Public schools at it again

[Robert Jan]

I just wonder what public school haters suggest?

To not have schooling be mandatory and allow kids to just not get schooled altogether?

Does the USA really want a large portion of the next generation to be completely unschooled? What are you going to do with these people?

Basically the eternal complaint is that public school get a lot of funding and crappy results. Assuming that both are true, that still does not direct me to the conclusion that there should be no public schools.

Maybe it is possible to make the public school system better, more efficient.

 

[Spartacus]

Where did you ever come upon the idea that someone can ethically TAKE my money to use it for services for themselves, and this was OK?

I've said it a couple of times before in terms people on this board could perhaps identify with. How would you like it if you went to the gym and did 20 ass-busting sets,only to have half of them benefit you,while the other half went to others?

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

lol......i think matt should start his own country

There was once a country that was founded on the principles Matt espouses. It was called the United States of America. The problem is that the country has been hopelessly altered and these principles ignored. Now the people not only accept the big, overbearing federal government, but many wish it were even bigger. The tyranny of the majority took over long ago.

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

I just wonder what public school haters suggest?

To not have schooling be mandatory and allow kids to just not get schooled altogether?

Does the USA really want a large portion of the next generation to be completely unschooled? What are you going to do with these people?

Basically the eternal complaint is that public school get a lot of funding and crappy results. Assuming that both are true, that still does not direct me to the conclusion that there should be no public schools.

Maybe it is possible to make the public school system better, more efficient.

How about institute some form of competition into the mix? The public school system in America is so fucked up it's not funny. In many schools the teachers are not held accountable for the progress of the students, and they only advance in their job based on how long they've been teaching, not how well they've been teaching.

Another problem arises in urban public schools where there is an unwieldy bureaucracy sucking up half of the tax dollars before they're spent on the actual education. This is what happens when "nobody's" money is being spent. Nobody is worried about minimizing costs because the money's always rolling in from the taxes. Nobody in the school board administration personally feels the drain of inefficiency in their system.

 

[EnderJE]

The previous generations property taxes likely made your education possible.

Why does this generation have such a problem with paying back what it received?

The problem isn't so much taking the money or paying it back. The problem is the lack of perceived work for money or lack of accountability.

For example, when I pay taxes, I would really like to know how its being spent. I would like to know how much is going to the police, roads, healthcare, etc. Given this information, I can lobby or sent note to my local rep to suggest alterations. If nothing else, I get try and get a dialogue to see how people in my area feel as well.

 

[mordy]

Problems with public schools:

1. They don't actually prove or make the kids learn anything.
2. They spend a lot of money teaching people who can't perform much of a role in society (disabled, retards, etc) These people should get a cursory education that fits their capabilities, not strung a long like they were normal
3. They have been 'uplifting' students who are poor all around to keep them happy, ruining the education of the rest by lowering the standards. (they are too easy)
4. They are underfunded because they have too many kids to teach. Stop making so many damn kids people!!
5. They spend too much money dealing with kids impacted by poor lives at home!! (stop taking so many damn drugs and get off your asses you welfare sucking parasites!)

 

[Robert Jan]

Matt
You can have an individually isolated, self centered sense of morality, but you have to wake up to the cold fact that you actually DO live on this little planet with more than 6 billion other people and you live in your country with ~300 million other people.

Most members know I think about it this way and that you think about it your way but since you did too I will repeat myself...

I DO think people have the moral obligation to help others if it can be done in a constructive, humble way and I even think the right of people to basic help, outweighs the property rights of those who are not in need of money.

Some will argue "need" is hard to define but I find it rather simple, personal need to me is what one needs to be healthy and safe and have the ability to develop skills or knowledge fitting to their capacities and motivation. When you think about it this is a humble, basic definition. These are not comfortable leeches sitting back mocking the working man... These goals are realistic with a small budget...

That said it should be taken into account that not all that much of the budget actually goes to programs to help poor people get into a better situation. People equate helping poorer people in the first world to 50% taxes... that's rediculously skewed. In reality it does/would only take very little money from the average working man.

So the pessimists will say what about those who lack all motivation or capacity and would simply stick in this system forever. Well freaking let them. If this system would be run well it would provide only the NEEDS for these people... cheap simple food, cheap (secondhand) clothing and small, basic housing. This costs so little it's almost more desirable to just pay this than to have these people walk the streets homeless.
People for whom living this way is not enough incentive to get a job if they can, I don't think will get a job if they otherwise starve. I'd sooner see them start stealing.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Matt
You can have an individually isolated, self centered sense of morality, but you have to wake up to the cold fact that you actually DO live on this little planet with more than 6 billion other people and you live in your country with ~300 million other people.

Most members know I think about it this way and that you think about it your way but since you did too I will repeat myself...

I DO think people have the moral obligation to help others if it can be done in a constructive, humble way and I even think the right of people to basic help, outweighs the property rights of those who are not in need of money.

Some will argue "need" is hard to define but I find it rather simple, personal need to me is what one needs to be healthy and safe and have the ability to develop skills or knowledge fitting to their capacities and motivation. When you think about it this is a humble, basic definition. These are not comfortable leeches sitting back mocking the working man... These goals are realistic with a small budget...

That said it should be taken into account that not all that much of the budget actually goes to programs to help poor people get into a better situation. People equate helping poorer people in the first world to 50% taxes... that's rediculously skewed. In reality it does/would only take very little money from the average working man.

So the pessimists will say what about those who lack all motivation or capacity and would simply stick in this system forever. Well freaking let them. If this system would be run well it would provide only the NEEDS for these people... cheap simple food, cheap (secondhand) clothing and small, basic housing. This costs so little it's almost more desirable to just pay this than to have these people walk the streets homeless.
People for whom living this way is not enough incentive to get a job if they can, I don't think will get a job if they otherwise starve. I'd sooner see them start stealing.

This will elicit a small novel from a guy who became wealthy seeing that people do not necessarily receive insurance from their insurer. (ok...that is over simplified a tad)

Imagine the logic.

 

[Robert Jan]

I am the insured that did not receive his rightful insurance from his insurer.
what a coincidence

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

just for the record no tolls in my state

any car registration fees? Any other associated taxes and expenses associated with buying a car?

Any taxes on license plate renewal?