Report on 1st time in squat cage

[makedah]

Well, I finally understand why so many people skip squats...

I was just using the unweighted bar (I thought those things weighed 45 lbs?), which I didn't think would be that big of a difference from the two 20# dbs I had been holding at my sides or on my shoulders while squatting at home. Ha! It was much harder than I expected.

I was trying to remember good form: "Arch the back. Sit back, back, back on the descent. Don't let knees shoot out over the toes. Sink deeply. Press knees outward on the ascent." But more than anything else, I was afraid that the weight was going to pitch me forward, right onto my face. I was equally afraid that by arching my back, I would encourage the weight to slide down my back! So who knows what my form REALLY looked like. It felt really stiff. I made a mistake of wearing clothes that were so baggy that I couldn't check my form well in the mirror. My pants also kept sliding down a bit - whoops! My right wrist was aching in the third and final set (8 reps, 6, 6), no doubt exacerbated by the fact that the bar is thicker than the one I have at home.

Improving my squat is going to be quite the challenge! Man, it took effort just to stand up straight under that bar. My years of skipping core work (it was boring and hard and I hated getting on the floor) have finally bitten me in the butt!! Before, I'd only felt it in the glutes and thighs and didn't quite 'get it' when folks said it was a full-body exercise. Now I get it...

 

[Arioch]

You actually could try box squatting to start off with. Use a broomstick. This will ensure you can work on form and still hit depth.

Deadlift yet?

 

[makedah]

I think I was holding my shoulder blades together, but I definitely wasn't holding the bar around myself I like that description it's -- something to concentrate on next time. When I got home to look at the usual places I go for form pointers, I realized that I hadn't been looking up. Truth be told, I was often looking at the mirror to my right. (I know: Bad, bad makedah!) Which may explain this little crick in my right trap...

Non-floor core? I'm all ears...

 

[makedah]

Arioch,

I used to do something that looks and sounds like box squatting -- They were called hover squats and I did them off a chair, starting with a dowel and then later with a light bb. Are you talking about doing this with no weight to work on depth? A chair isn't very deep, of course. I guess I could turn my aerobic step (at 8" & 10") to the corner or use my workman's step (13.5") and use the dowel to practice going deeper.

I've deadlifted (sumo) - it's coming up on Friday. It's also very strenuous, of course, but I'm comfortable with my form on it. More than anything else, I think it's supporting weight on my back that threw me for a loop today - the upper body component of the squat.

 

[makedah]

I made sure not to put the bar on my sweet little vertebrae because I like them and need them!!! But I wouldn't be surprised if I was holding the bar high since I was scared that it would slip. So something else to take under advisement.

Thanks for the core tips!

 

[Hannibal]

I made sure not to put the bar on my sweet little vertebrae because I like them and need them!!! But I wouldn't be surprised if I was holding the bar high since I was scared that it would slip. So something else to take under advisement.

Thanks for the core tips!

One thing that I am sure Spatts can relate to is that you are going to have to build up your upper back so that you can comfortably carry the bar. When you don't have a large enough upper back the bar is more likely to roll.

Unless you are using a Smith Machine(please say no, please say no)?

Can you tell the the Smith Machine is frowned upon?

 

[Arioch]

Are you talking about doing this with no weight to work on depth? A chair isn't very deep, of course. I guess I could turn my aerobic step (at 8" & 10") to the corner or use my workman's step (13.5") and use the dowel to practice going deeper.

The step is a much better idea. Probably the best use you will ever get out of it. And not only practice depth, do not forget that you are learning a skill, and work on that first. You have the rest of your life to add weight.

 

[makedah]

Thanks all for your tips and encouragement! I'll definitely put them to use.

Spatts
I did indeed notice that I was leaning forward with the bar more on the ascent/descent more so than when I did squats at home.

Hannibal
Yeah, I'll definitely have to build the upper body. Most of women are weaker there before they start training but I'm even weaker than that. Last year, my tiny often sickly friend who weighs about 105 could do curls with the same weight that I could!

No, I wasn't using the Smith machine. I understand that it makes the spine do unnatural things. Hence, it is a tool of the devil. Or at least, that's what they told me in Sunday school...

 

[Gladiola]

The step is a much better idea. Probably the best use you will ever get out of it. .

Ahem

Hey Makedah, have you read the post by Arioch on squatting? It is a LOT of info - but should be helpful. Its in the "Great links sticky" above.

For CORE work - how about stability ball stuff? More fun then laying on the floor. Captain's chair or hanging leg & knee raises too.

 

[Hannibal]

Hannibal
Yeah, I'll definitely have to build the upper body. Most of women are weaker there before they start training but I'm even weaker than that. Last year, my tiny often sickly friend who weighs about 105 could do curls with the same weight that I could!

Well I was talkin more about upper body size. You need a thick upper back to support your squat, and to carry the bar in the right place.

 

[makedah]

Gladiola -- thanks. I found and bookmarked the page you mentioned. I do indeed have a stability ball. I much prefer working on it than the floor.

Hannibal -- I wondered if you were talking about upper back size as well. Yeah, that'd definitely something I'll have to work toward.

 

[Pink Space Biscuit]

You'll get the hang of it, my first time with my ex trainer was a complete disaster.

 

[Hannibal]

Hannibal -- I wondered if you were talking about upper back size as well. Yeah, that'd definitely something I'll have to work toward.

Some moves that you might not be familiar with, that will help with upper back thickness are.....Seated Power Cleans, Face Pulls, Rear Delt DB Flyes, Chest Supported Rows, or some variation of Kelso Shrugs.

Just search those words...they are explained numerous times.

 

[Hannibal]

...and the hang snatch.

You know what? I actually had that listed then I erased it. I'll let you explain it to her. It obviously is working for you...thank goodness.

Soon we will have the Modified Makedah Snatch

 

[Arioch]

http://www.allbookstores.com/book/093452338X

 

[makedah]

I've heard of some of those moves. I've done posterior delt flyes, but I know little about the rest of the moves. I'll look them up on the board and elsewhere.

 

[Arioch]

Yes, but this book is way up there on my recommended reading list. Not because it is a technical masterpiece, or covers everything like "Supertraining," but rather simply because he presents things so very well. This is getting to be a lost art.

His book, "Powerlifting Basics, Texas Style, the Adventures of Lope Delk" is another example of this. Not full of technical info, but puts the basics across in a very entertaining way. This is a great read after a couple of weeks on a research project.

 

[Hannibal]

While I have not been doing Kelso Shrugs as much as Spatts...I will have to say that I liked them. Could really feel them hitting where I wanted. Especially when supersetted with Chest supported rows.

Anyone interested could also try Hise Breathing Shrugs...these are great.

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_142short.html

 

[makedah]

Some moves that you might not be familiar with, that will help with upper back thickness are.....Seated Power Cleans, Face Pulls, Rear Delt DB Flyes, Chest Supported Rows, or some variation of Kelso Shrugs.

Just search those words...they are explained numerous times.

Is this the same thing as a "chest supported row"? http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBLyingRow.html

Or is it more like this?

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/LVInclineRow.html


I was going to add the Yates row back into my Back/Biceps day, which woudl make it look like this

deadlifts - on alt. weeks
lat pulldowns
yates rows
one-arm lat rows - may take these out, see below
bicep curls
back hypers

Of the exercises Hannibal mentioned, I was going to start with adding the posterior delt flyes or the rows because I'm more familiar with them. (I still need to research the cleans - will they stress my fooked rotator cuff? - and read more about the Kelso shrugs -- they do seem intriguing. The face pulls look good too, but I have to first see if my gym's lat pulldown machines can be adapted.) Would adding one of these to the above routine be overkill? If so, what should be removed? I'm already thinking that the one-arm lat rows should come out.

Also, I have to use tiny weights with the flyes, but I can row more. What difference does this make in chosing one move (if I have to chose one or the other) to strengthen and thicken up my upper back? Thanks!

 

[Hannibal]

deadlifts - on alt. weeks
lat pulldowns
yates rows
one-arm lat rows - may take these out, see below
bicep curls
back hypers

Not sure of your split....but the face pulls and seated power cleans could work on either back or shoulder day...since the area you are hitting is all connected.

With the exercises that you have listed I would do this:

Deadlifts-on alt weeks.....alt with Good Mornings (invaluable in helping your squat and building your posterior chain)
Chest Supported Row (Incline Lever Row)
Yates Row (if I was going use it I would use it here)
Lat Pulldowns (would use more close grips and underhanded grips)
Face Pulls
Bicep Curls
back hypers (opt.)

I am a big believer in not wasting effort on exercises that you don't need. But if your goal is hitting different angles...then variety is important.

Personally if I wanted to concentrate on building up my upper back...I would do fewers exercises but do more sets. If you start doing Good Mornings on a regular basis...you can probably eliminate the need for back hypers.

 

[makedah]

Thanks. Which of the above exercises would you think is less effective for my goals (I've explained them a little more below)? I'm also more interested in doing fewer, more efficient moves.

I'd love some feedback on the rest of my split which, for now, looks like this:

Legs
Squat
Leg press or step-ups (I haven't decided which yet - I was doing lunges but they still feel awkward to me and my wacky knees.)
SLDL
(I had calf raises in there but I took them out b/c I have muscular calves and calf work never feels strenuous. That was before I had access to a calf machine, though. I may add them back in if I feel I need to once the rest of my legs progress.)


Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
DB press
lateral raises (can't do OHPs)
lying triceps press
dips (off bench)
abs (was doing floor or swissball crunches - will try one or more of the non-floor exercises that Spatts recommended)


I'm doing a routine that I found online. After about a month of it, I'm feeling that I need to change it up more to suit my goals. My goal is to build overall body strength. I'm particularly looking forward to bringing up my weak upper body and improving my bad rotator cuff. (I also gotta address that core!)

I'm more than willing to jettison moves that won't help me as much with the major lifts. I'm not interested in 'contouring' the body to the extent that BBers are - I think they look great, that's just not my goal. I've been overweight for the past few years. Right now, I most desire to be within the 'normal' BF range for me and to be quite strong and in good cardio-vascular condition. Once I get there, then I'll re-evaluate...

 

[makedah]

Oh yeah -- when should I do the unweighted box work? I'm guessing that it would be on a day OTHER than the day that I do the weighted squats.