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RipStone's 5x5-GFH journal

week 8-thursday

grip work:

-farmers walks; 2 sets w/90lb DBs
-plate pinches: 2 sets w/ two dimes
-static holds: 2 sets w/100lb DBs

cardio: 20min on elliptical

stretching

dje-Next time you should say something man. That is fuckin ridiculous that he consistently asking for a spot for curls. I mean if he has asked you mutiple times, that means he has asked other people too. You gotta speak up cus other people are probably rolling thier eyes at this dude too.

Also, thanks for the detailed routine you posted. I am gonna try some more in-depth stretching during my workout tommorow. I mean on wednesday it seemed to really help. BTW, I usually stretch after cardio only (which was today), so today I added those hip-flexor stretches Jim Ouini linked me to. DAMN I am tight.
 
nice work rip....how has your diet been? Increase in strength? How is your bodyfat? Stats before and now? WOuld love an update!
 
week 8- Friday

(all loads in pounds)

squats: ( I did these 2nd today cus when I got to the gym all the squat racks were being used)
-bar x warmup
-135x5
-155x5
-185x4
-225x3
-245x3-----> TRIPLE (felt nice and deep. The stretching is helping)
-185x8-----> BACK-OFF

bench press: (did these first today)
-barx warmup
-95x5
-140x5
-162x5
-172x5
-192x3----> TRIPLE (pretty damn easy!)
-162X8----> BACK-OFF

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-135x5
-150x3----> TRIPLE
-115X8----> BACK-OFF

parellel bar dips:
-BW+15x10(-1 rep)
-BW+15x9(+1 rep)
-BW+15x7

beach muscle hammer curls:
-30sx 8
-25sx 11
-25sx 8

stability ball push-ups (supersetted with curls):
-BW x8
-BW x8
-BW x8 ( I did these with my elbows in to hit my triceps a little more).

comments: Woke up with a sour stomach, so my workout was affected a little as a result. Still managed to have a decent session though. I was getting a litle tired towards the end, so I cut the isolation triceps work.

questions: I eluded to this before, but I am taking a few days off to go on a trip. When I come back(next thursday) what should I do? Just take the rest of the week off and get back where I left off the following Monday? Or should I re-set the loads when I get back in the gym?

Thanks guys.
 
jkurz- my diet is so-so. What I mean is that I eat very clean, but up until 3 weeks ago I was only eating to maintain my weight(about 3000 calories on lifting days and 2700 on cardio days). I have since increased both those intakes 250-300 cals a day and have been gaining about 1/2lbs a week since. My weight fluctuates though. Last time I weighed in I was 164lbs.

Strength increases...hell yea If you look at the first post of my journal you will see my starting 5 RM's. Here are the numbers based on monday's/wednesday's max sets...

lift......................starting 5RM........current 5 RM
bench press......... 175lbs................190lbs
squat.................. 225................... 245(had to reset these though)
deadlift................ 245.................. 280
row.................... 135....................150
OH press..............115....................125

I havent measured bf% or body parts, but I know I look bigger(have gotten a few comments too) and in the mirror I look just as lean, but I have more size.
 
This isn't based on personal experience since I haven't taken a break since starting this routine (and anotherbutters is certainly the resident expert at taking time off ;) ) but here's my advice.

You should probably do the Friday workout instead of trying to go straight into the program's "heavy day" after a week off. If you're feeling ambitious, you could repeat today's workout next Friday and progress as normal from there. IMO, being conservative and going back a bit (say, doing last Friday's workout next week then this Monday's to begin the following one) would be a better choice.
 
Nice work bro.......very nice! So, gimme an idea of weight gain thus far. Fat %?

What would a typical diet be like for you and isnt it hard to nix most cardio? Werent you used to doing a ton more? Like I said, great work......how long are you in the gym a day?
 
Cynical Simian- thanks for the advice on what to do when I get back. What you suggested makes alot of sense and since another butters didnt dispute you, I am gonna go with your advice.

jkurz1- Weight gain hasn't been too much cus like I said before, up until 3 weeks ago I wasn't eating to grow. I have put on 3-4lbs.

I dont know about body fat % cus I havent checked. Again, I assume its about the same(maybe even less) cus I look just as lean in the mirror, yet I can tell I have more size.

I have played around with my diet over the past year, expermenting with different approaches, etc and I have found that the nutrient timing technique works best for me. Typical liftind day diet looks like this...

6:30am: 1/2c cottage cheese, 1 scoop whey, 3 slices ezkiel bread, 1 homemade protein/bran muffin

train

10am: 1 cup oats, 1 banana, 1 scoop whey, 1 serving berries

noon: 1 cup egg beaters, 1 homemade protein bar, 2 servings of veggies, handful of almonds

4pm: 10oz lean protein(chicken breast, fish, whatever I make), 2 handfulls of walnuts, large salad, 2 fish oil caps

8pm: 1.5c cottage cheese, 2tbsp natural peanut butter, 1/2scoop whey, 2-3 oz lean protein

As far as cardio, I always did about 2-3 cardio sessions a week so that hasnt changed much.

My lifting sessions are 60-80mins. Cardio/grip days are 30-45mins.
 
Question guys- If I by chance go to the gym on my trip, would it be ok to just kinda fuck around....maybe test my 1 RMs? Or would doing so be conuterprodcutive to the progression of the program? The reason I am not sticking to the program if I get to the gym is a) dont have my micro-plates with me b) my friends aren't gonna wanna watch me lift c) cant bring the same metal focus to the gym when my friends are in there just fucking around. Thanks.
 
RipStone said:
I havent measured bf% or body parts, but I know I look bigger(have gotten a few comments too) and in the mirror I look just as lean, but I have more size.
Click to expand...
So, things are obviously working for you. Are the friends you're going to be with some of those that have noticed you getting bigger? If they are, they might be quietly curious as to how you work out.

If it's a case that they're bigger than you and lift more, point out the progress you've made and that you're catching up quickly.

Showing that you're serious about lifting isn't necessarily a bad thing. Pointing out that you've just lifted a weight that you couldn't lift last week and that you're going to lift even more next week is pretty damned impressive. I wouldn't go into details about what you're doing unless they ask. Sticking with the program would mean taking the microweights and trying to get into the right frame of mind, which can be difficult in a different environment.

But, at 19 yrs old, I know peer pressure can be an awkward thing. I don't think playing with a few 1RMs will do any harm (unless you injure yourself). I think doing more volume than you usually do would have more of an impact. Remember that because of specificity, your 1RM won't be as good as it could be at this point in time because you've been training your 5RM.
 
Don't worry too much about having a little fun. It almost goes without saying, but just use common sense: keep the volume low, don't get crushed under a 1RM bench attempt or use poor form to handle more weight, etc.

One other thought: given that you've had some issues with tightness on squats, sneaking off and doing a few light sets of 5 while your buddies are testing their cable pushdown 1RMs might be a good idea. Incorporating some quick stretching each day even though you wouldn't be working out could also help.
 
HOW IS your diet on off days? I'm think about increasing even more....some lower carbs, not sure this is a solid approach............

What about cardio days? Any good routines with Farmers Walks?
 
jkurz-DFT is dual factor training. Basiclly that means you have a loading period where you never really fully recover from your workouts. This period lasts 2-4 weeks generally. Following the loading period comes a deloading period. During a deload you continue to lift, but you lower the volume signfigantly. This allows the body to recover while still being able to lift.

There is a DF version of Madcow's 5x5(I didnt use this when I refered to my DFT).

On off days I increase my fats and lower my carbs. I have a high carb breakfast and then taper my carbs for the rest of the day. So, the only time I really eat starchy carbs are with breakfast. The rest of the day my carbs come from veggies, legumes, fruit(fibourous carb sources).

For cardio days my diet is very similar to lifting days. The exception is that my post-workout meal has slightly less carbs. Since this means I have less caloires, I increase fats for my other meals.

Having said all this about diet, you have to remember that diet is a highly individualized thing. What works for me might not work well for you and vice versa. Dont overthink diet too much. If you are new to training just make sure to eat a lot of clean food so that you can grow. It has taken me a solid year to find a way of eating that my body repsonds well to and I am still tweaking things all the time. I recommend that you do the same. That is, try some things and see what works and what doesnt work. Also, a lot of my ideas on diet come from Dr. John Berardi. Do a search for him and read his stuff.
 
RipStone said:
jkurz-DFT is dual factor training. Basiclly that means you have a loading period where you never really fully recover from your workouts. This period lasts 2-4 weeks generally. Following the loading period comes a deloading period. During a deload you continue to lift, but you lower the volume signfigantly. This allows the body to recover while still being able to lift.

There is a DF version of Madcow's 5x5(I didnt use this when I refered to my DFT).

On off days I increase my fats and lower my carbs. I have a high carb breakfast and then taper my carbs for the rest of the day. So, the only time I really eat starchy carbs are with breakfast. The rest of the day my carbs come from veggies, legumes, fruit(fibourous carb sources).

For cardio days my diet is very similar to lifting days. The exception is that my post-workout meal has slightly less carbs. Since this means I have less caloires, I increase fats for my other meals.

Having said all this about diet, you have to remember that diet is a highly individualized thing. What works for me might not work well for you and vice versa. Dont overthink diet too much. If you are new to training just make sure to eat a lot of clean food so that you can grow. It has taken me a solid year to find a way of eating that my body repsonds well to and I am still tweaking things all the time. I recommend that you do the same. That is, try some things and see what works and what doesnt work. Also, a lot of my ideas on diet come from Dr. John Berardi. Do a search for him and read his stuff.
Click to expand...


I thought you were going on a trip? Wht the hell are you doing posting here while on vaction, lol

I say have fun and if you get a chance try some 1 or 2rep maxes, it will give you a banch mark for when you try it a few weeks from now.
 
RipStone said:
jkurz-DFT is dual factor training. Basiclly that means you have a loading period where you never really fully recover from your workouts. This period lasts 2-4 weeks generally. Following the loading period comes a deloading period. During a deload you continue to lift, but you lower the volume signfigantly. This allows the body to recover while still being able to lift.

There is a DF version of Madcow's 5x5(I didnt use this when I refered to my DFT).

On off days I increase my fats and lower my carbs. I have a high carb breakfast and then taper my carbs for the rest of the day. So, the only time I really eat starchy carbs are with breakfast. The rest of the day my carbs come from veggies, legumes, fruit(fibourous carb sources).

For cardio days my diet is very similar to lifting days. The exception is that my post-workout meal has slightly less carbs. Since this means I have less caloires, I increase fats for my other meals.

Having said all this about diet, you have to remember that diet is a highly individualized thing. What works for me might not work well for you and vice versa. Dont overthink diet too much. If you are new to training just make sure to eat a lot of clean food so that you can grow. It has taken me a solid year to find a way of eating that my body repsonds well to and I am still tweaking things all the time. I recommend that you do the same. That is, try some things and see what works and what doesnt work. Also, a lot of my ideas on diet come from Dr. John Berardi. Do a search for him and read his stuff.
Click to expand...

Very well said Rip. :)
 
djeclipse- yea, I am on a trip. I am visting a bunch of my high school friends and staying with one of them at their place who happens to have the internet(like just about everyone else in the world). I have been busy as hell, but wanted to check my journal and had that other question too. So yea, believe me I am having a blast and getting away from the gym for a few days has been surpisinly nice. The endless "cheat" meals on the other hand has been driving me a little nuts, but a few days of non so great eating isnt gonna ruin a year of eating great.

YS- thanks bud. I checked your journal at bb.com this morning and it seems like you are having a great week at the gym....glad to see that.
 
RipStone said:
djeclipse- yea, I am on a trip. I am visting a bunch of my high school friends and staying with one of them at their place who happens to have the internet(like just about everyone else in the world). I have been busy as hell, but wanted to check my journal and had that other question too. So yea, believe me I am having a blast and getting away from the gym for a few days has been surpisinly nice. The endless "cheat" meals on the other hand has been driving me a little nuts, but a few days of non so great eating isnt gonna ruin a year of eating great.

YS- thanks bud. I checked your journal at bb.com this morning and it seems like you are having a great week at the gym....glad to see that.
Click to expand...

They have internet in other parts of the world?/?
 
week 9(I guess cus I sorta skipped a few workouts)- Friday

(all loads in pounds)

squats:
-bar x warmup
-135x5
-155x5
-185x5
-215x5
-240x3-----> TRIPLE (felt ok. I have to re-acclimate myself to the heavy loads on my back. 1 week off makes a difference I guess).
-185x8-----> BACK-OFF

bench press:
-95x5
-140x5
-160x5
-170x5
-190x3----> TRIPLE (not bad. the 3rd rep was a little slow, but again just like with squats I have to get used to the weight in my hands).
-160X8----> BACK-OFF

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-110x5
-135x5
-147x3----> TRIPLE
-110X8----> BACK-OFF

parellel bar dips:
-BW+15x11
-BW+15x9
-BW+15x7

beach muscle hammer curls:
-30sx 8
-25sx 10
-25sx 8

decline ez-bar exstensions: (did these like I always so...I do the exstensions and then I do a rest pause cg-bench press)
-40x12+10
-40x10+12

bent over laterals:(did these cus I felt like I was leaning foward a little while squatting, plus I feel like I need some conditioning after the time off so I figured the extra volume wouldnt hurt today. BTW, these were supersetted with triceps).
-10sx12
-10x10

comments: felt great to get back in the gym and back on track with 5x5. During my trip I hit the gym once, but it was like a 30min workout where I did upper body stuff....no 1RMs though like I asked about, hehe.

As suggested to me I went back a week and basiclly redid week 7 friday's workout. I was able to get all the reps in which was nice, but the weight felt weird in my hands. The biggest issue was balance on squats and bench press. Also, I had trouble keeping that "tight" feeling during my lifts, which is wierd cus I feel so tight(unflexible) from not working out last week. I feel a little out of shape, but I dont think its too big of an issue. I will do some HIIT this weekend and hopefullu everything will be back on track next week.

BTW, the trip was a lot of fun. Few too many cheat meals for my liking, but its aint gonna kill me. I needed the time off from the gym I think.

Happy holidays guys.
 
RipStone said:
BTW, the trip was a lot of fun. Few too many cheat meals for my liking, but its aint gonna kill me. I needed the time off from the gym I think.

Happy holidays guys.
Click to expand...

You have to allow yourself a few weks like that, it can't all be about strict diet/workout plan.
 
AB- yea, but the break was good for me.

DJ-ditto what I said above. The thing is, I like being strict and following my diet...I dunno.
 
week 9- saturday

grip/abs:(supersetted for the most part)

1.farmers walks: 90s x60sec x2

2a.plate pinches: two dimes x45secs x2
2b.decline situps: 25x10(to each side)

3a. twisting-hanging leg raises: BWx15 x 2
3b. hanging towel holds: BWx 25secs x2

4. cable crunches: 90x20x2

cardio: 20mins on elliptical trainer

stretching

comments: I feel out of shape. I did abs today cus I havent done them directly in over a week.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanakah, Enjoy :)
 
Monday, Week 10

(all loads in pounds)

squats:
-barx warmup
-135x5
-155x5
-185x3
-215x5
-240x5( Wasnt the best set. I felt my lower back buckle a little on the last rep.....not a good thing of course. I really feel like my low back is a weak point.)

bench press:
-95x5
-140x5
-162x5
-172x5
-192x4(DAMN. This is the first time I failed on bench press and it wasnt pretty. Had to get some help to get the bar off my lower chest. I am fine though. Just kinda embarassing. I was screwed after the 2nd rep cus my left hand grip slipped. I should not even have continued.)----> PR!

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-130x5
-147x5----> matched my PR from a 2 weeks ago.

weighted hypers:
70x7
70x7
70x6
70x6(decided to go a little heavier and add another set cus my low back needs work.)


Abs;
-standing cable crunches: 50x12x3

Comments: Kinda a shitty workout today. Pissed about not matching my PR on bench press and even worse I had to have someone pull the bar off of me. I must have looked like a fucking idiot kid. Also, I am worried about squat. It doesnt seem to be getting any better even with the reset a few weeks back. All of this leads me to...

Question: Now dont think I am getting ahead of myself cus I have thought this through. I think it would be a good time to swicth things up somehow. I was thinking of two options;

1. Since I have a good sense of my weak areas I think running WS for 6-9 weeks would be good for me in order to improve those weak areas. Then I would go back to SF 5x5 and start over with my new 5RMs(assuming I gain strength with WS).

2. Madcow always says that both SF and DF 5x5 are just "snapshots"* in a lifters long term progression. So, I dont think I need to run DF yet. But, what would be the next step if I wanted to continue with the Ripptoe/Pendaly/Madcow philosohpy of focusing on adding weight the the core lifts only in order to grow/get stronger? I remember reading something about doing 3x3 instead....ring a bell anyone?? I really enjoy this program and have made amazing gains with it, but I believe I need to go to the next level to contine progressing.

Hope you guys had a nice Christmas and for some of you other guys let me say in the words of Adam Sandler, "put on your yamakah it's time for Hanakah" :D

* what I am eluding to from Madcow..."Now not having a coach or enough good training experience to pull from, you have to kind of pick a 'cookie cutter' type template (think of it as a snapshot of a single point in the progression) that is an estimate of where you think you are at right now and see what happens. These are the 5x5 examples in my thread, basically a linear weekly model for novices (probably most of the people on this site since this is a whole different type of training than they are used to), I don't have anything for raw beginners yet, and the other is setup as an 'intro to periodization' so to speak that will work for someone at that point and not kill someone who isn't quite ready for it (i.e. they'll get less gains than optimal but most people still find the results infinitely better than what they were getting from their previous programs). "
 
RipStone said:
I must have looked like a fucking idiot kid.

I remember reading something about doing 3x3 instead....ring a bell anyone??
Click to expand...

Ask for a spotter for your top set or do it in a power rack. Period.

Are you referring to Glenn's "change something, anything" recommendation as the first step to getting past a plateau after reramping doesn't work? If so, I think it rings a bell and that changing your squat rep ranges would be a better option than doing something completely different since you're still making very good progress on the rest of your lifts.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Ask for a spotter for your top set or do it in a power rack. Period.

Are you referring to Glenn's "change something, anything" recommendation as the first step to getting past a plateau after reramping doesn't work? If so, I think it rings a bell and that changing your squat rep ranges would be a better option than doing something completely different since you're still making very good progress on the rest of your lifts.
Click to expand...

Yea, I will ask for a spot for now on. In the past I have not missed a rep though. Plus, my hand slipped which is extremely rare.

I wasnt referring to that exactly, but I remember Madcow mentioning something about 3x3. But, what Glenn said sounds exactly like what I need to do. Do you have any other info about this? Thanks.
 
Identifying your lower back as a weak point in the squat is pretty key (I'm thinking dedicating some effort to goodmornings here). Knowing where and why you fail on the bench is something else good to know.

Anyway, one option for extending a run a bit is to decrease volume and accessory work and/or lower the target reps (maybe 2x3 or 1x3) and push on that for a couple more weeks. That's an option that's given people a bit of breathing room. That said, you just canned the squat and are worried about weak links like the lower back. I'd sit back and reflect. Set up a program and begin again. Maybe that's a WSB template, maybe that's another "5x5" but with different reps range or a tad more work at the top end i.e. 2 or 3 sets of 5 with top weight which will give you more work with heavier weight and probably build some better core conditioning. I'd certainly look at goodmornings and even making them a core emphasis. You could also try changing the rep ranges to 3, 8, 10 or whatever. There's a lot of ways you can go, you're essentially a white canvas with some basic shape tracings on it, what you decide to make of it is up to you.
 
Madcow2 said:
Identifying your lower back as a weak point in the squat is pretty key (I'm thinking dedicating some effort to goodmornings here). Knowing where and why you fail on the bench is something else good to know.

Anyway, one option for extending a run a bit is to decrease volume and accessory work and/or lower the target reps (maybe 2x3 or 1x3) and push on that for a couple more weeks. That's an option that's given people a bit of breathing room. That said, you just canned the squat and are worried about weak links like the lower back. I'd sit back and reflect. Set up a program and begin again. Maybe that's a WSB template, maybe that's another "5x5" but with different reps range or a tad more work at the top end i.e. 2 or 3 sets of 5 with top weight which will give you more work with heavier weight and probably build some better core conditioning. I'd certainly look at goodmornings and even making them a core emphasis. You could also try changing the rep ranges to 3, 8, 10 or whatever. There's a lot of ways you can go, you're essentially a white canvas with some basic shape tracings on it, what you decide to make of it is up to you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Madcow. Always appreciated. "I'd sit back and reflect."....I will take this to and try and put something together for the next few days. Maybe even get it done tommorow cus I am on break and dont have much else to do :D
 
Rip, sorry if this constitutes a pseudo-hijack...

MC, where would you recommend incorporating good mornings into the SF program? FYI, hypers are the one thing in the program that my power rack/bench setup has prevented me from including, if that would affect placement.
 
I think I need to to work on my posterior chain/abs too as they seem to be a glaring weakness for me too.I think I still have some mileage left in my squat but I dont really want to tread to far with such weakness.I think that 8weeks on westside wont hurt at all,although it would be quite a change from what I am currently doing(5x5).

I will follow this thread and see what people recommend to you,good luck with whatever you choose :) .
 
Goodmornings are always a great exercise, they are just fairly taxing so you need to account for them. You could also do stiff or romanian deads or hold a plate against your chest and perform a similar motion. If you are going to do some light conditioning work with them then they can replace hypers, if you are going to do them somewhat seriously put in a couple of sets of modest weight 1-2x per week maybe and depending on your tolerance drop some other stuff if need be (i.e. beach work first or maybe some of the light squatting on Wed). If you are going to really hammer at them like a core lift, you need to factor that in explicitly.
 
CS- no need to aploligize at all. You are actually helping me gather info.

ASDFZ- thanks. good luck to you too.

MC2 and others- I was reading this...

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5466367&postcount=958

...and what Glenn/Madcow said was what I was eluding to before when I said this...

"Madcow always says that both SF and DF 5x5 are just "snapshots"* in a lifters long term progression. So, I dont think I need to run DF yet. But, what would be the next step if I wanted to continue with the Ripptoe/Pendaly/Madcow philosohpy of focusing on adding weight the the core lifts only in order to grow/get stronger? I remember reading something about doing 3x3 instead....ring a bell anyone?? I really enjoy this program and have made amazing gains with it, but I believe I need to go to the next level to contine progressing."

Anyway, specifally, what Glenn posted here got me thinking...

"there seem to be a lot of people who do the style of training we usually can "5 by 5" for a while, then wonder "whats next".

one general comment i would make, is that if this style of training has been successfull for you, why change it? and by style of training, im not talking about one specific program, but the general style of doing whole body exercises, training the whole body or at least most of the body in each workout, and doing multiple sets not taken to failure.

i do, however, understand the mental side... you do the same thing over and over and you want something different. there are lots of ways you can change things without totally changing to a "new" program. switching back and forth between widely differing types of training isnt that good of an idea... small and systematic changes over time in what you are doing however IS a good idea."

So the question is, would switching to WS constitute changin to a new program? (I would think it would). Or is it ok cus its still approaching training as systematiclly?

Regardless of if I decide to run WS or stick to the "5x5" methodololgy, I am not sure what to do with squats. I devised a 5x5-ish program, but it has me squatting 2x a week(monday and friday). The rep/sets are changed from SF 5x5 and I dropped Wed's squats. I am thinking that this would help. I dunno

Sorry for the lonnnnng post, but I am serious about training and what to try and do things right.

Thanks for reading this far if you did :D
 
I think even if you deviate from the ''5x5'' to a more westside type routine you will still be doing a better workout then 90% of the average gym patrons you see fumbling with 100sets of arm curls and bench presses :rolleyes: .You can always can always pick up the original 5x5 when you feel like you are ready to commence it again.
 
asdfzxcv said:
I think even if you deviate from the ''5x5'' to a more westside type routine you will still be doing a better workout then 90% of the average gym patrons you see fumbling with 100sets of arm curls and bench presses :rolleyes: .You can always can always pick up the original 5x5 when you feel like you are ready to commence it again.
Click to expand...

Haha, thats true.

Well, I put together a modified 5x5 to work on my weak areas. Let me know what you think guys.

Mon:
-squat 3x8, 2x3(prymaid to a max triple)
-bench press 5x5(same as SF 5x5)
-hammer-chins 5x5 (pyramid to a max set, like row with SF 5x5)
-good mornings 4x6(all sets done short of failure)
-abs 4 sets

Wed;
-conventional deadlifts 4x5(pyramid to a max set)*
-standing overhead press 3x8, 2x3(prymaid to a max triple)
-bent over BB rows 3x8 (all sets done short of failure)
-close-grip bench press 4x6 (all sets done short of failure)
-cable pull-throughs 2x8-12 (all sets done short of failure)

Fri:
-squat 3x8, 1x3, 1x10 (pyramid to a max triple, back-off set with same load as 2nd set)**
-bench press,4x5, 1x3, 1x8(same as SF 5x5)
-hammer-chins 4x5, 1x3, BW x as many as possible (pyramid to a max triple)
-rack pulls 3x8 (all sets done short of failure)
-tris/bis 3x8-12 (all sets done short of failure)

*I have been doing sumo deadlifts because I found this to be a stronger way to deadlifts for me, but I want to work on conventional deadlifts in order to help improve my back. Plus, I have been having some hip-flexor/hip discomfort (as noted in my journal) so I figured not doing sumo DLs would help relieve some of the discomfort.

** The triple I establish on Friday I will attempt to do 2 sets of(2x3) on next Monday’s workout. In order to help with this I will have a long rest period in-between both triple attempts/.

I will ramp the loads up so that I start setting new PR’s in week 3 or 4(just like with Madcow’s SF 5x5). Should I do this with just the core lifts (squat, bench, chins, deadlift, OH press) or should I do this will all the lifts (the assistance type work like rack pulls, GHRs, close-grip bench press, GMs, bent rows, tris/bis)?
 
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Looks pretty decent to me,although you might want to get Madcow2's opinion as he will know how to modify it better then anyone else.

With the squats does it feel like your back is going to fold over with heavy weight on it?That is how mine tends to feel once the weight gets heavy.I am also curious as to your squat stance.Do you use a olympic(narrow) or powerlifter(wide) stance.I myself use the shoulder width olympic stance which I am comfortable with,but it feels like my glutes/hamstrings dont get worked very much at all,which could be part of my problem.

Sorry to rant on in your journal its just that we seem to have very similiar issues.
 
asdfzxcv said:
Looks pretty decent to me,although you might want to get Madcow2's opinion as he will know how to modify it better then anyone else.

With the squats does it feel like your back is going to fold over with heavy weight on it?That is how mine tends to feel once the weight gets heavy.I am also curious as to your squat stance.Do you use a olympic(narrow) or powerlifter(wide) stance.I myself use the shoulder width olympic stance which I am comfortable with,but it feels like my glutes/hamstrings dont get worked very much at all,which could be part of my problem.

Sorry to rant on in your journal its just that we seem to have very similiar issues.
Click to expand...

Yea, I am hoping Macdow chimes in too, but thanks for your opinion....it's appreciated.

I get that folding over feeling only onl heavy sets and when I am nearing my limit. For stance, I use a wide stance with my toes and knees pointed out. It definlet gets the glutes and hammies involved, but as a result there is less quad involvement compared to a narrower stance.

On a side note, I am gonna be lifting in a few hours. I think I will just go ahead with my proposed wed session and try to find my RMs for some of those lifts.
 
I made two slight changes for my proposed program about. I am doing hammer chins instead of palms facing chins and I will do pull-throughs instead of GHRs on wed cus I feel pull-throughs are less taxing than GHRs and I dont want to risk CNS burn out at all. Plus, pull-throughs hit my lower back a little more,

Anyway, I lifted this morning and tried to find some RMs for Wednesday's proposed workout. I did hammer-chins instead of rows cus I did rows on Monday. Plus, I needed to find my RM for hammer-chins and I already have a good idea what I can handle for rows.

conventional deadlifts:
-SLDLs x135 x8(warmup the hammies and low back)
-135x5
-185x5
-225x5
-250x5(I handled this load pretty easily and I estimate I could handle another 15-20lbs. These are so uncomfortable for me to do for some reason. Sumo DLs just come off the floor smoothly while these feel akward. I checked my form from the side and it semmed good :)

standing OH press:
-bar x8
-60x8
-85x8
-120x3
-130x3(I had to find my equilibrium for a second, but after that I pushed 3 reps pretty easily. I estimate I could have handled 135x3).

-hammer chins:
-BWx5
-BWx5
-10x5
-10x5
-20x5(I wasnt sure I was gonna be able to do this, but I did it with no problem. I could have handled 5-10 more lbs.)

CGBP:
-135x6
-135x6
-135x6
-135x6( I performed these with my ring fingers on the middle rings of the bar. All of these reps explosive cus the load seemed pretty light. Probabaly could do at least 10 more lbs for all 4 sets).

-cable pull-throughs:
-100x10
-100x10(very easy, but thats ok for assitance work)

comments: I think I have a good idea of what loads I can handle now for some of these new rep/set schemes and exercises, so it was a successful day.

Questions:

1. Any more opinions on my proposed program would be really appreciated? :) (pretty, pretty please with sugar on top....I'll be your best freind, hehe).

2. For conventional deadlifts, where do you guys posisition the bar relative to your ankles and feet? For sumos I always started the bar basiclly so it was rubbing againt my ankles. But for conv. DLs, this posisition seems akward cus I need to stand less vetically(ie my back is more parallel to the ground w/ conv. DLs, while with sumo DLs my back is more perpendicular with the ground).

Thanks guys.
 
RipStone said:
I made two slight changes for my proposed program about. I am doing hammer chins instead of palms facing chins and I will do pull-throughs instead of GHRs on wed cus I feel pull-throughs are less taxing than GHRs and I dont want to risk CNS burn out at all. Plus, pull-throughs hit my lower back a little more,

Anyway, I lifted this morning and tried to find some RMs for Wednesday's proposed workout. I did hammer-chins instead of rows cus I did rows on Monday. Plus, I needed to find my RM for hammer-chins and I already have a good idea what I can handle for rows.

conventional deadlifts:
-SLDLs x135 x8(warmup the hammies and low back)
-135x5
-185x5
-225x5
-250x5(I handled this load pretty easily and I estimate I could handle another 15-20lbs. These are so uncomfortable for me to do for some reason. Sumo DLs just come off the floor smoothly while these feel akward. I checked my form from the side and it semmed good :)

standing OH press:
-bar x8
-60x8
-85x8
-120x3
-130x3(I had to find my equilibrium for a second, but after that I pushed 3 reps pretty easily. I estimate I could have handled 135x3).

-hammer chins:
-BWx5
-BWx5
-10x5
-10x5
-20x5(I wasnt sure I was gonna be able to do this, but I did it with no problem. I could have handled 5-10 more lbs.)

CGBP:
-135x6
-135x6
-135x6
-135x6( I performed these with my ring fingers on the middle rings of the bar. All of these reps explosive cus the load seemed pretty light. Probabaly could do at least 10 more lbs for all 4 sets).

-cable pull-throughs:
-100x10
-100x10(very easy, but thats ok for assitance work)

comments: I think I have a good idea of what loads I can handle now for some of these new rep/set schemes and exercises, so it was a successful day.

Questions:

1. Any more opinions on my proposed program would be really appreciated? :) (pretty, pretty please with sugar on top....I'll be your best freind, hehe).

2. For conventional deadlifts, where do you guys posisition the bar relative to your ankles and feet? For sumos I always started the bar basiclly so it was rubbing againt my ankles. But for conv. DLs, this posisition seems akward cus I need to stand less vetically(ie my back is more parallel to the ground w/ conv. DLs, while with sumo DLs my back is more perpendicular with the ground).

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

shameless bump :artist:
 
research workout-friday

20- rep squats:
-bar x warmup
-135x8
-160x20--------> PR! ( I HAVE DONE 20 REP SQUATS BEFORE, BUT NEVER WITH THIS MUCH WEIGHT)
-170x15(thought I could handle another 10lbs, but my form started to get bad so I stopped at 15)

bench press:(continuing with SF 5x5 approach)
-95x5
-140x5
-160x5
-172x5
-193x3 TRIPLE (was a little nervous cus of what happened w/ bench on monday)
-160x8 BACK-OFF

rack-pulls(set these up so the bar was at my knees)*
-135x5
-185x8
-225x8
-245x8(all seemed very easy)

face-pulls:
-60x8
-60x8**

triceps; decline ez bar exstensions:(wanted to aim for 8-12 reps, but the 50lbs bar was being used)
-60x6
-60x6
-60x6

biceps; hammer curls(supersetted with triceps):
-30x8
-30x8
-30x6(should have grabbed 25s to get in 8 reps)

comments: pretty decent workout. just trying to play around with weights to see what I should use if I go ahead with my proposed program(still looking for comments about this PLEASE :)

* I was aiming to do 3x8(not to failure), but all these sets seemed light. Should I be starting the bar lower, below my knees?? Also do guys usually do more weight with rack-pull compared to normal DLs? I would think so since ROM is a lot less.

BTW, I really enjoyed doing these. I was really able to synchronize my pull from both the upper back and lower body....something I often struggle with when I do normal DLs.

** I was aiming to do 3x8 with these, but when I was done with my 2nd set a trainer comes over to me and asks me what muscles I am doing those for. I said, rear-delts and traps. And he replies, "Oh, I thought you were doing those for biceps". I am like "noooooo". So goes on to tell me that I should do something else for rear-delts and traps...and I had know idea what he was trying to tell me to do. I was kinda pissed cus I didnt ask him for advice and he just comes up to me and interupts my workout. I know he had good intentions and was trying to be helpful, but he does not understand that I was doing these in order to help my deadlift and not to isolate rear-delts and traps. I didnt want to explain to him the real reason why I was doing face-pulls cus I doubt he would have understood cus he is BBer and he is thinking in terms of "back, bis", "tris, delts" days, etc....you get the point. I dont know how I should have handled this, but I am kinda pissed.

IF YOU GUYS WOULD BE SO KIND, I REALLY NEED ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO FOR MY NEXT TRAINING CYCLE.....IS MY PROPOSED PROGRAM (IN POST #238) GOOD FOR MY GOALS AND THE POINT I AM AT IN MY TRAINING....SHOULD I DO SOMETHING ELSE??? HELP!?
 
I wish I could help, but I haven't been doing this long either and haven't really deviated from the stock 5x5 (I've turned into a one trick pony, heh). What's the plan, run with the new routine until you stall, then revert to the 5x5?

Post 238 looks ok to me, just watch the assistance work doesn't affect the core work.
 
I think there was still plenty left in what you were doing. But the new stuff doesn't look bad. Pick something, think of it like it's the greatest program ever, and gain what you can from it. You know enough to evaluate the merits and results of a prgram. Run it and learn.

But I wtill say you should stick it out w/ the SF but with concessions made for the squat sticking point.
 
Yeah, I was kind of disappointed you didn't quite reach stalling on the SF. It would have been good to see someone resetting and ramping up again. I haven't seen anyone do that yet.
 
Thanks for the replies anotherbutters and g5.0. I really want to continue with SF 5x5, but I dont know what to do with squats? Wait, a thought just popped into my head. How's this sound...continue with SF 5x5 just as it's layed out, but in order to work on my weak point(low back) and fix the squat issue, I will drop the wednesday squat and add either GMs or rack pulls using an assitance rep/set scheme(4x6 or 3x8). This could work....
 
RipStone said:
I will drop the wednesday squat and add either GMs or rack pulls using an assitance rep/set scheme(4x6 or 3x8).
Click to expand...

You already have a very similar and heavy exercise that day. I was considering Wednesday for GMs as well but decided to do a few very light sets of 8 at the end of my Friday workout instead (should be more useful than the calf raises I had there previously :rolleyes: ).
 
I agree, you're already pulling heavy on Weds. The SF description suggests weighted hypers on Monday as an assistance exercise, so you might consider those. Or do as CS does with GMs on Friday.

I'd have thought that simply increasing your squat would increase your back strength and keep it in line with everything else.
 
Ok thanks again guys.

So let me just make sure I have this straight....

Wed: drop squats add keep everything else the same
Fri: add light GMs or rack pulls(maybe 3x8) and keep everything else the same.

BTW, I have been doing hypers on monday. The thing is I feel that I am not able to increase squats anymore cus my weak lower back(im comparison with the rest of my muscles used for squat) is holding me back from increasing my squat. I think the above idea(wed, fri) should help with this.

Sound good? Hope so :)
 
Since you're not training GMs as a primary lift (I think madcow mentioned dropping/decreasing the Wed. squats in this context), you could probably keep them if you wanted to. Deads obviously involve the legs quite a bit, but you might want to consider keeping some sort of more direct "bridge" between Monday and Friday's squats (in particular if you're still having problems with tightness). Front squats might be something to think about. They'd provide a change of pace and allow you to work your quads pretty well without your back being a limiting factor. I haven't done them, but hopefully Guinness and others who have can chime in on their effects, if any of note, on back squat progress, form, etc.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Since you're not training GMs as a primary lift (I think madcow mentioned dropping/decreasing the Wed. squats in this context), you could probably keep them if you wanted to. Deads obviously involve the legs quite a bit, but you might want to consider keeping some sort of more direct "bridge" between Monday and Friday's squats (in particular if you're still having problems with tightness). Front squats might be something to think about. They'd provide a change of pace and allow you to work your quads pretty well without your back being a limiting factor. I haven't done them, but hopefully Guinness and others who have can chime in on their effects, if any of note, on back squat progress, form, etc.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....I will have to think about that too. But I think I am on the right page now at least cus I am sticking with SF 5x5 and just making some slight changes....instead of before where I thought I had to make a new template.
 
So here is the proposed SF 5x5 program with a few changes in order to help strenghten my lower back and break my squat plateau.

mon:
-5x5 squats (should I reset these since last week I got goofed around w/squats?)
-5x5 bench
-5x5 row
-4x10 weighted hypers
-3-4 sets abs

wed:
-4x5 OH press
-4x5 deadlifts(should I continue with sumo DLs or switch to coventional deadlifts in order to work my lower back more and take some pressure off my hips?)
-5x5 hammer chins(swicthed from normal chins)
-front squat or 20 rep squats(should I even include any squats on this day? I orginally was thinking to drop squats compltley on this day in order to cut volume and in turn boost my 5 RM??)
-3-4 sets of abs

fri:
-4x5, 1x3, 1x8 squats
-4x5, 1x3, 1x8 bench press
-4x5, 1x3, 1x8 rows
-weighted dips 3x8-12
-rack pulls or good mornings 4x8(this will be added in order to strengthen my lower back. I will see which exercises is better in terms of helping my squat performance)
-bis/tris 3x8-12

Thanks everyone and have a happy new years :)
 
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cynical simian said:
I haven't done them, but hopefully Guinness and others who have can chime in on their effects, if any of note, on back squat progress, form, etc.
Click to expand...
Well I don't know how much help I can be, seeing as I'm retooling my squat as we speak. Plus, I started to find that GMs aggravated my back - I'm thinking I've got minor herniation or something that only gets bothered in specific circumstances. All I can say is that lots of smart people SWEAR by GMs so in general I'd say do 'em. Can't hurt to see if they bump your weights up.

ripstone said:
-front squat or 20 rep squats(should I even include any squats on this day? I orginally was thinking to drop squats compltley on this day in order to cut volume and in turn boost my 5 RM??)-3-4 sets of abs
Click to expand...
Dude, 20 rep squats are BRUTAL. If you're so certain that your back is weak, my .02 would be to not do something so taxing in place of 'light' squats. Maybe backing off a tad and working the weak spot with the GMs and keeping monday's squat weights moving up will be jsut what the doctor ordered. Then you could get back on track with a more 'standard' program or milk this for all it's worth. Lots of ways to 'skin a cat' /madcow2
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Well I don't know how much help I can be, seeing as I'm retooling my squat as we speak. Plus, I started to find that GMs aggravated my back - I'm thinking I've got minor herniation or something that only gets bothered in specific circumstances. All I can say is that lots of smart people SWEAR by GMs so in general I'd say do 'em. Can't hurt to see if they bump your weights up.

Dude, 20 rep squats are BRUTAL. If you're so certain that your back is weak, my .02 would be to not do something so taxing in place of 'light' squats. Maybe backing off a tad and working the weak spot with the GMs and keeping monday's squat weights moving up will be jsut what the doctor ordered. Then you could get back on track with a more 'standard' program or milk this for all it's worth. Lots of ways to 'skin a cat' /madcow2
Click to expand...

Thanks. I will defintley include GMs somewhere and somehow into the revised 5x5 plan.

Yea, I figured 20 reppers would get the thumbs down, but I know Madcow mentioned them as a tool for brining up squats when they statt. But he was probabaly referring to using them as a 1-2 week cycle, not a regular part of a program. So at this point I am leaning towards completley dropping squats on wed.
 
20 rep squats can be useful as can a lot of other techniques. The issue is that you have limited capacity and you can't just throw them in at random - kind of have to make room or design around something like that (or do them a lot lighter which accomplishes the same thing but might not be desirable for the technique being employed).

Use good mornings, they are excellent for your purpose. If you had some experience and were tuned up you could even do them 5x5 or 4x5 maybe on Wed, sub out the dead and pair this with a lighter squat or front squat. Maybe even do a few sets of pulls on friday (high pulls, speed deads, or just some rep work) would work.

If Sumo is giving you hip issues, pull conventional, worth trying different things at different times and not having competitive constraints means you are a free bird.
 
Madcow2 said:
20 rep squats can be useful as can a lot of other techniques. The issue is that you have limited capacity and you can't just throw them in at random - kind of have to make room or design around something like that (or do them a lot lighter which accomplishes the same thing but might not be desirable for the technique being employed).

Use good mornings, they are excellent for your purpose. If you had some experience and were tuned up you could even do them 5x5 or 4x5 maybe on Wed, sub out the dead and pair this with a lighter squat or front squat. Maybe even do a few sets of pulls on friday (high pulls, speed deads, or just some rep work) would work.

If Sumo is giving you hip issues, pull conventional, worth trying different things at different times and not having competitive constraints means you are a free bird.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Madcow.

So you are recommending that on wed I keep light squats on, drop deadlifts, and add GMs? Then on friday add some sort of pulling exercise?

What about deadlifts off the ground? Dont do them for a bit?? Would the reason for dropping heavy deadlifts be to reduce workload on my CNS in order to help improve my squat?
 
monday, week- 12( I dunno, its messed up cus of last week and that week I took off)

squats:
-95x5
-135x5
-185x3
-210x5
-240x5( I was very happy with this set. It was really a piece of cake actually. My depth was very good. I was really focusing on staying tight as they say(bracing my abs and lower back) and spreading the floor as I was starting the ascend. This helped take some pressure of my hips. The only problem is that I fely my self leaning foward a little on the ascend on the last rep. Note, I went lighter on the first few sets today. I think that helped....is that ok? Or am I messing up the volume. I think it would be ok cus all that really matters is the max set.)

bench press:
-95x5
-135x5
-155x5
-175x5
-193x4.5( I also went a little lighter on the first few sets for bench cus I figured it worked for squats. 193x5 was a 1lb PR attempt, but I was having trouble with the lock out and my spotter grabbed the bar pre-maturely IMO. I told him not to even touch the bar unless it looked like I was in trouble, so I guess he though I was in trouble! I think I could have racked it out though.)

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-135x5
-150x5----> PR!!

weighted hypers:
70x8(+ 1 rep from last week)
70x8(+ 1 rep from last week)
70x6(same)
70x6(same)

Abs;
-standing cable crunches: 50x12x3
-planks: BWx60secsx2

Comments: I was really focused today and had an itense workout. I am a little upset the spotter didnt give me another second to lock out, but oh well. This is the first time I asked for a spotter during this program and see what happens! But I had to ask cus of what happened last week(dont remind me) :D

Questions: Still wondering what to do for wed and fri(see post above; #257).

Thanks :)
 
I have looked over Madcow's advice as well as though about what everyone else has been recommending and I think this is how I will proceed. Let me know what you guys think. Gracias.

mon: normal SF 5x5

wed:
-some squat varation(front squats, OH squats, light box squats, light front squats) 4x5
-OH press 4x5
-hammer chins 5x5
-GMs 5x5 (should I prymaid these up or do straight sets?)
-abs 3-4 sets

fri:
-squats 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
-bench press 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
-rows 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
-dips 3x8-12
-bis/tris 3x8-12
-rack pulls 3x8-12
 
Remember, ramping or flat sets is just a way of managing volume. I'd opt for ramping. Especially if you haven't done them before.

I've seen two variations of these (and I'm sure there are more). One where you go almost parallel to the floor with your back, the other one where you lean forward a little bit (maybe 20 degrees) with a much heavier weight, then forcefully lift the bar back up. Which are you doing, just out of curiosity?
 
anotherbutters said:
Remember, ramping or flat sets is just a way of managing volume. I'd opt for ramping. Especially if you haven't done them before.

I've seen two variations of these (and I'm sure there are more). One where you go almost parallel to the floor with your back, the other one where you lean forward a little bit (maybe 20 degrees) with a much heavier weight, then forcefully lift the bar back up. Which are you doing, just out of curiosity?
Click to expand...


Thanks.

Yea, I was thinking that ramping would be a better idea.

I am gonna perform bent over GMs(parallel to the floor, knees slighlty bent). You can see what I am thinking of here(click the guys low-back and you will be redirected to a list of exercises and you' see bent over GMs).
 
anotherbutters said:
I've seen two variations of these (and I'm sure there are more). One where you go almost parallel to the floor with your back, the other one where you lean forward a little bit (maybe 20 degrees) with a much heavier weight, then forcefully lift the bar back up.
Click to expand...

Hmm...is that second one a "variation" in the same sense as the 45-degree bent over row or above-parallel squat? Seems like forcefully whipping the bar back, especially if you're using a heavier weight due to the decreased ROM, is a recipe for an uncontrolled/undesirable hyperextension or at least a lot of back stress (akin to that borne by the knees in a shallow squat).
 
week 12, wednesday

hammer chins(I did these first cus when I got to the gym the squat racks were taken):
-10x5
-10x5
-10x5
-10x5
-10x5

front squats:
-bar x 5
-95x5
-115x5
-135x5(yea, pretty pathetic #s, but I havent dont these in a really long time and last time I did them I didnt know what the heck I was doing. the grip/balancing the bar on my front delts was diffiucult. i used a cross-handed grip BTW. also, my form was probabaly not steller either, but again its the first time I did these in a while. what i was reallu struggling with was keep my shoulder blades tight throughout the lift cus balancing the bar on my front delts forced my center of gravity foward....any way to remedy this?)

OH press:
-75x5
-90x5
-110x5
-125x5(matched my PR. I didnt want to go for a new PR this week cus of my goof-up week last week. Next week I will bump the weight up for the max set. This max-set was challenging, but I think I can handle more weight).

-bent knee- GMs:
-bar x5
-75x5
-95x5
-115x5
-125x5(all these sets were done to parallel. again, i went light on these cus i havent done them in a while. they felt really good though.)

abs:
-kneeling cable crunches: 85x15
-hanging leg raises: BWx15, BWx11
-swiss ball crunches: BWx15

comments: nothing stellar today...no super heavy loads or anything, but it was an intense workout. one reason the intensity was up was that i am figuring out a new schedule due to winter tri-mester starting yesterday. i kinda had to rush through this workout, so on friday i will wake up 30mins earlier so i dont have to rush as much. i think i was out the door and back in the house in like 80mins(I walk to my gym). I was flying, lol.
 
With front squats, I find the higher I can get the rack, the better the bar will sit on my shoulders. I haven't tried them with arms crossed, but I presume it would have the same effect.
 
anotherbutters said:
With front squats, I find the higher I can get the rack, the better the bar will sit on my shoulders. I haven't tried them with arms crossed, but I presume it would have the same effect.
Click to expand...

I'll try that next week, thanks.
 
week 12-thursday

cardio: 15mins of HIIT on elliptical

stretching

comments: quick and sweaty. BTW, I sometimes have been forgetting to updat my cardio sessions latley, not that anyone cares how many mins I did on the elliptical, etc :D
 
week 12- Friday

(all loads in pounds)

squats:
-95x5
-135x5
-185x5
-215x5
-245x3-----> TRIPLE
-245x3-----> TRIPLE ( yes, did did two triples today. i did this cus Madcow recommended doing more reps with a higher load in order to strengthen my core. as a result, i omitted the back-off set to keep the volume about the same. still having a little trouble leaning foward on the ascend, but i think it will work its way out with time and getting stronger in the core)

bench press:
-95x5
-135x5
-155x5
-175x5
-195x3----> TRIPLE (pretty damn easy! i went for 195x3 cus on mon i did 193x4.5 and i felt like i should have got 5 reps if my spotter was a little more patient...GRRR! but, on next mon I will do 193x5 just to make sure i can get it and not jump ahead.)
-155X8----> BACK-OFF

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-135x5
-155x3----> TRIPLE
-115X8----> BACK-OFF

parellel bar dips:
-BW+20x10
-BW+20x8
-BW+15x7

rack-pull:
-245x8
-245x8( i only did 2 sets cus my low back was already feeling it from the other work.

supersetted w/ alt. DB curls
-25sx8x3

-OMITED ISOLATION TRICEP WORK CUS MY TRICEPS WERE A LITTLE PRE-FATIGUED FROM WED

comments: really intense workout. as you can see i made a few changes(like omitting triceps, the 2 triples w/ squats, and rack pulls). i also flew through this workout cus i have to get to class. i think i got all this done in about 60-65mins. all in all, a very good workout. i have a little adrealine high as i am typing this

also, i was reading a t-nation article by Mike Robertson. he was talking about how you have to picture yourself not only lifting the weight, but being the kinda lifter you wanna be. i really took this to heart today. i am like i SHOULD be able to lift this weight....you know what I mean?

Thanks guys.
 
week 12- saturday

grip/forearms:

-plates pinches/standing behind the back wrist curls superset:
2 dimes x 60secs/ 80x12 (2 supersets)*

-static DB holds/palms up wrist curls:
100s x 45secs/ 40x8 (2 supersets)

cardio: stair climbing(about 10 mins with a 45 sec recovery phases), 10mins on elliptical

stretching

comments: * the gym was really crowded so I decicded not to do farmers walks and also to superset the grip/forearm work.
 
Monday, Week 13

(all loads in pounds)

squats:
-95x5
-135x5
-185x5
-215x5
-245x5(pretty happy with this max set today. i was able to stay much more inbalance for all my reps, rather than lean foward a little on the ascend. i guess the extra lower back/pull work is already paying off.)

bench press:
-95x5
-135x5
-155x5
-175x5
-193xWHO THE FUCK KNOWS( i had a spotter whose hands were obviously a postive side to a magnet and was attracted to the negative ions in the bar. see RANT* below)

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-135x5
-152x5(form got a little sloppy on the last 2 reps. i might have been loosing my angle too much. i will see how these go next monday. re-setting these back a few pounds in order to have better form might be in my future.)---->PR!

weighted hypers:
70x9
70x8
70x6
BWx15(my lower back was feeling a lot of lactic acid, so I decided to do my 4th set just with my body weight. I did a slow negative on these.)

Abs;
-hanging-twisting leg raises: BWx15, BWx12

-standing cable crunches: 60x8x2

Comments: I had a lot of energy today. This had been a good trend of late. I think I can equate my higher enegy levels latley to an increased metabolism. I have been getting hungrier latlety, so I have been eating more. Usually getting hungier means your metabolism is higher and if your metobolism is higher that means you have more muscle! :)

WARNING; RANT...

So about my max set on bench press. I ask a guy who is a trainer there for a spot. He isnt training someone, he's just doing his own workout. This guy would not take his hands off the bar! So, as I was in the middle of my set I kept on having to tell him "I got it", which was really distracting of course. On the 5th rep the bar was going up slow, but I was pretty confident I was gonna be able to lock it out IF HE WOULD JUST GIVE ME A SECOND, but NO! Hands on the bar right away. And here's the kicker. After I am done he tells me "good set". I respond, "Thanks, but I would have liked to see if I could do all the reps on my OWN!" He says, "you did 5 reps" and I answer, "but you were helping me". His repsonse" No, I wasnt."

So know I have no idea what to think or do. I know his hands were on the bar. I know that it felt like he helped me, especislly on the last rep. But he claims it was all me. So how should I progress with bench press?? I am thinking that on friday I am gonna try 193x5 again(instead of the usualy triple) to make sure I can do the weight before adding more weight to the bar next monday. Sound ok??

Sorry for the rant. I am just steamed cus I look foward to monday's workout all week cus I want to set new PRs. But then shit like this happens and it's dissapointing.
 
I go through a 'pre-bench checklist' with new spotters. I tell 'em, "The way I look at it, if you even touch this bar it's a failed rep for me. I just want you to help me rack it if I absolutely can't move it. OK?"

So far, so good w/ this approach. Just make it clear that hands on = failed rep for you.
 
Last edited:
That sucks about the spot on the bench press. I do the same as Guinness5.0, I say not to touch the bar unless I ask them to. I then tell them how many I want to get on my own and then say everything over again so it's 100% clear. The on that last rep where it's going up extreemly slow I tell them not to touch it.

The problem is spotting has somehow become helping a little bit on all the reps and then telling the person that they did them all on their own. It's so bad now days that most of the people lifting the weight expect that type of a spot.

I say try it again for 5 reps on Firday, if you get it go up on monday and hopefully put that bad spotbehind you.
 
Sorry to hear about the spotter problems. Like Guinness said, make it absolutely clear to him that helping you when the bar hasn't stalled and started going down is just as bad as not bailing you out when you actually do need it. Tell him that the only difference in your mind between the two scenarios is that you'll be able to kick his ass in former because you're not trapped under the bar. ;)

If shit like this keeps happening, just do your top set in a power rack, and if some moron complains because he wants to use it for curls or ass-to-45-degrees squats, tell him that you'd gladly vacate it if a single person in the gym were capable of providing a competent spot.
 
Thanks for the tips guys. I'll make sure to have my spotters sign a contract before they have the honor of spotting me :D ;) In all seriousness, that helps alot.

So you guys think its ok to do 193x5 on friday instead of the normal triple?
 
I'd say go with 195 like you did this past Friday after essentially the same thing happened with last Monday's set of 193. Based on your comments, you can handle 193; while proving it to yourself by doing 5 reps on Friday might accomplish something mentally, I think going ahead with an increase for a triple on Friday would be better for your progress. If 195 feels as easy as it did last Friday, it should be appropriate for next Monday's set of 5.
 
Cynical Simian said:
I'd say go with 195 like you did this past Friday after essentially the same thing happened with last Monday's set of 193. Based on your comments, you can handle 193; while proving it to yourself by doing 5 reps on Friday might accomplish something mentally, I think going ahead with an increase for a triple on Friday would be better for your progress. If 195 feels as easy as it did last Friday, it should be appropriate for next Monday's set of 5.
Click to expand...

Aha...makes sense. I'll do that. Thank ya sir.
 
week 13, wednesday

front squats:
-bar x 8
-115x5
-130x5
-145x5x2(I took thge advice of[forgot who, but thanks] and racked the bar one notch higher. this helped me set the bar at a better posistion on my shoulders. front squats felt a lot better today, than last week. depth was great.)------> PR!!

hammer chins:
-15x5x3(+5 from last week)
-10x5x2(same as last week)

OH press:
-75x5
-90x5
-110x5
-126x5(really good set. i felt like i could have done another 1-2 reps with ease, which is good at this stage. its about time i start progressing w/ OH press!)------> PR!!

-bent knee-GMs:
-bar x5
-75x5
-95x5
-115x5
-130x5(good sets here. i was gonna go for 135x5, but i didnt wanna push my luck.)------> PR!!

abs:
-standing-twisting cable crunches: 45x20
-circut abs work

comments: lots of PRs= :) boy. my intensity was once again through the roof. i really have a adreline high going right now as i type this.

question: i was inspecting my shows that i usually wear and i noticed that the heel was a little higher than i thought. the shoes i normally wear are Nike's "free" model. they are really light weight....kinda like wrestleing shoes, so i thought they would be good. but for the heck of it i swictched shoes today to a walking style shoe; New Balance 770s. They are pretty flat soled. i dunno but they seemed to help a lot asd far as squat depth. so, should i stick with these arte should i maybe get some Chuck Taylors? Keep in mind for back squats I use a power lifting stance, but go below parallel.

Thanks gents. :)
 
Do you get funny looks while doing GMs? When I did 'em at Xsport pretty much everyone in my vicinity gave me puzzled looks - I look at the mirror when I do 'em to help keep my back flat and couldn't help but notice that I was a spectacle :)
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Do you get funny looks while doing GMs? When I did 'em at Xsport pretty much everyone in my vicinity gave me puzzled looks - I look at the mirror when I do 'em to help keep my back flat and couldn't help but notice that I was a spectacle :)
Click to expand...

You know it man, lol! I mean I am probably the youngest guy working out there so that already draws unwanted attention to me.

But then you got this kid(me) who doesnt know what the hell he is doing( :verygood: ) and he is always doing "crazy" exercises. I mean today he did squats but the bar was on the wrong side of his body, chins with plates hanging from a belt, and some funny looking exercise where in the squat rack where he bent over....WTF! :)

Okay, so maybe I am crazy! I Dunno. But I think the pro-BBer/trainer there who was doing triceps/biceps when I got there and still doing them when I left is the real crazy one....
 
djeclipse said:
Congrats on the PR's! You're getting closer and closer to 1 plate a side for Military press, how cool is that?!
Click to expand...

Thanks.

It is gonna be great when I get 1 plate a side for MP. I think its gonna be soon too :)
 
Question to ye fellas...I have been using a PLing style squat(wide stance, feet/thighs pointed out, etc, etc) and have been trying to go pretty deep. Now, should I try more of an oly style squat? The reason I ask is cus when I was doing front squat yesterday I was using just a natural stance(more narrow, feet pointed a little outwards) and was able to go really deep. My cocern is that going from PLing squats oly squats is that I wont be able to handle as much load with the latter. Thoughts??
 
I think it was biggt who said the other day that the only thing similar between oly and PL squats is that they're both called squats. I've only ever gone ATF myself, with, I guess, a fairly wide stance - my heels are probably 18" apart, with my toes pointing outwards. My stance is much narrower on front squats. So I haven't tried PL squats. That doesn't really help you, does it? :)
 
anotherbutters said:
I think it was biggt who said the other day that the only thing similar between oly and PL squats is that they're both called squats. I've only ever gone ATF myself, with, I guess, a fairly wide stance - my heels are probably 18" apart, with my toes pointing outwards. My stance is much narrower on front squats. So I haven't tried PL squats. That doesn't really help you, does it? :)
Click to expand...

LOL! (really I did). Thanks for trying :)
 
week 13- Friday

(all loads in pounds)

squats:
-95x5
-135x5
-185x5
-215x5
-250x3-----> TRIPLE
-250x3-----> TRIPLE ( just like last week I did 2 triples and omitted the back off set. these 2 sets went up with ease!a)

bench press:
-95x5
-135x5
-155x5
-175x5
-200x3----> TRIPLE (thats right biatches....thats a TWO. I was feeling really strong today so I went for the big two-zero-zero and got it no problemo. I followed your advice with the spotter and told the dude that you dont even need to touch the bar unless I ask for it. )
-135X11----> BACK-OFF(decided to do less weight, more reps for some extra hypertophy. I am sure one week of switching it up a little will be fine).

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-135x5
-155x3----> TRIPLE (I didnt like the form with these. I might have to reset rows)
-115X8----> BACK-OFF (feeling a lot of lactic acid)

parellel bar dips:
-BW+20x10
-BW+20x8
-BW+20x5 (my workout was running a little long, so I kinda zipped through these with less rest than normal, so that might have affected the amount of reps I was able to do....o well).

rack-pull:
-250x8
-250x7

supersetted w/ alt. DB curls
-25sx10x2

-OMITED ISOLATION TRICEP ISOALATION

comments: another intense workout. I know this sounds corny, but I wrote on the top of my workout log book "BELIEVE- YOUR ARE THAT STRONG. I dunno, it helps cus sometimes I doubt myself, so I just need to keep it in my head that I should be able to do XYZ lbs.
 
Congrats on the 200 x 3 bench! That is my short term goal. now lets se the 200 x 5 PR on monday! :)

BELIEVE- YOUR ARE THAT STRONG
A lot of times that last rep is a matter of believing you can do it... no mental bolcks.
 
djeclipse said:
Congrats on the 200 x 3 bench! That is my short term goal. now lets se the 200 x 5 PR on monday! :)

BELIEVE- YOUR ARE THAT STRONG
A lot of times that last rep is a matter of believing you can do it... no mental bolcks.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Actually, I am gonna go for 192-5x5 cus I never really did 192x5 cus of a crappy spotter. I jumped ahead of myself cus I felt that I could handle more weight and I would have been able to do 192x5 if it wasnt for the spotter grabbing the bar pre-maturely.

Its amazing how much an optomistic attidtude will do for your lifting....or for that matter for everything in like.
 
Monday, Week 14

(all loads in pounds)

squats:
-95x5
-135x5
-185x5
-215x5
-250x5(got 5 reps in, but took a pretty big pause between reps 4 and 5. form was okay...nice depth and i stayed back on my heels. the thing that wasnt so good was that i could feel myself slightly going into a "good morning" posistion on the ascend. also, i am having some discomfort in my hips. not so much when i am squatting, but more like throughout the day. kinda worried about this. perhaps a joint issue??)------> PR!!!

bench press:
-95x5
-135x5
-155x5
-175x5
-195x4( didnt even go for the 5th rep. i knew it wasnt going up. i dunno even know how solid the first 4 reps were...probabaly werent brought down low enough. i dunno what is wrong with me, but i seem to be able to nail the triples on friday, but when i go for the fives i have a mental block or something).

BB rows:
-70x5
-95x5
-115x5
-130x5
-145x5(i reset these back a few weeks in order to have better form. i got 5 reps in at parallel so i am happy)

weighted hypers:
-50x12x3
-50x8(decided to go with less weight, more reps today for hypertrophy purposes).

Abs;
- cable crunches: 90x15x2

-knee raises: BWx12x2

Comments: not a very good workout today. my intensity was no where to be found. i am pretty sure this is due to lack of sleep last night and the night before. i probabaly should not have even lifted today. i hate to say this, but i defated myself before i even went for the bench press PR. i just didnt have the energy.

Question: My progress has been crawling latley. I am wondering what you guys think about a reset/deload? I think I might need it in order to take some stress off my CNS. I mean I have been going at it hard now for over 3 months and I have been having to make a lot of changes to the orginal program in order to milk out some progress, but the progress is still slow. So, maybe I should reset the program and do everything verbatim to the orginal program...what do you guys think?

Thanks for reading and helping :)
 
Congrats on the Squat PR. Sorry to hear about your troubles with bench press. Lack of sleep could be a part of it. You're able to get 200 for the tripple so you have it in you. What about going for 193 x 5 or something like that, somethig in between 190 and 195 for 5?

For your weighted hypers, is that 50lbs at 12 reps, 3 sets?
 
djeclipse said:
Congrats on the Squat PR. Sorry to hear about your troubles with bench press. Lack of sleep could be a part of it. You're able to get 200 for the tripple so you have it in you. What about going for 193 x 5 or something like that, somethig in between 190 and 195 for 5?

For your weighted hypers, is that 50lbs at 12 reps, 3 sets?
Click to expand...

thanks :). yea, at least I got one PR today.

yea, 50lbs, 3 sets, 12 reps a set. the 4th set was just 8 reps cus i was getting a lot of lactic acid in my lower back and i didnt want to be too sore tommorow, heh.

BUMP on my question in my other post(today workout). Could use some opinions please...
 
wednesday, week 14

READ FIRST PLEASE :)

So I woke up today and I again was feeling tired and didnt have the drive to go workout. I kept on trying to get myself pumped up, etc, but I just could not. This is the 2nd straight workout were I had this problem. And from what you will see with the workout numbers below, combined with the tiredness, and the lack of mental intensity I believe I am expierncing sings of overtraining...

front squats:
-bar x 8
-115x5
-135x5( for some reason I just could not get comfortable with the bar posistion today, so for the remaining 2 sets I just did light back squats)
-175x5x2

OH press:
-75x5
-90x5
-110x5
-127x6 (the one bright spot in my workout today. This is a 1lbs PR, plus for some reason I did an extra rep.)--------> PR!!

sumo deadlifts: ( As you guys recall, I was doing GMs the last 2 weeks, but my hamstrings were feeling pretty sore from the hypers on monday[yet another sign I am not recovering] so I decided to do DLs, which is more of a full body movement and less likely to use hammies[ although I know DLs were hammies too] )

-135x5
-185x5
-225x5
-275x3m (WTF! My old PR was 280x5 and these 3 reps just sucked ass. I could tell my upper back rounded way too much. Also, there was no way in hell I was getting the 4th rep up so I just stopped after 3 in order not to risk injury.)

chins:

-BW+15x5x2(same as last week)
-BW+15x4(-1 rep, and I felt weak as fuck with these, so I decided to just do BW reps for the last 2 sets)
-BWx6(oh c'mon, last week I did BW+10x5 for my 4th set)
-BWx5 (fuck!)

Abs:

-standing cable crunches: 60x12x3

-various swiss ball exercises done in a circut

more comments: I am frustruatred and bewildered. I am defintley having signs of overtaining....feel tired, lack of focus, and weaker. I know its not my diet cus my weight is actually up a little from last week(I weighed myself today just to rule out this varaible). I know the program works so that is out of the question. So it has to be recovery. Cus if it wasnt recovery and my linear gains simply stopped, I would not be getting weaker. But its wierd cus some exercises are still progressing, but then again I feel like shit so it has to be recovery. So what should I do? I am thinking of a couple options and would really appreciate everyone's advice...

a) reset the loads back 3 weeks. it would serve as a deload
b) maybe i need to change the means of training. in other words, start a new program. i mean i guess its possible that i have just about finished milking linear progress so i need to do a different program.

HELP!!!!!!!
 
If you have the info to hand, how about a little summary table like this and a pat on the back for getting this far? Congrats on running it for 14 weeks - same as me!

First off, don't worry too much, your world isn't coming to an end. I know I got stuck and didn't really know what to do when I stalled. To be honest, I probably should have carried on another week, just to make sure there was nothing left. It sounds like you could do with a bit of a break, which is how I felt.

Anyway, you knew you'd stall at some point and knew you'd have to change something, so this isn't unexpected. I took a week off, but I probably won't do it again because it upset my rhythm and it was too much of a change - too much of a deload. Personally, when I stall again, I'm going to try swapping to a different set/rep scheme, dropping the weight enough to give me at least 4 weeks of progression and starting over. I expect the different set/rep scheme will be refreshing and the reset will act as a mini deload.
 
Thanks for the reply AB. I did a table of my progress a little while back, but I will make an updated one as well.

You are right, I knew linear progress would stop at one point, just kinda hoping I could last a little longer. And you are also right....I feel like my world in ending for some reason, lol.

Anyway, what I am also worried about it the fact that I am tired, couldnt get focused at the gym, and actually got weaker. This leads me to believe I am overtraining.

So, AB(and others) how do you think I should go on from here? You mentioned working with different rep/set scheme and resetting back 4 weeks....how would this look on paper?

Again, thanks for the reply.
 
I felt like my world was ending too, lol. Just don't take a week off and then hurt your back when you jump back into it. THEN you'll know about lack of progress!

Sure, when you get into overreaching, you might get a bit weaker. Or it could just have been a bad day. That's why I wondered whether I ought to have carried on for a few more days, just to make sure.

On paper, I wasn't sure about different set/reps. I'm currently working with triples on some lifts and Sir BW kindly pointed out Prilepin's table. I'm doing flat 5x3 for bench and rows on Monday and military on Wednesday, and I'm ramping 8x3 for bench and rows on Friday. I haven't thrown in any back-off sets or cut down to singles or doubles (aka the SF 5x5's triple on Fridays), but I'm not too concerned about that. I'm starting easy and increasing the weights weekly. I expect it might last for about 10 weeks, then when I stall, I'll change it again, probably back to standard SF 5x5. And then when I stall yet again, I might try sets of 8, or try a higher workload like a mini load. Or I might try 8 reps, going down to doubles and singles over a period of weeks as things get hard, to keep the intensity increasing. Just playing basically, so long as I can keep the weights going up and setting a few PRs each time I ramp up.

I'll probably stick with the same exercises on the same days, just play with the intensity and volume.

There are plenty of other things you can try, but the above is what I'm thinking of doing for myself.
 
That plan sounds pretty good man....I might follow the anotherbutters/madcow SF 5x5 program :D Thanks for the link too. I will have to study that. What are you doing for squats and deadlifts....standard 5x5 protocol?

BTW, here is my progress over the 14 weeks...

lift......................starting 5RM........current 5 RM…….for the math impaired
bench press......... 175lbs................193lbs…………… +18lbs
squat.................. 225................... 250.………………..+25lbs
deadlift................ 245.................. 280.……………….+35lbs
row.................... 135....................152.………………..+17lbs
OH press..............115....................127.……………….+12lbs

weight: 161lbs to 166.5lbs.

appearnce: look bigger, yet I dont notice any body fat gains. if anything, maybe even more defintion.
 
Congrats on the strength gains, but I think you might have robbed yourself a little bit by only eating enough to put on 5.5lbs of bodyweight in 14 weeks. If you want to stay trim then fair enough. I went a bit crazy to be honest, actually setting myself a target of 1.5lbs per week gain, and it shows.

Deads and squats, I'm running standard 5x5. It's all in my journal ;)

EDIT: Oh, and the idea of changing to a different set/rep scheme wasn't mine, it was something Glenn Pendlay posted on here. I certainly can't take credit for that!
 
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