Primo and Short Cycles

[Barch]

Just happened to be randomly thinking about short vs. long cycles, etc... I was wondering if Primo could be effective in a short cycle.

I know that most around here recommend Primo for longer cycles, but would Primo work in a shorter cycles (2 on 3 off, repeat, type scenarios)? Most likely oral would be better in this situation, but how much, given it's relative inefficiency compared to injectable... 200mg/day? 250mg?

Swole? Needto? Nelson? Halfcenturian? Another bros in the know?

 

[swole]

Tough call, you're going to get mixed opinions.

Personally, anything less than 10 weeks on the enanthate ester would be a waste. I feel primo is best used long term...something like 12-20 week cycles. You get high quality dry gains but they take time. I didn't notice anything until week 7-8. After that the gains are cake If you ended it at 8 weeks you'd be robbing yourself of some incredible development.

Primo ace? Never used it.

And forget oral primo. For the amount you need to overcome the bioavailability issue you are wasting your time, financially and physically.

If you want to blast a short cycle get some prop, npp (short ester deca) and winstrol. I bet you can make 6 weeks worth your time with that bad boy.

 

[dabuffguy]

only prop/susp, npp, tren ace and orals are good for 6 week cycles. everything else should be 10 weeks plus.

primo is not a short term gainer at all.

 

[Barch]

The reason I had mentioned oral Primo is because I happen to have some. So, I figure until I get some injectable, I might as well use it some way or another! I've heard differing opinions on how much is required, but it seems that most say 100mg/day is the bare minimum. So, I'm thinking maybe 200mg-250mg/day? Still haven't figured out how to put it all together, but I appreciate all the good input!

 

[Barch]

Another thought just crossed my mind... Should I wait until I can get some injectable Primo and somehow combine into a cycle with the oral? Does that make any sense? Of course, all of this will most likely be done along with some Prop.

 

[dabuffguy]

The reason I had mentioned oral Primo is because I happen to have some. So, I figure until I get some injectable, I might as well use it some way or another! I've heard differing opinions on how much is required, but it seems that most say 100mg/day is the bare minimum. So, I'm thinking maybe 200mg-250mg/day? Still haven't figured out how to put it all together, but I appreciate all the good input!

oral primo in tabs, caps or paper?


I'd let it dissolve under your tongue regardless of how you have it for better absorption into the blood stream.

 

[Nelson Montana]

People say to run Primo longer because it takes more time to notice the results. A few ounces can't be seen but a few pounds can. The thing is, you don't gain the weight all at the end. You put on just as much muscle in the beginning (if not more) than after 6 weeks, it's just the cumulation is more noticeable over time.

However, I think 2 weeks is too short and no matter what, EVERY steroid is suppressive and it takes a few months to recover fully.

For a first or second run , 4 weeks is fine to make modest gains. After that, 6 weekers are best. Once you go over 12 weeks, it's really a pointless argument. You're shut down and do that 3-4 times and most probably will never recover fully no matter what.

 

[josenunes]

People say to run Primo longer because it takes more time to notice the results. A few ounces can't be seen but a few pounds can. The thing is, you don't gain the weight all at the end. You put on just as much muscle in the beginning (if not more) than after 6 weeks, it's just the cumulation is more noticeable over time.

However, I think 2 weeks is too short and no matter what, EVERY steroid is suppressive and it takes a few months to recover fully.

For a first or second run , 4 weeks is fine to make modest gains. After that, 6 weekers are best. Once you go over 12 weeks, it's really a pointless argument. You're shut down and do that 3-4 times and most probably will never recover fully no matter what.

I thought you recommended 3 weeks short cycles not 4, have you changed your mind?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I thought you recommended 3 weeks short cycles not 4, have you changed your mind?

Are you referring to the SFH article I wrote 11 years ago? Back then I said 3 weeks with a one week taper. I've made a few revisions in the last decade. I think we can safely say we're splitting hairs here.

 

[Barch]

Nelson, with a 4 weeker, do you recommend a certain structure (e.g. 4 weeks on/ x weeks off, repeat)?

 

[ALIN]

Just happened to be randomly thinking about short vs. long cycles, etc... I was wondering if Primo could be effective in a short cycle.

I know that most around here recommend Primo for longer cycles, but would Primo work in a shorter cycles (2 on 3 off, repeat, type scenarios)? Most likely oral would be better in this situation, but how much, given it's relative inefficiency compared to injectable... 200mg/day? 250mg?

Swole? Needto? Nelson? Halfcenturian? Another bros in the know?

I would say NO. save the PRIMO for when you can run a higher mg for longer periods.

 

[Barch]

I would say NO. save the PRIMO for when you can run a higher mg for longer periods.

What length/dosage do you recommend and why? Just trying to hear as many opinions as possible before making a decision. Thanks!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, with a 4 weeker, do you recommend a certain structure (e.g. 4 weeks on/ x weeks off, repeat)?

I believe time off should be at least TWICE the length of the time on.

 

[Barch]

I believe time off should be at least TWICE the length of the time on.

That's NOT including PCT, correct? Also, I was wondering how you came to 6 weeks as an ideal? I've heard lots of people say that 4 weeks is the limit before total HPTA shutdown (don't know where this came from either). Is this anecdotal/personal experience or are there any studies on the subject?

 

[josenunes]

Are you referring to the SFH article I wrote 11 years ago? Back then I said 3 weeks with a one week taper. I've made a few revisions in the last decade. I think we can safely say we're splitting hairs here.

Yeah, probably, I`m currently using your protocol , I`m in the second week(9 days) of 100 mg primo eod, andriol 8 caps /day and methyl stenbolone(mass tabs) , so far I`m up 3 pounds, and I plan to change the mass tabs for var just like you wrote (on the 3rd week), well after reading this I`ll probably go one more week with the same primo dosage.
My objective is only 10 lean pounds, I cant go heavier cause I play soccer and is hard to run if I pass that weight.
Thanks

 

[halfcenturian]

Just happened to be randomly thinking about short vs. long cycles, etc... I was wondering if Primo could be effective in a short cycle.

I know that most around here recommend Primo for longer cycles, but would Primo work in a shorter cycles (2 on 3 off, repeat, type scenarios)? Most likely oral would be better in this situation, but how much, given it's relative inefficiency compared to injectable... 200mg/day? 250mg?

Swole? Needto? Nelson? Halfcenturian? Another bros in the know?

Let's get back to your original question. Go with what Swole said. He is the King of Primo. I totally agree.
If you are going to run PRIMO, and want to get the best results from PRIMO, then run it for 4 months.
400-600/wk. Half dose on Monday. Second half Thurs.

As you probably know, Primo is like maple syrup in February. THICK.
Heat it up and it will draw into syringe and inject with much less effort. Oh ya, it hurts too.
Go nice and deep with 1.5" X 22 or 23g needle.
Too shallow of an injection will leave a lump. So massage injection site a little.
Dive...Dive...Dive!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Let's get back to your original question. Go with what Swole said. He is the King of Primo. I totally agree.
If you are going to run PRIMO, and want to get the best results from PRIMO, then run it for 4 months.
400-600/wk. Half dose on Monday. Second half Thurs.

As you probably know, Primo is like maple syrup in February. THICK.
Heat it up and it will draw into syringe and inject with much less effort. Oh ya, it hurts too.
Go nice and deep with 1.5" X 22 or 23g needle.
Too shallow of an injection will leave a lump. So massage injection site a little.
Dive...Dive...Dive!

At that point it doesn't matter. 4 months, six months, six years. Doesn't matter. Of course the more you take and the longer you take it the better the results. But that has nothing to do with trying to maintain a functional HPTA.

Most evidence is anecdotal in the area of length. I believe you can get away with a month with very little shutdown. 6 weeks requires a good PCT. But there are studies that show anything over 12 weeks causes a total halt to LH production.

jonunes, you're doing a variation of the "perfect cycle?" That's very specific and changing it kinda negates the purpose, but you should make nice lean gains with what you're doing. Andriol is VERY weak though. Train hard and eat clean and you should be happy with the results.

 

[halfcenturian]

Tough call, you're going to get mixed opinions.

Personally, anything less than 10 weeks on the enanthate ester would be a waste. I feel primo is best used long term...something like 12-20 week cycles. You get high quality dry gains but they take time. I didn't notice anything until week 7-8. After that the gains are cake If you ended it at 8 weeks you'd be robbing yourself of some incredible development.

Primo ace? Never used it.

And forget oral primo. For the amount you need to overcome the bioavailability issue you are wasting your time, financially and physically.

If you want to blast a short cycle get some prop, npp (short ester deca) and winstrol. I bet you can make 6 weeks worth your time with that bad boy.

That's the protocol for Primo.


.

 

[aquatic_glories]

Nelson , we would like you to share those papers with us if you have them. Or find them whenever you have time.

Thanks

 

[Nelson Montana]

That's the protocol for Primo.


.

According to whom? Protocols come and go.

 

[Barch]

Well, it seems like we've got some healthy debating going on here. I guess just like any other science, this thing of ours is not exact. At the moment I'm torn between a nice, long, fruitful cycle and shorter, less HPTA effected, and healthier cycle. Decisions, decisions...

 

[halfcenturian]

According to whom? Protocols come and go.

Chill, Nelson......... I'm not going to argue over this.

Most people who run Primo agree that one should cycle for 14-20 weeks for optimum benefit.

I haven't taken a poll, and I don't have a double blind study to prove that, nor do I need one.

That's how I advise someone to run Primo. You are welcome to your opinion and protocols.

Good night to you, sir.

 

[lookinfit75]

At that point it doesn't matter. 4 months, six months, six years. Doesn't matter. Of course the more you take and the longer you take it the better the results. But that has nothing to do with trying to maintain a functional HPTA.

Most evidence is anecdotal in the area of length. I believe you can get away with a month with very little shutdown. 6 weeks requires a good PCT. But there are studies that show anything over 12 weeks causes a total halt to LH production.

jonunes, you're doing a variation of the "perfect cycle?" That's very specific and changing it kinda negates the purpose, but you should make nice lean gains with what you're doing. Andriol is VERY weak though. Train hard and eat clean and you should be happy with the results.

I am curious Nelson. Is the supression going to happenen no matter what you do? You're product is supposed to counteract those suppresive effects as do the products of others. Furthermore, you've stated that running HCG while on cycle will prevent desesitization of the testes. I've also read that from the sites of doctors who recommend HRT or TRT. Is that no longer the consensus?

And please Nelson, don't take this as an attack as I am geninely interested in your opinion. After all, I have bought both your books so I do hold your opinion in high esteme.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Chill, Nelson......... I'm not going to argue over this.

..............................................

I'M CHILLED. GLAD TO HEAR YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ARGUE BUT FEEL FREE TO DEFEND YOUR POSITION. .


......................

Most people who run Primo agree that one should cycle for 14-20 weeks for optimum benefit.

...............................................

THAT MAY BE YOUR EXPERIENCE BUT IT ISN'T THE "CONSENSUS", UNLESS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT MESSAGE BOARD FASHION. I CAN NAME MANY WHO DISAGREE, SOME OF WHOM ARE TITLE HOLDERS.


.........................................................

I haven't taken a poll, and I don't have a double blind study to prove that, nor do I need one.

...........................................

I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT THAT YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAY.



..........................................................


That's how I advise someone to run Primo. You are welcome to your opinion and protocols.

Good night to you, sir

........................................

THAT'S COOL. BUT THE REALITY IS WHAT IT IS. STAY ON FOR 4 MONTHS AND YOU'RE SHUT DOWN AND MOST LIKELY PERMANENTLY SUPPRESSED. IF YOU DON'T MIND THAT, FINE...BUT SINCE I HAVE A REPUTATION IN THIS INDUSTRY TO UPHOLD I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING INTO.




.

..

 

[Nelson Montana]

I am curious Nelson. Is the supression going to happenen no matter what you do? You're product is supposed to counteract those suppresive effects as do the products of others. Furthermore, you've stated that running HCG while on cycle will prevent desesitization of the testes. I've also read that from the sites of doctors who recommend HRT or TRT. Is that no longer the consensus?

And please Nelson, don't take this as an attack as I am geninely interested in your opinion. After all, I have bought both your books so I do hold your opinion in high esteme.

My products do help but nothing is a sure fire preventative against flagrant abuse.

Yes, too much HCG can cause imunity to it but I also recommend a small shot once the testes show signs of atrophy. I use 1500 iu's of HCG once every 2 months while on HRT.

 

[the elite addict]

3-4 weeks of primo? you must be kidding me. Why bother? It should be run at a min. of 400mg a week for ateast 12-14 weeks.

 

[Nelson Montana]

3-4 weeks of primo? you must be kidding me. Why bother? It should be run at a min. of 400mg a week for ateast 12-14 weeks.

It's that type of thinking that is the reason dosages are higher than they were for pros 20 years ago and most guys using look like they barely work out.

I'd like to see that trend stop but I doubt it will.

 

[Barch]

I've heard that short cycles are very common amongst the European BB community. I do have to say, it seems like a lot of people on the internet recommend starting with very high doses. I made the same mistake myself, listening to people on the net, by starting with 500mg/week of Test when in retrospect I think I could have done just as well on 300mg or so.

 

[Barch]

Kind of a different question, but would HcG be necessary for a cycle with 400mg Primo/250mg Prop?

 

[josenunes]

Kind of a different question, but would HcG be necessary for a cycle with 400mg Primo/250mg Prop?

if you pass the 6 weeks, yes .
why dont you try a short cycle and see if it works on you , if it does wonderful, if it doesn't well adjust dosage and length, etc...

 

[Barch]

Jose,

That's what I've been thinking about doing.

 

[halfcenturian]

Run the Primo for 16 weeks. Get some HCG and Aromasin and dose accordingly.

You will thank me around Christmas.

.

 

[josenunes]

Jose,

That's what I've been thinking about doing.

well so far so good, 12 days on cycle only 4 pounds up but a crispy look like I never had before, 2 guys already asked what I`m on
I personally agree with Nelson on trying short cycles, you`ll never get huuuuge but with a bigger look and healthy, your htpa will thank you also

 

[josenunes]

jonunes, you're doing a variation of the "perfect cycle?" That's very specific and changing it kinda negates the purpose, but you should make nice lean gains with what you're doing. Andriol is VERY weak though. Train hard and eat clean and you should be happy with the results.

Nelson , one of the things I`m noticing is that my joints are working like never before, I`m felling great, is this normal with primo?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson , one of the things I`m noticing is that my joints are working like never before, I`m felling great, is this normal with primo?

You're probably just stronger. Primo is an underrated strength compound.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Honestly, if you think running a test cycle for less than 10 weeks you're going to keep all your gains, then you're really mistaken. Test needs to be run 12-16 weeks. Anythng shorter than that and you'll not be getting the full benefits of the test or the cycle. This is a process, not like an oral were you can run test for 4 weeks and see some instant results...you might see some good gains, but 4 weeks after, you're going to lose 50% of it...

I think a good 14 weeks of test with a proper PCT and a good diet will help you keep most gains...

Nelson, you're going to get supressed if you run test for 2-3 weeks, so why not for 14-16 weeks? I'm not sayng to never come off, but I'm saying not to waste that shit...