Public schools at it again

[Testosterone boy]

Before Test boy has a chance to say something like “anyone who thinks they know anything knows nothing” I would like to say that I know economic theory, is theory.

And I know that that makes it seem as if people like me and Matt might be building our ideal societies on shaky foundations, but by comparison socialists seem to expect their societies to float through the air with no foundation at all!

So even if we can’t know everything, we can at least try to use what science we know rather than sticking our heads up our butts.

Good for you but I would prefer that Matt stick his head up his butt at times.

 

[Tiervexx]

Good for you but I would prefer that Matt stick his head up his butt at times.

I like both of you so I will not comment on this, LOL.

 

[Robert Jan]

“If almost everyone is in favor of feeding the hungry, the politician may find it in his interest to do so. But, under those circumstances, the politician is unnecessary: some kind soul will give the hungry man a meal anyway. If the great majority is against the hungry man, some kind soul among the minority still may feed him-the politician will not.” –Dr. David D Friedman

In other words, there is no such thing as a system of government where the “needy” are not dependent on the altruism of the successful.

Many socialists want to talk about capitalism as if it will some how make the people greedier than they otherwise will be.

Yes, the current distribution of wealth is unnatural and a problem, but expanding government power will in reality take the wealth out of the hands of the few and put it in the hands of the fewer, in the hands of the government officials and those fortunate enough to be connected to them.

This happens because it is inevitable that government power will always attract power freaks, just like it always has in the past.

The idea held by many statists, that our economic condition is bad despite the government “help” would only make sense if this “help” predated the problem, but a careful study of the way our industry was changing between the mid 1800s and the great depression shows the opposite.

It was actually the middle class that was the fastest growing, and even though “the rich” where always worth more individually, the middle class as a whole still could claim most of the prosperity, it was also during this time that child labor, the long work days, and other such examples of capitalist “oppression” described by socialist where actually decreasing naturally.

It was not until the Great depression that people began to really doubt capitalism.

But the Great Depression was caused by the Federal Reserve (created, and operated by government). That means that by the wonders of statist logic, government actions where seen as justification for more government!

You do not account for the possibility of an enlightened authoritarian totalitarian system.

on a serious note you can say if people want to help a poor man they'll do it without the government. but there isn't one needy person to one succesful person it needs some kind of system

 

[Tiervexx]

You do not account for the possibility of an enlightened authoritarian totalitarian system.

Such a system would require mythical gods as leaders, not men. It really is an absurd pipe-dream.

on a serious note you can say if people want to help a poor man they'll do it without the government. but there isn't one needy person to one successful person it needs some kind of system

There are many self-sufficient people for every one dependent (or at least there would be if it was not for a ridiculous tax system) so it really is a much smaller problem than what you think it is.

Many socialists like to behave as if the "common man" who so badly needs help is the great majority, and therefore seems exploited by the top minority, but the truth is that in capitalist systems (not plutocracy) it is your definition of the "common man" that is the minority.

But your comment about needing a system suggests that you believe that a system must mean a government. The purpose of my earlier post was to point out that liberty is the mother of order, not its daughter.

 

[Robert Jan]

Such a system would require mythical gods as leaders, not men. It really is an absurd pipe-dream.

I was obviously being sarcastic

There are many self-sufficient people for every one dependent (or at least there would be if it was not for a ridiculous tax system) so it really is a much smaller problem than what you think it is.

you make a false assumption: I do know this

Many socialists like to behave as if the "common man" who so badly needs help is the great majority, and therefore seems exploited by the top minority, but the truth is that in capitalist systems (not plutocracy) it is your definition of the "common man" that is the minority.

same

But your comment about needing a system suggests that you believe that a system must mean a government. The purpose of my earlier post was to point out that liberty is the mother of order, not its daughter.
This I would like to see further explained

 

[ZKaudio]

more stupid kids? sweet... less competition for professional positions

 

[Tiervexx]

Robert Jan, it is a little hard to detect sarcasem over the internet, but I guess I missed the smily.

But government exists because there is a demand for order. Almost nobody would ever follow the rule of any government if it was not for the fear of chaos. Everything from welfare, police to militaries only exist because people want something that will perform those functions.

What I mean to say is this:

1) The fact that people vote for these things proves that there is more than enough of a demand for them. Enough of a demand to get the market to move to provide for them.
2) That the market is a much better source for these things because it is both more efficient, and gives people choice. A government provided service is one that all must accept, when dealing with private firms you reserve the all important right to say no.

 

[Tiervexx]

more stupid kids? sweet... less competition for professional positions

Exactly!

I can teach myself it needed. To hell with public education.