critque.

anotherbutters- its all the same ;)
 
Sorry to hear about your current situation. Unfortunately I am in no postion to give advice, all I can say is we all have been there and will be there again. Everyone stalls at one point or another, keep a posative attitude, you will get over this hump if you keep at it. You have made some impressive strength gains in just over 2 month's, to be benching 190 for sets of 5 at your age and bodyweight is pretty decent if you ask me.

Aer you sure you weren't just tired and because of that you weren't into it mentally? I know it's tough once you start failing on your lifts but maybe some good sleep, enough food and a posative attitude (if you tell yourself you're not going to make the lift before you even start it, you have already failed) will be enough to get through this set back.
 
I think you need a break. Most of your lifts seem to be dropping or having trouble. Maybe you can get a bit more out of it but maybe not. If this continues for another workout or so, you will have to deload/reset. If you keep piling on fatigue you can really get yourself to a place that is hard to recover from and screws up your training.

If you want to continue, I'd do what I told someone else to do 3 sets of doubles with the weight increase rather than your top set of 5 (probably scale back on the warm ups a bit too). When this fails, drop to two sets of double (6 reps then 4 reps total). Just keep the weight and increases the same as you were doing with 5 reps. Probably not take a ton of time between these doubles if possible.

Either way though I think you are starting to overreach so fatigue alone is going to get to you and sort of self-regulate.

EDIT - I also want to stress that if all your lifts are dying, it's just better to reset. Don't try to milk it too much. If it's just a lift or two, try to keep the sync and buy yourself some time.
 
djeclipse- thanks for the reply. let me clarify, i am motivated to lift, i want to lift and i probabaly think about lifting too much. its just that i cant get into the right mental state in order to have a good workout. i am doing the things you suggested....believe me bro :)

madcow- thanks for the reply. but now i am confussed, lol. anotherbutters was suggesting not to take a week off, but you are suggesting i do need a break. let me state that i am worried about piling on fatigue and that leading to a serious overtraining condition. so what should i do next? i am thinking that i will take a few days off....maybe not lift until next monday where i would start something new. then the question is what should i do when i do start something new? the route that anotherbutters was suggesting sounded like a good idea. that is, switch up the rep/set schemes and reset the loads at the same time.

BTW, here is a pic I took. The lighting is different, but I can see some progress in my shoulders and width of my back. The old pic(on the right) was taken on 10/16/05 and the new pic was taken today.
 
RipStone said:
i should know by now how to become my own coach. its just helps tremedously getting advice from people who know more than myself or have been through what i am going through. i will write up something today, most likely, and post it for critque.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, the point of my post wasn't to criticize your request for help and say "do it yourself, dammit"; the whole point of this forum is to let people share information and advice. I was just trying to get you away from any remnants of the notion that the only way to approach training is to apply the exact thing someone else did. Ultimately, even though a lot can be gleaned from reading someone's journal, there's only so much that we can know about stuff like nuances of form or subjective impressions of how a set or workout felt that might affect what's best for you.

MC and AB are saying similar things, I think. The "break" wouldn't be a complete cessation of lifting, which is what AB was cautioning against, it'd be a deload.

Oh, and given that a lot of us are non-plat members, would you be able to throw the pic up on pufile or some other external host?
 
RipStone said:
but now i am confussed, lol. anotherbutters was suggesting not to take a week off, but you are suggesting i do need a break. let me state that i am worried about piling on fatigue and that leading to a serious overtraining condition.
Click to expand...

Break in this case = period of lesser load to deal with fatigue, not a vacation. The one thing is that everybody has bad days, make sure it's really fatigue (which is sounds like even though you PR'd in the military). Play it out, use 3 sets of doubles in some lifts if need be to keep your weights scaling on the couple where you might get stick. If symptoms continue over the next few workouts then you take your break/reset/deload whatever.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Just to clarify, the point of my post wasn't to criticize your request for help and say "do it yourself, dammit"; the whole point of this forum is to let people share information and advice. I was just trying to get you away from any remnants of the notion that the only way to approach training is to apply the exact thing someone else did. Ultimately, even though a lot can be gleaned from reading someone's journal, there's only so much that we can know about stuff like nuances of form or subjective impressions of how a set or workout felt that might affect what's best for you.

MC and AB are saying similar things, I think. The "break" wouldn't be a complete cessation of lifting, which is what AB was cautioning against, it'd be a deload.

Oh, and given that a lot of us are non-plat members, would you be able to throw the pic up on pufile or some other external host?
Click to expand...

My bad. I guess I came off as a bit of an ass. I completley understood what you were saying and that is exactly how I intrepeted it. You just put it into a lot better words than I did :)

I see. So I need to deload. So now what I will do is write a program based on the expiernce I gained via SF 5x5. The program will be will be similar to what AB suggested, but tailored towards my individual needs. Moreover, I will start the program with a deload(or ramping the weights up from below what my current RMs are).

I dont get it man? You cant get your microscope out to look at my pics? :D I am not a platnium member either BTW. Here is a link to a putfile.com page. I havent used this site before so I hope this works..

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1816055989.jpg&s=x11

EDIT: As I was typing this and getting the pic uploaded I got Madcow's reply. So again I am confussed(I sound like an idiot but I am not). So I dont I reset the loads now and I just use 3 sets of doubles after warming up suffiecently and continue following the orginal SF 5x5 program??? (breath...)
 
Also keep in mind that when you are struggling and crawling along in sets of 5, a 1 rep increase has a lot more value than you think.


100x4 = 400
100x5 = 500
25% increase in work performed during the set

100x4 yields a 1RM of 109.1
100x5 yields a 1RM of 112.5
Basically 3% increase on a 1RM

It's important to realize that progress just doesn't come in leaps and bounds where you are PRing by 5lbs every week and not hitting the limit. Even 3 weeks of new PRs increasing by 2.5% is 102.50, 105.06, 107.68. That's 7.68% on your lifts. That's great even if you spent 4 weeks scaling. I don't know many who wouldn't trade 7 weeks total for an 8% increase on their lifts.

I think people see PR's all over the place and assume they are going to set them for most of the year and that's just not the case. Like I said, even that 1 rep has a nice impact on your 1RM so when it seems like you are crawling along, you are really still in the game.
 
RipStone said:
EDIT: As I was typing this and getting the pic uploaded I got Madcow's reply. So again I am confussed(I sound like an idiot but I am not). So I dont I reset the loads now and I just use 3 sets of doubles after warming up suffiecently and continue following the orginal SF 5x5 program??? (breath...)
Click to expand...

Only you can answer this. Are you really fatigued or is this just an off day or so (you did PR the military, your squat is moving from what I recall, the dead might be a sign of a problem). If you are still moving forward on most lifts, even at a crawl (like I illustrated above), you are fine, use a rep change or drop warm ups to keep your top sets going until your other lifts stall. If everything is stalled or you determine that fatigue is indeed an issue, you will have to reset and possibly take a light week in between if you think you will need it (i.e. what is the severity).
 
RipStone said:
My bad. I guess I came off as a bit of an ass.
Click to expand...

Haha, my concern was that I was the one who came off like an ass. Now that we've formally established that nobody misunderstood anything or took offense... :p

If you're unsure of your level of fatigue and how to proceed, don't try to make any dramatic changes with tomorrow's workout. After that, you'll have another data point on which to base your judgments and the weekend to assess things and determine what to do in the weeks ahead.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Haha, my concern was that I was the one who came off like an ass. Now that we've formally established that nobody misunderstood anything or took offense... :p

If you're unsure of your level of fatigue and how to proceed, don't try to make any dramatic changes with tomorrow's workout. After that, you'll have another data point on which to base your judgments and the weekend to assess things and determine what to do in the weeks ahead.
Click to expand...


Lol.

Thanks man, thats a good idea actually. The only problem is that if I am in a serious or approaching a state of fatigue, one more session might put me over the edge or at least have me hanging my a thread. I will see how I feel tommorow and then proceed from there.

Madcow- again, thanks for all your help. What you are saying makes perfect sense. I will play it be ear and use tommorows workout as a barometer for how to proceed in the upcoming weeks.

BTW, what did you guys think of the pics and did the putfie link work??
 
Madcow2 said:
It worked. Very noticable increase in size. How many weeks between shots?
Click to expand...


Awsome! I am glad to hear that. It's hard to judge yourself, even when looking at pics.

The old pic, on the right,was taken on 10-25-05. The new shot, on the left, was taken today. So like 11-12 weeks.

EDIT: I meant 2005, not 2004.
 
Last edited:
RipStone said:
Awsome! I am glad to hear that. It's hard to judge yourself, even when looking at pics.

The old pic, on the right,was taken on 10-25-04. The new shot, on the left, was taken today. So like 11-12 weeks.
Click to expand...

10-25-05 (it's 2006 now as unbelievable as that is) :)
 
Wow...this is my first time through reading this journal. There is a lot of great information here regarding what to do at the end of a run, as well as what truly qualifies as fatigue and overreaching. I have a question, though.

Madcow2, what is the theoretical training value of increasing the intensity and reducing the volume? We go from 5x5, to 3x3, and now you are suggesting 3x2 and 2x2? At this point, we are heavily in the neural ranges, so are we technically simultaneously deloading in the sarcoplasmic and sarcomeric ranges? Is that the actual purpose?

Subsequently (and theoretically), I can see that once the 2x2 stalls and the CNS is fatigued, we are jumping back into a deloaded 5x5. This deloaded 5x5 will serve to restore the CNS, as well as continue to restore any remaining fatigue in the sarcomeric and especially sarcoplasmic ranges. Is my understanding on this correct?
 
nelmsjer said:
Wow...this is my first time through reading this journal. There is a lot of great information here regarding what to do at the end of a run, as well as what truly qualifies as fatigue and overreaching. I have a question, though.

Madcow2, what is the theoretical training value of increasing the intensity and reducing the volume? We go from 5x5, to 3x3, and now you are suggesting 3x2 and 2x2? At this point, we are heavily in the neural ranges, so are we technically simultaneously deloading in the sarcoplasmic and sarcomeric ranges? Is that the actual purpose?

Subsequently (and theoretically), I can see that once the 2x2 stalls and the CNS is fatigued, we are jumping back into a deloaded 5x5. This deloaded 5x5 will serve to restore the CNS, as well as continue to restore any remaining fatigue in the sarcomeric and especially sarcoplasmic ranges. Is my understanding on this correct?
Click to expand...

You are getting 2 things mixed:

5x5=25 reps, 3x3 = 9 reps
So 5x5 at 85% (or 85lbs to be simple) = 2125lbs
And 3x3 at 90% (90lbs) = 810lbs

Much lower workload and this is what allows for recovery in deloading. What we are doing is allowing intensity to rise (but volume is slashed and maybe frequency lowered) but intensity is not enough to offset the slash in volume.

What I've suggested above is actually the same volume or just 1 more rep (i.e. 5 reps vs. 3x2 = 5 reps). The intensity will be constant at first but the doubles will give him a margin to increase it as the reps are spread out. Keep in mind that all heavy weights have a big neural emphasis but the reason why they say they are bad or not good for hypertrophy is because of low workload implied in using very high intensities (i.e. you can't do a lot of work with very heavy weight - it's an inverse relationship). Here we keep workload constant and intensity is the same as what was used in 5 reps (I'm just making it easier on him by manipulating with time and breaking the reps appart). This will not be deloading, will probably push him further into fatigue as it will allow him to do more. That's why he needs to figure out if he is indeed overreaching or not. Maybe read through some of my posts and Biggt's in this thread as it goes into more detail and specifically why Waterbury's 10 sets of 3 program is very good for hypertrophy despite it using triples which are traditionally thought of as neural: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=453191
 
I had no idea 3 x 2 = 5. Thanks, MC. Now I know why I sucked at mathematics.
 
Madcow2 said:
If you want to continue, I'd do what I told someone else to do 3 sets of doubles with the weight increase rather than your top set of 5 (probably scale back on the warm ups a bit too). When this fails, drop to two sets of double (6 reps then 4 reps total). Just keep the weight and increases the same as you were doing with 5 reps. Probably not take a ton of time between these doubles if possible.
Click to expand...

Gosh, dang it. Ignore my previous post completely. I missed the bolded portion from a previous post completely. You are saying replace the final top set of 5 ONLY...

I read it as: time period of 5x5, then time period of 3x2, then time period of 2x2. And I'm thinking, "Madcow is all about workload (among other factors, obviously), so why is he so drastically reducing workload for so long? And why is he taking people into the neural range for so long? And why...? And why...?"

Yeah. I'm only a little embarrassed. I'll go now.
 
week 14, friday

I'll start with some comments;

The good news: I had a lot more energy today and my mental focus was way up. I can attribute this to....

a) I did not do cardio on tuesday or thursday and I usually do cardio on one of those days(sometimes both). I omitted the cardio as a result of being tired and thinking that I could use the extra recovery.

b) I was excited to do something a little different.

The bad news...

I probabaly messed up Madcow's suggestions in regards to rep/set schemes and load selections. I guess you guys can tell me how bad I messed these up. :)

bench press(did these first cus the squats rack were in use [cough] curlers [cough]):

-bar x8(warmup)
-95x5
-135x5
-155x5
-175x5
-200x2x3(all these reps were really good. BUT, should I have dont three doubles or only two. I am thinking only two cus a normal friday I would have done just one triple so I actually increased the volume, BUT I omitted the back off set.)


squat:
-bar x8
-135x5
-185x5
-215x5
-255x2x2( the first set was really good form and i had 1-2 reps left in me with good form too. the 2nd rep of the second set i kinds GMed the ascend a little too much, again, I only did two doubles here cus I was confussed on the rep/set paramemeter).

row:
-70x5
-90x5
-115x5
-130x5
-150x2x2(my form was really good on these.)

dips supersetted with curls for time purposes:

-dips: BWx10x3
-curls: 25sx10x3

I decided not add weight to the dips in order to dampen any fatigue I might have in me. My goal for both dips and curls was to just get 3 sets of 10 reps using perfect form....I suceeded :)


one more comment: I guess my fatigue wasnt as bad as a I thought. Just needed a few days of sitting mon my ass for recovery....it helped. So that should answer some questions on how to proceed with my training.
 
Hmmm, well when I said 3 sets of doubles I was really thinking in place of the main sets of 5 (Monday really). I didn't really think about this particular template and the Friday triple. I'd probably just do a triple if you can get it and if not a double. Not really sure. Maybe omit the heavy set and just do the warmups and backoff work. You will have to make the call on this one and see what you want to do.
 
Great job, ripstone, both for your numbers today and for putting up with the thread hijack (although it was an educational one!) :)
 
madcow2- i was thinking to somehow increase volume on mon vs. fri. (ie; friday do 200x2x2, monday do 205x2x3 or 200x2x3). I am not sure how omitting the hevay set on friday would work cus then I would not have a gauge for what load to work with on monday.

BTW, do you think the 3x2 path is the right way to go now that I know that my fatigue maybe wasnt as bad as I intinally thought??

nelmsjer- thanks. it wasnt a hijack at all. i always learn from others comments.
 
If you can progress with 5's, do it.

You need to think about workload. How does 3x2 on Monday and 2x2 on Friday compare? Common sense tells me that they are both increases over your previous 1x5 and 1x3. This will be marginally more fatiguing. This wasn't to combat fatigue, this was to provide additional progression for a problem lift or two.
 
Madcow2 said:
If you can progress with 5's, do it.

You need to think about workload. How does 3x2 on Monday and 2x2 on Friday compare? Common sense tells me that they are both increases over your previous 1x5 and 1x3. This will be marginally more fatiguing. This wasn't to combat fatigue, this was to provide additional progression for a problem lift or two.
Click to expand...

Its always makes more sense when you say it, even though I intuitively know it. Thanks.
 
What do you guys think of this...run Westside for 6 weeks(two three week microcycles) in order to work on some week areas. Then, starrt SF 5x5 again from scratch. Besides wanting to work on a few weak areas, I think it would be good for me to get away from the 3 main lifts in order to prevent any injuries cus I am starting to have some hip discomfort. Also, I think a new program would be a good change mentally.....get me really excited to be in the gym again.
 
Running Westside for 6 weeks certainly isn't going to harm you at all. Remember madcow's advice, though. At the end of the day, your departure from the big lifts will have been beneficial if the big lifts go up when you return to them. WSB can help you work on your speed in the lifts, which may help your SF 5x5.

They are both good programs. Go for it.
 
I don't buy the injuries argument, but it sounds like you really want a mental change from the 5x5, and that's understandable. With any program switch, just make sure that whatever you're doing is serving a purpose and making you stronger (as indicated by effects on the big compound lifts) rather than allowing illusory "progress" simply because you're doing different exercises. With that said, it sounds like you've considered this stuff and made a good choice with Westside.
 
Make sure to have a decent grasp on westide before starting. It ain't rocket scinec but it is something that is pretty easy to screw up. Just be sure to keep your workload in the ballpark of what you're doing now, and make sure the movements you choose are appropriate for your weaknesses/goals. I.E. don't do board presses if your weakness on bench is at the bottom - doesn't really get you anywhere. I've got a nifty WSB article collection I could e-mail you. PM me if you want it (it's the one Anthrax Invasion and silver shadow have).

I'm sure that's common sense for you, but I suppose it bears repeating.

FWIW I'll be running WSB in about two weeks so it'll be interesting to see what happens to each of us.
 
Thanks for the replies fellas. It helps verify some of my thoughts. I have a pretty good understanding of the WS principles, but knowing more can't hurt. That would be great if you could e-mail me the aticles G5.0. Check your PM box.

I certainly hope the lifts I choose will benifit the big 3. I mean that is my intentions and I am picking lifts that will help with my weak areas which are upper and lower back, speed from the hole, and speed off my chest. I want to get away from doing the big 3 directly for a little while as well.

Here is the routine I put together. Open to any critque...

mon-ME upper:
-medium-close grip paused bench press, work up to a triple (horizontal push)
-one hand DB rows (horizontal pull)
-30* incline DB press (horizontal push)
-sitting rope race pulls (horizontal pull)

wed-DE lower:
-speed box squats, 8x3(should I do a wave?) (push)
-bent-knee GMs (pull)
-one-legged leg press (push)
-abs

fri- DE upper:
-speed decline bench press (horizontal push)
-narrow grip chins(vertical pull)
-standing OH BB press (vertical push)
-isolation triceps, biceps, rear delts

sat-ME lower:
-rack pull done just below knee height, work up to a triple (pull)
-DB steps ups (push)
-GHRs (pull)
-abs

All supplemental work will be done using undulating periodization and short of failure. My goal is to get all the reps in for each set.

week 1: 3x10(30)
week 2: 7x4(28)
week 3: 4x8(32)

I think the volume is pretty low which should be good for me cus I have come to realize I need more recovery.
 
I sort of think that westside is for the advanced lifter although saying that you sound like you need a change.
In a Westside routine you need to focus on your weakness. That means if you have weak
triceps hitting board presses with mixed grips at you sticking point.
Or hitting partial deads to blast through you sticking pont at your dead if you have one.

Have a look at the extended russian routine on this page
http://freespace.virgin.net/jamie.k/russian.htm
It is about half way down the page and still focusses on the 3 main lifts (which is what I would do at your developing stage) at different intensities week by week as well as throwing some assistance work in.
 
donny43 said:
I sort of think that westside is for the advanced lifter although saying that you sound like you need a change.
In a Westside routine you need to focus on your weakness. That means if you have weak
triceps hitting board presses with mixed grips at you sticking point.
Or hitting partial deads to blast through you sticking pont at your dead if you have one.

Have a look at the extended russian routine on this page
http://freespace.virgin.net/jamie.k/russian.htm
It is about half way down the page and still focusses on the 3 main lifts (which is what I would do at your developing stage) at different intensities week by week as well as throwing some assistance work in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I checked it out and it looks like a great program, but not something I wanna run at this time in my progress. I wanna get away from doing the big 3 cus I have been doing them for 14 straight weeks without any devation. I think it would be a good idea to get away from them for a little while.

FYI, I have a very good idea of how WS works and what the purpose of running a WS template is. I have read many articles at elite by Dave Tate, Jim W., Louie Simmons, etc.

I have to disagree with you on the point that WS is for the advanced lifter only. I have seen Louie say that even a begginner can run WS, athough by begginner I am sure he means a begginer PLer, and not a total newb to lifting.
 
Hey Rip, Personally I think your program looks really good.....I would be doing more volume if it were me but I have a good recovery rate, and at that volume you have you will be able to recover nicely.


Question:
Do you plan on changing your ME movement every 2-3 weeks so you can keep progressing in lifts?????? I think its a much better Idea to switch the ME movement and do different lifts to assist on lifts you wanna help....
 
Thanks for the comments YS. To answer your question, I was planning on running WS for 6 weeks and switching ME lifts every 3 weeks(so 2x during the 6 week cycle). But as always, I have to play this by ear.

BUMP for any other suggestions, thoughts, etc on running WS for 6 weeks and then going back to SF 5x5. Also, how does the WS routine look? Finally, any one check out my pic? :)
 
I'm not sold on rack pulls - they seem like an ego booster without much real carryover to full pulls. But I haven't done 'em personally. just basing that opinion on what others have said.
 
RipStone said:
Finally, any one check out my pic? :)
Click to expand...
I can definitely see the difference. Are you sure you're only 166lbs? :) Looking good. I'm up to 180 and my shoulders and arms are nowhere near as developed. I guess I must, er, carry my weight elsewhere.
 
Re: pic
your shoulders have improved dramatically. Like AB siad, being lean is so helpful - you got quite a v-taper going. My back is huge but my love handles make it look kinda unimpressive when I'm shirtless. But I look damn good in clothes :p
 
g5.0- i was debating whether to do rack pulls or sumo deadlifts. i opted for the rack pulls cus i wanted to get away from directly doing the big 3 i have been dong via SF 5x5. but, i agree that there isnt much carryover from RPs to DLs. i was doing them to strengthen my upper and lower back more than anything. BUT, i am beggining to have some doubts...hmmm?

about the pic, thanks for checking it out. my shoulders are looking a lot bigger in my clothes too, which is nice. people can tell i actually workout now...i hope. i have always had a good v-taper...genetics.

AB- yea, i am 166lbs, but thats awsome that i look bigger! i will have to take some other shots and post them, but not now cus i just ate like 2lbs of veggies, lol :D
 
I've been comparing background objects trying to figure out whether you're just generally thicker (in a good way) in the new pic or if the camera placement is just a bit different. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the first since everything in the program demands/promotes core strength. Regardless, the 5x5 has definitely done good things for the size and definition of your shoulders and back.
 
I've been reading this for over an hour and all I can say is: wow! You're doing pretty much exactly what I want to do. I'm really glad to see that you saw success with the 5x5. This has inspired me to start one of my own. I only hope that I achieve the results you did.

Way to go man, nice work. :)
 
In the confusion that I created earlier in your post, I neglected to mention your picture! LOL...sorry about that.

As cynical symian said, you definitely have an overall thicker look, especially in the shoulders, but also noticable in the back and traps. Good job, and keep gaining!
 
cynical simian- its hard to take the exact same shot man. i am no pro photographer, lol. i did take the shot in the same room, but as another butters noticed, i am a little closer to the camera in the left(new) shot. i could tell cus i could see less of my head.

dposey- thanks for the kind words. thats awsome that i was able to insipre someone to start the program(blushes). just stay consistent and dedicated to the program and you will have really good results too.

nelmsjer- thanks man. i am really happy that other people gain notice size gains. that was part of my goal. the other part, and IMO the more important part in terms of my long term success, was gaining a solid base of strength in the core lifts. plus, learning the core lifts too.

i am off to the gym in a little bit to start the WS template. hope it goes well.
 
Westside, Monday, Week 1: ME Upper Body

-ME lift: medium grip paused bench press
-bar x10 (warmup)
-85x5
-100x5
-120x3
-135x3
-150x3
-165x3
-180x2.5 (FUCK! I am an idiot. I got cocky and tried for too much on my first week and failed locking it out. I was so damn close to locking out too. Anyway, I peformed these with my index finger on the middle rings of the bar, so they were semi-closed grip....I guess medium grip. I also, did a 3 second pause at the bottom. I did not rest the bar on my chest. I hovered it right above my chest instead....thats the best I can describe it. Oh yea, so I ask this dude for a spot( I know what you are thinkin, not this again....). But wait, I tell him that "I am gonna pause at the bottom so it might look like I am screwed, but I am not, so dont....'' He just interupts and says, "I wont touch the bar unless you tell me to." I am thinking to myself, will you marry me?...LOL! J/K. Unfortutantley, I had to tell hom to help me lock it out....damn!)

one-handed DB rows:
-60s x10x3 (like I said in another post, for the assistance work I am gonna choose a weight where I can get all the reps in without having to switch weights.)

30* DB press:
-60s x10x3 (these flew up...I was impressed with myself :) )

standing rope face pulls:
-30 x 10x3 (I intially was gonna do sitting face pulls, but I have never done these standing so I figured what the heck.)

comments: I am fighting a wee bit of a cold, but other than a scratchy throat I feel pretty good. Menal ntensity was pretty high today too. I gotta admit, I kinda liked getting a little bit of a pump, even though I know it doesnt mean shit. Finally, this workout only took like 40mins.
 
Westside, Wednesday, Week 1: DE Lower Body

DE lift: speed bod squats:
-145x3x8

(I rest 45 seconds in between sets. I figured 145lbs is about 50% of my 1 RM for squat, based on what I know my 5 RM is. I might use more weight next week though. I peformed these to a box that is raised by 2 sets of 45lbs plates. In other words, the plates are under the box. I am not sure if I should lose the plates or not. I know different box squat heights will achieve different results. My goal is to get more speed out of the hole, so I think I should use a lower box posistion, right?)

bent knee GMs:
-bar x 6(warm up)
-95x10 (too light)
105x10x2 (good stuff here. I just need to remember to reset and push back after I am done with every rep.)

1-legged leg press:
-2 plates x 10 (too light)
-2 plates+25s x10 x2

(This is the first time ever doing these. Tougher than I thought! I liked them though and I could really feel my core stablizing my body through the ROM. I very important thing I did learn....my right leg is A LOT stronger than my left. I mean it's night and day. I could have done 20 reps with my right leg and struggled to do 10 reps with my left. Whassupwithdat?!?)

Abs: 6 sets of various exercises

additonal comments: fighting a little bit of a cold. I think this caused me to sweat a lot more than normal. Otherwise, a decent workout with many wierd looks by fellow gym-goers :D
 
RipStone said:
... a decent workout with many wierd looks by fellow gym-goers :D
Click to expand...
The true sign of a good day at a commercial gym.

Re: box height. To help out of the hole, I tend to think you'd wanna be at least as low as the bottom of your squat, if not a little lower (if possible). You still squat pretty wide, right?
 
Guinness5.0 said:
The true sign of a good day at a commercial gym.

Re: box height. To help out of the hole, I tend to think you'd wanna be at least as low as the bottom of your squat, if not a little lower (if possible). You still squat pretty wide, right?
Click to expand...

Haha, indeed!

Thanks for the advice. I'll try it out next week.

Yea, I am still using a PLing stance. Why?
 
Westside, Friday, Week 1, DE Upper-body

DE-lift; Speed Decline Bench Press

-115x3x8

(30-45 seconds rest inbetween sets, nice and fast off my chest)

chins
-BW x10 (few reps left in reserve)
-BW x9 (1 rep short of failure)
-BW x7+ 3 (1 rep short of failure with the intial 7 reps, rested 20 seconds and did the last 3 reps. I dunno why I couldnt do 3 sets of 10 good reps....I should be able to do this considering the first set was a piece of cake. Plus, I rested 2:00-2:30 mins between sets in order to get all the reps in...or so I planned....hmmm?)

Standing OH BB press

-85x10x3 (really happy with these)

bent over rear delt raises

-15sx10x3 :)

parallel bar dips ( I was planning on doing pushdowns, but I just dont like isolataion work....feels like I am wasting my time, so I did these upright to work the triceps a little more. I usually do them leaning foward more)

-BW x 12
-BWx 10
-BW x 6( WTF! My chest and triceps got a huge pump...damn! I shouldn't have done 12 reps for the first set. I should have just done 3 sets of 10 reps.... damn ego)

sitting DB curls

-20sx 10x3 (went real conservative w/ the weight selection here. I almost feel like these are a waste of time)

additonal comments I am not too sure about all this RE work. I really prefer moving heavy weight using more sets and less reps (ala SF 5x5). But, this should be good for me....I hope.
 
RipStone said:
.

Yea, I am still using a PLing stance. Why?
Click to expand...
Jsut wondering. Box squats are best for a PL stance, or at least better for PL style than Oly style.

BTW - why are you decline benching? My hunch is you really don't get much benefit by using DE stuff outside of the plane of intended use - DE work is basically best used to improve neural efficiency, so you'd want to replicate the movement you're trying to improve upon. Notice that WSB DE stuff is pretty much always box squats, speed deads, and benches w/ varying grip. You almost never see deviation from those movements (at least I haven't - could be wrong).
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Jsut wondering. Box squats are best for a PL stance, or at least better for PL style than Oly style.

BTW - why are you decline benching? My hunch is you really don't get much benefit by using DE stuff outside of the plane of intended use - DE work is basically best used to improve neural efficiency, so you'd want to replicate the movement you're trying to improve upon. Notice that WSB DE stuff is pretty much always box squats, speed deads, and benches w/ varying grip. You almost never see deviation from those movements (at least I haven't - could be wrong).
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out man. Intitially, I chose decline bench for DE lift cus I havent changed the angle for any BB bench press exercise is such a long time....that was my reasonsing at least. But, what you are saying completley blows that out the windown, so next week I will do flat bench press for my DE lift. Thanks again man.

BTW, ever since I started WS my journal gets no love. I know the title says 5x5, but I figured I would keep the same journal since everyone already knows me from it.
 
BTW, ever since I started WS my journal gets no love. I know the title says 5x5, but I figured I would keep the same journal since everyone already knows me from it.[/QUOTE]

I know for me personally i've never ran ws routine. so when i read your journal i have nothing to relate it to because it is so different from the 5x5. I plan on running a ws routine probably after korte so i am reading your progress and will probably have questions soon enough :)
Also, is there another resource besides whats in the sticky for ws. something more in depth than just what to do each workout? thanks
 
enigma4dub said:
Also, is there another resource besides whats in the sticky for ws. something more in depth than just what to do each workout? thanks
Click to expand...
Check out elitefts.com

Hey RIp, I'm fairly sure what I told you is accurate, but not 100% - it's just what I've extrapolated from always seeing the same DE movements in just about every WSB program I come across. So maybe MC2 or Chambewy or Majutsu (or any of our WSB-literate bros) could confirm/dispute those thoughts.
 
enigma4dub said:
ripstone said:
BTW, ever since I started WS my journal gets no love. I know the title says 5x5, but I figured I would keep the same journal since everyone already knows me from it.
Click to expand...

I know for me personally i've never ran ws routine. so when i read your journal i have nothing to relate it to because it is so different from the 5x5.
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking. When some of the others started Korte and HST, I made the time to read up on them so that I could follow their journals. But from what I've read about Westside, it's all about working on your weaknesses, not following a specific set of exercises. It just takes more effort to follow your journal, that's all. But I'm still here and I'm sure lots of others are.

It's good you're trying something new. It gives me the chance to learn about it too :)
 
enigma- hopefully I can show ya a thing or two, hehe :D elitefts is an awsome site. if you are new to WS principles, read the article "8 keys" by Dave Tate. but be warned, its lenghty....well worth the time of course.

g50-I'll look into it, but what you are saying makes perfect sense and I remember reading that somewhere anyway.

AB- thats cool man. i'll be running 5x5 again pretty soon anyway. hopefully my weaknesses are fixed by then, so i can add some more LBs to my RMs. then i can develop more weaknesses to work on....o fun! :)
 
Westside, Week 1, Saturday, ME-Lower Body

sumo-deadlifts: (Some of you might recall that I orginally planned to do below-knee height rack pulls for my ME-lift. But upon further thinking, I decided DLs were the way to go cus rack pulls are much more of an upper body exercise and really dont have the best carry-over for DLs. As they say, you wanna get strong at [enter lift name here] do that lift.

-105x10 (SLDLs/warmup)
-135x5
-165x5
-195x3
-225x3
-245x3 (this set flew up and I got a really big adrenaline rush as a result)
-275x3(first rep was a little slow, but the rest were good)
-300x3-------> PR!! (I was checking my form for all these sets via a window on the left of me and my form held up pretty damn well with this set. Also, I was really inspired after watching a World Strongest Man re-run yesterday. These dudes were DLing a fucking conversion van!)

DB step-ups: (the step was knee-height)

-30sx10x3 (went real conservative with the load selection. These got my heart going)

Glute-ham raises: (performed on a lat pulldown seat)

-BWx10x3 (I did touch and go with these. That is, I touched the floor a little on the way down and then went back up pulling with my posteior chain. I am gonna have to switch exercises next week cus I dunno how I would add weight to these)

abs: 6 sets of various exercises (who really cares).

additional comments: really intense workout today. I am so happy I pulled 300! Also, I bought some Chuck Taylor's and DLed in them today....huge differnce.
 
djeclipse- thanks man. I am glad to see PRs too :)

AB- well thats the thing. I was doing DLs with my neck turned 45* to the left. But, while I was doing them my favorate trainer told me my form looked excellent, but maybe next time I should do them with a full 90* "Exorcist" head spin! I KID, I KID!!
 
anotherbutters said:
I can't help but think that deadlifting a PR weight with your head turned to one side isn't going to do your spine any favours.
Click to expand...

I hope you know I was kidding around before :mix:
 
Westside, Monday, Week 2: ME Upper Body

-ME lift: medium grip paused bench press;
-bar x12 (warmup)
-85x5
-100x5
-120x3
-135x3
-150x3
-165x3
-180x3----> PR!! (feeling real strong today on these, so since everyone in the room looked rather, well, not 'spotter worthy', I just went ahead and did these solo. I fucking raped them! I felt like I had another 3 reps left in reserve. BTW, these was the same weight as last week where I struggled to lock out the 3rd rep...and didnt.)

one-handed DB rows:

-80s x4x7 (like I said in my orginal plan, I am undulating the assistance rep/set schemes. this week is 7x4. all sets well short of failure, but still got a good pump going...if thats means anything?)

30* DB press:

-80s x4x7 (the first few reps were a littls shaky just cus I am not used to using DBs, especially heavier DBs. Needless to say, I got all my reps in without reaching failure for any set. )

standing rope face pulls:

-30 x 12x3 (I didnt use 7x4 for these cus I read in a WS article that you should do face pulls using 10-15 reps. So I used the same weight as last week, but did 2 more reps for each set.)

additional comments: good workout this morning. mental intensity wasnt all there, but I still met all my goals. also, I rested 90-120secs inbetween supplemetary work. Kinda got the idea Chad Waterbury's 10x3...)
 
nlmsjer- naw dude, that a fair question. yes, i am pausing on all 3 reps. i have to admit though on my last rep for 180 i probabaly only had a 2 second pause(blush).

AB- thanks. i guess it was a PR cus I have never done this much weight with the technique of bench press....but i have only been doing it for 2 weeks.

yea, i feel great man.
 
RipStone said:
nlmsjer- naw dude, that a fair question. yes, i am pausing on all 3 reps. i have to admit though on my last rep for 180 i probabaly only had a 2 second pause(blush).

AB- thanks. i guess it was a PR cus I have never done this much weight with the technique of bench press....but i have only been doing it for 2 weeks.

yea, i feel great man.
Click to expand...
Where do you pause, at the top or botom of the bench press?
 
djeclipse said:
Where do you pause, at the top or botom of the bench press?
Click to expand...

Yea, exactly. Bring the bar down like normal and right before it hits your body you pause for 3 seconds. Then, explode to the lock out.
 
RipStone said:
Yea, exactly. Bring the bar down like normal and right before it hits your body you pause for 3 seconds. Then, explode to the lock out.
Click to expand...

So it never touches your chest? Just 1" above?
 
djeclipse said:
So it never touches your chest? Just 1" above?
Click to expand...

Like millimeters above my chest actually. I kinda hover it right over my chest, lower abs area. BTW, I do this cus I used to tend to bounce the bar off my chest. So, if you could do pause benches(or any bench press actually) with out the bouncing issue like I used to have, then let the bar touch, pasue, and go.
 
Westside, Wednedsay, Week 2, DE-Lower Body

DE lift; Speed Squats: (wanted to do speed box squats, but the 2 boxes my gym own have mysteriously disapeared....WTF!)

-145 x 3 x 8 (felt good. I paused for like 2-3 seconds in the hole and then exploded up. Kinda bummed about the box(or lack thereof) though :( )

1-legged leg press:

-4 plates x 4
-4 plates+ 25s x 4 (too heavy)
-4 plates x 4 x 5 (these make me sweat like crazy)

bent-knee good mornings:

-95x5(warm-up)
-125 x 4 x 3 (these felt really akward today, so I decided to ditch them and finish out my sets with SLDLs. I think low rep GMs are not for me at this point in the game.)

so.....

SLDLs:

-205 x 4 x 4 (real conservative with the weight. I havent done these in a reallllly long time.)

Abs: 8 sets

additional comments: Wierd workout today. First of all, I spent the first 10mins running around the gym like a mad man looking for the damn boxes. I asked 2 different trainers cus you would think they would know where the gym equipment is....but NO! They both told me to look in two different places and you know how that ended up. Why cant people just put things back where they belong!? Also, it was wierd cus my iPod wasnt working. I am so used to listening to music when I lift that not listening to music today kinda got me out of sinc. Overall, an ok workout.

RANT: Today it seemed like every where I looked there was some dude using way too much weight and doing [enter exercise here] with an inch of ROM. I can't stand it! I know we are all guilty of letting our egos get to us every once in a while, but some guys just dont get it. YET(and here's the kicker) some of these dudes are BIG MFers. So, whazzupwitdat?
 
Westside, Friday, Week 2, DE-Upper body

DE lift: flat BB bench press: (various grip)

-135 x3 x8 (I used a variety of grips today and also switched to flat bench instead of decline cus of the advice Guniess5.0 gave me. I used a higher intensity today as well. One thing I noticed was I am faster with a medium-close grip vs. a wider grip. So I think this tells me that my chest is a weak point, correct? If so, any ME lifts or supplementary lifts I can do to bring up this weak point?)

chins/pullups:

-BW+20 x4 x4 (these were done with a hammer grip)

-BW x4 x3 (these were done with a palms facing away wide grip)

standing overhead BB press:

-95x5 (warm-up)

-115 x4 x7 (all of these were taken down so that they almost touched my upper chest. I should have used more weight I think cus I had a lot left in me for even the last 2-3 sets).

*beach work done at 3x10-12 instead of 7x4. the goal here was trying to use more weight or do more reps than last week.

bent over rear delts raises:

-15s x12 x2 (+ 2 reps from last week)
-15s x10 (same as last week)

seated DB skullcrushers: ( last week I did dips, but i really pounded my chest on monday so I wanted to ease off a bit on the chest involvment today.)

-40x12 (kinda light)
-50x10
-50x9

seated DB curls:

-25s x 10 (+5lbs from last week, same reps)
-25s x 9 (+5lbs from last week, -1 rep)
-20s x 10 (same)

additonal comments: was a little bit in a daze when I first got to the gym, but I woke up and had a pretty decent workout.

story time with Rip: I really wish I was making this up, but I am not. While I was doing OH press I see these two guys doing "squats" in the power rack. They started with 135lbs and were probabaly reaching parallel, so I was like maybe they know their shit. NOPE! After a few more sets this one dude puts 225lbs on and proceeds to bend his knees...it wasnt even a 1/4 squat. But heres the kicker. The dude didnt have clips on the bar and the weight was completley unbalanced on his back....just picture one of those scales you see at a court house. So I am watching as the 2 plates on the left slowly inch out every time he goes down 4 inches for a rep. At first I was thinking if I should say anything or not cus the guy had a spotter, BUT the spotter was staring out into space probabaly deciding if he should serve mild or medium salsa for his super bowl party. I didnt wanna see this dude get hurt so I say to the spotter, "Man, the weight is falling off on the left, be careful". So he fixes it and the dude does a few more 'reps'. Finally, after this whole thing is over the dude that almost died turns around(I thought he was preparing to thank me for saving his fucking life), but all I get is a dirty look.
 
Westside, Saturday, Week 2, ME-Lower Body

ME-lift: sumo-deadlifts:

-135x8 (SLDLs, warmup)
-155x5
-185x5
-205x3
-235x3
-275x3 (these were slow)
-305x2 (DAMN! these sucked. I probabaly could have gone for 3 and reached my goal, but my form just didnt feel right. I was stiff-legging them a little bit....or a lot, lol. I think this can be attributed to the fact that my upper back is very sore from yesterdays DE-upper body workout.)

ATG squats: (didnt feel like doing DB step-ups)

-135x6 (front squat/warm up)
-185 x 10 x 3 (I dunno why, but these were not that great. The first set felt heavy for some odd reason. The last 2 sets were ok, but still I leaned forward on a few reps.)

GHRs:

-BW x 12 (+2 reps from last week)
-BW x 12 (+2 reps from last week)
-BW x 10 (same)

Abs: 6 sets of various exercises

additonal comments: not too happy with this workout. I know its just one workout and all, so dont think I am jumping the gun, but I am beggining to wonder if WS is the right approach for me at this time in my lifting career. First of all, I question if the DE work is doing anything benifical for me cus I am not that strong in comparisson to a lot guys doing WS...I guess these guys that WS was intended for(the strong ones). Also, I am getting a lot of DOMS, which makes me wonder if I am recovering well. I have added weight/reps to some of my lifts and I know that is what you should ultimatley judge a program on, but I am wondering if the DOMS are gonna impact recover down the line. Finally, its just too easy for me to not follow the routine I had orginally planned. In other words, I need a more structured program(ala SF 5x5). Maybe its a lack of disipline, but its what I feel I need. Any thoughts please?
 
Just a quick update: This week I am figuring out what program to use next, so I am just doing a bunch of core lifts at the gym. BTW, I took a vid of myself doing DLs using my digital camera. Can anyone explain to me how to upload this on my computer?
 
Haha....thats what I did, but I couldnt find a program to upload the video. Is there a certain program I need for this?
 
RipStone said:
Haha....thats what I did, but I couldnt find a program to upload the video. Is there a certain program I need for this?
Click to expand...
I'm not an expert in this but what format is the video in? .avi .mpeg? How big is the file?
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Go to windows movie maker, convert it to wmv, then upload it to putfile.com
Click to expand...

sounds easy enough. i probabaly wont be able to figure it out cus i am a computer tard, but ill give it a shot. thanks man.
 
They work just fine. Wow, how can you workout in that place? It looks like you've found the only oly bar in a sea of machines.

On first viewing the deads, I thought you were extending your legs without moving the bar at the start of the pull. So it looked like your butt was going up, but the angle of your back was getting smaller, so you weren't transfering any power to the bar. But then I realised you lower the bar by bending your knees, rather than using your back. So before you start the next rep, you have to straighten the knees again and lean forwards to get your back back to the starting position.

Have you tried keeping your legs stiff, so you raise and lower the bar with your back? I don't know if it's a cause for concern, but I thought I'd mention it. Hopefully someone else will be able to help a bit more.

The squats look fine to me.
 
AB- thanks for checking out the vids and giving an honest critique. I am not exactly sure what you mean though :) Are you talking about when I am finished a rep and put the weight down. I have always kinda had trouble with that part of the lift.

Thats great that the squats looks fine. The funny thing is that on that set I thought my form wasnt all that great. Specificlly, I had a feeling I was leaning foward too much and that my depth was bad. In fact, I wasnt even gonna count the set. But then I looked at the vid and I realized my form was actually pretty good. I guess thats a good thing cus I have high expectations and it also gives me a lot more confidence that my ability is up to par.

About my gym, yea, there are a lot of machines! But there is actually a room where they have the benches for bench press and DB rack. But even in there guess what, more machines tucked in the corner. :D
 
It's most noticable on the first rep, then you get better, but I don't think it's a big point. I assume sumo deads are like regular deads, where the descent should pretty much mirror the ascent. So on the way up, you keep your back at the same angle whilst extending the legs, then when the bar clears the knees, you push with the hips, straighten the back and lock out. On the way down, you do the reverse - lower using your back first, then the knees.

On the first rep, it looks like you begin the descent by bending the knees, and because you haven't leant forward with your back, it looks like you're having to flare the knees out to get the bar past them. Watch the red colouring on your bottoms.

I wish someone else would reply. Maybe I'm making a fuss over nothing.
 
AB- thanks for the comments. I will be aware of that when I do deadlifts next.

G5.0- I look skinny as heck in the vid for some reason. Maybe its the angle, maybe its cus I am actually skinny. I dunno. But I weight almost 170 and I am 5'8''. I guess I carry my weight well...sorta.
 
Hey guys. I havent updated my journal here in a while, but yes I am still lifting and lifting hard. I am doing a modified WS template and so far so good. Set some new PRs in the last few weeks too.....210x3 for bench press and 275x3 for squat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
how to gain more strength on 5x5 ?
Replies
7
Views
304
ROIDDERS
ROIDDERS
B
Let me know what you think! My 8 weeks workout plan!
Replies
19
Views
3K
Tiger Salman Khan
Tiger Salman Khan
FishyAnchovy
Approved Log My Orals-Only Pre-Cycle LOG
Replies
21
Views
4K
MUSTANG_18
MUSTANG_18
GMAN007
Approved Log My First Cycle Tbol Dbol Log
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Replies
943
Views
72K
MUSTANG_18
MUSTANG_18
YouMirinBrah?
Approved Log My GW Cycle Log
Replies
28
Views
6K
MasonicBodybuilder
MasonicBodybuilder
Top Bottom