Nolvadex Will Not Get Rid Of Gyno

[el cubano]

Here's a much more trusted study for you.


MONTREAL, QC -- July 12, 2001 -- Doctors in Canada, have determined that both tamoxifen and raloxifene can be used to treat pre-pubertal gynecomastia.

This condition, an excessive development of male breasts, occurs in up to 65 percent of young boys and may be deemed clinically significant in 10-15 percent.

While the condition resolves spontaneously in approximately 90 percent of cases over a three year period, the psychological and emotional impact in the meantime can be devastating for these young patients.

The investigators, headed by Dr. Sarah Muirhead, an associate professor of medicine at the University of Ottawa and staff endocrinologist at Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario (CHEO), presented these findings yesterday (July 11th, 2001) at the 6th joint meeting of the Lawson Wilkins Pediatric Endocrine Society and the European Society for Paediatric Endocrinology (ESPE), in collaboration with the Australasian Paediatric Endocrine Group, the Japanese Society for Pediatric Endocrinology, and the Latin American Society for Paediatric Endocrinology held in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

The tamoxifen/raloxifene breakthrough is significant because surgery used to be the only management option. Previous attempts to manage the condition medically by altering the testosterone/estrogen ratio have only been partially effective and have included such drugs as danazol (normally used to treat endometriosis), aromatase inhibitors, and dihydro-testosterone.

Tamoxifen is a competitive inhibitor of estrogen binding in the breast, whereas raloxifene is a selective estrogen receptor modulator, the investigators explained.

In the study, 14 subjects received tamoxifen 10-20 mg/day for three to six months, while nine subjects received 60 mg/day of raloxifene for three to six months. A group of 13 received no medications and were used as a control group.

The mean age of these boys was 14 years, and all were of normal body mass index. Those who received tamoxifen had had the condition for a mean period of 18.9 months, while those randomized to raloxifene had the condition for an average of 37.2 months.

Both of these estrogen receptor blockers were effective in treating gynecomastia, although the response was greater for raloxifene. In the tamoxifen group, the mean nodule size was 4.6 cm before treatment and 2.1 cm post-treatment, for a reduction in size of 56 percent.

In the raloxifene group, pre-treatment nodule size was 4.9 cm and post-treatment size was 1.6 cm -- a reduction in size of 73 percent. It was not stated over what period of time these changes occurred.

The investigators report that overall, 91 percent of the subjects showed a positive response. These results were especially encouraging given that the subjects had had the condition for extended periods of time, and given that the breast nodules were large. It was also encouraging that no side effects were seen in either group of patients, including to liver function.

Despite the safety of the drug and the seemingly impressive results seen here, Dr. Muirhead and her group caution that, due to the lack of follow-up in untreated patients, it is not clear whether treatment was more effective than observation alone. To resolve that question, a larger, randomized, placebo-controlled trial using raloxifene has been planned, she said.


Note, it did NOT cure gyno.

 

[el cubano]

And yet some more info from a more reliable source.

Ask the Medical Experts - Treatment for Gynecomastia
June 2000

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Q. I am an 18-year-old male, and have had gynecomastia since I was 12. In these six years, I have only been offered only two options: an expensive surgical procedure or "living with it." I did some research of my own, and heard that certain anti-estrogens, like Teslac, have proved effective in reducing the breast tissue. Why has this not been presented as a treatment alternative? Can a physician prescribe these drugs? It just seems like a better option than cutting open my chest.

A. Gynecomastia, enlargement of the male breast tissue, is quite common, especially in adolescence, the obese and in older men. It usually is benign without a clear cause (idiopathic). In a small percentage of cases, there can be other causes such as tumors of the adrenal gland, testicles or pituitary gland. Certain drugs such as Tagamet, estrogen, Valium and alcohol can cause gynecomastia. I assume you have been evaluated by your doctor for such other causes, and likely, none were found.

The treatment for idiopathic gynecomastia usually does involve making a decision between leaving it alone or surgery to remove the excess breast tissue. There have been some studies looking at drugs that block estrogen production or that block estrogen receptors, such as Teslac (testolactone) and Tamoxifen. These drugs do seem to have some beneficial effects in reducing gynecomastia, but they also can have adverse effects such as hypertension (increased blood pressure) with Teslac, and increasing the risk of blood clots with Tamoxifen. Neither of these drugs are FDA approved for treatment of gynecomastia. In fact, in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference), Teslac is contraindicated in the treatment of Breast Cancer in Males. I believe more studies would be needed to prove the effectiveness and safety of these drugs in treatment of gynecomastia before they should be FDA approved.

In summary, I would not recommend either of the above prescription drugs for treatment of gynecomastia. Certainly, measures such as trying to obtain ideal body weight and avoiding alcohol are recommended. However, the final choice in management was pretty well summed up by you; learning to accept it versus surgical treatment.

I really like the last paragraph on this one.

 

[el cubano]

Check out this kids gyno!!!!!!!!!

 

[el cubano]

Here's some info my health care provider just emailed me.

Gynecomastia, which translates to “female breast”, is a condition in which firm breast tissue forms in males. The breasts enlarge and may become tender. This enlargement may be present on one or both sides. Most of the time the enlargement is on both sides and the amount of enlargement can vary widely. The most severe cases may have an increase to a C or D cup size. Some men or boys have fat on their chest that makes them appear as if they have breasts. This is not the same as gynecomastia. This is called pseudogynecomastia (false gynecomastia).
What causes gynecomastia?

This condition is usually caused by changes in hormone levels. Gynecomastia may occur at puberty or as part of the aging process when the activity of the testes begins to decrease. Gynecomastia is most common during puberty. As many as 65% of 14 year-old boys have this condition and 90% of teenage boys have total regression (it completely goes away) in about 18 months to three years without any treatment.

Gynecomastia may be caused by changes in the balance of estrogen and testosterone. During puberty, there may be a temporary lag in the production of testosterone behind that of estrogen resulting in breast development. Furthermore, men who are undergoing treatment for prostate or testicular cancer, for example, may be given estrogen as part of their treatment. The majority of these men receiving estrogen will develop gynecomastia.

Use of estrogens and androgens for body building purposes as well as marijuana use can result in gynecomastia. In rare cases, this condition can be caused by prescription medication side effects, chronic liver disease, genetic disorders, and tumors.

Is this breast cancer?

Probably not. Breast cancer is very rare in males. Although there have been no reported cases of breast cancer resulting from gynecomastia, there have been 2 case reports of gynecomastia with atypical changes. This suggests that it may be possible for these atypical changes to progress to cancer. The biggest problem lies in that it may be difficult to decide if the changes are caused only by the condition of gynecomastia or if there is a breast cancer. Both conditions may cause masses under the areola and pain and tenderness. It is important to remember that these symptoms are more common with gynecomastia. If your healthcare provider questions the possibility of cancer, he/she may ask you to have a mammogram and/or a biopsy.

How is gynecomastia treated?

Most of the time there is no treatment needed. Your healthcare provider may have you come in every few months to measure the size of the breasts. If medications or illegal drugs are being used that may be causing this condition, the healthcare provider may have you stop taking these medications/drugs. Sometimes, if tenderness is a significant problem, you may be given medications to help the extra breast tissue go away. On rare occasions, surgery may be needed to remove the extra breast tissue.

If surgery is needed, the incision is usually placed just inside the areolar (colored area around the nipple) border. This helps to hide the surgical scar. The glandular tissue is removed and in some cases, liposuction is used to remove some of the fatty tissue that surrounds the ductal tissue.

What are the emotional impacts?

Gynecomastia is a significant source of embarrassment of teenage boys. They are usually reluctant to discuss their concerns and are likely to try and hide their appearance under clothing. They may try to avoid gym classes, athletic activities, swimming, or beach activities. Dr. Susan Love, in her book Dr. Susan Love’s Breast Book (1995 Published by Addison Wesley), describes a 7th grade boy who was so humiliated with his gynecomastia that he paid another boy to push him into the swimming pool so that he didn’t have to take off his shirt to swim. This also avoided the need for him to explain why he was swimming with his shirt on.

This side effect of genital cancer treatment in the older men can be very disturbing as well. It is important to contact your healthcare provider if you or someone you know is experiencing these changes. There may be treatment available to help. And remember this is not that uncommon.

 

[el cubano]

And yet more info.


GYNECOMASTIA
During puberty, enlargement of the male breast is normal and is usually transient. Similar changes may occur during senescence. Gynecomastia in both sexes may be caused by various diseases (especially of the liver), by drug therapy (eg, estrogens, reserpine, digitalis, isoniazid, spironolactone, Ca channel blockers, ketoconazole, theophylline, cimetidine, metronidazole, methadone, antineoplastic drugs), by marijuana use, and, less commonly, by endocrine disorders. Ultrasonography of the testis can detect estrogen-secreting testicular tumors, and CT or MRI of the abdomen can detect estrogen-secreting adrenal tumors.

Gynecomastia may be unilateral or bilateral. Most of the enlargement is usually due to proliferation of stroma, not of breast ducts. The patient may experience some tenderness, which is generally associated with benign causes. In most cases, no specific treatment is needed because gynecomastia remits or disappears after the drug is withdrawn or the underlying disorder is treated. Hormonal therapies have not been validated. Surgical removal of the excess breast tissue (eg, suction lipectomy alone or with cosmetic surgery) is occasionally the only effective treatment.

 

[nandi12]

Now with all these side effects they are finding with use in women, who is to tell what it is doing to us men, besides some bogus studies done in Hong Kong????

Postgrad Med 1991 Feb 1;89(2):191-3

Gynecomastia. A bothersome but readily treatable problem.
Jacobs MB.
Division of General Internal Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine, CA 94305-5320.

Although breast enlargement in boys and men can cause both psychological and physical distress, the disorder is rarely serious and is readily treatable. Several factors can lead to the estrogenic excess that causes growth of breast tissue. Dr Jacobs describes a patient with gynecomastia related to cirrhosis of the liver who responded promptly to a brief course of tamoxifen citrate therapy..


Urology 1997 Dec;50(6):929-33
Tamoxifen for flutamide/finasteride-induced gynecomastia.
Staiman VR, Lowe FC.
Department of Urology, St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center, New York, NY 10019, USA.

OBJECTIVES: Current therapies for advanced prostate carcinoma lead to a marked decrease in serum testosterone levels, which renders patients impotent. In preliminary studies, combination therapy with flutamide and finasteride has been used as an alternative therapy for the treatment of prostate carcinoma because potency can be preserved. Both of these agents can cause gynecomastia and breast/nipple tenderness. METHODS: Six men being treated for advanced prostate carcinoma with flutamide/finasteride combination therapy developed painful gynecomastia, which was treated with tamoxifen 10 to 30 mg/day for 1 month. Clinical follow-up included breast measurements and determination of prostate-specific antigen (PSA), testosterone, and estradiol levels. RESULTS: While on this
combination therapy for prostate carcinoma, 4 of 6 patients experienced a decrease in PSA level to less than 0.5 ng/mL. All patients remained potent. Serum testosterone increased in each patient who had a baseline level drawn. Estradiol levels were noted to be elevated in 4 of 6 patients at the time of evaluation for gynecomastia. After treatment with tamoxifen, circulating estradiol levels increased in 3 patients from 1.3 to 2.2 times the baseline level. .Five patients experienced complete resolution of breast and nipple pain on tamoxifen 10 mg/day within the first month. The other patient had to be treated with 30 mg/day for 1 additional month, which subsequently resulted in pain resolution. . CONCLUSIONS: These preliminary results suggest that low-dose tamoxifen is useful in treating painful gynecomastia for those patients on flutamide/finasteride combination therapy for advanced prostate carcinoma.


Dtsch Med Wochenschr 1984 Nov 2;109(44):1678-82

[Testosterone and estradiol levels in male gynecomastia. Clinical and endocrine findings during treatment with tamoxifen]

[Article in German]

Eversmann T, Moito J, von Werder K.

Oestradiol-(E2) levels in serum were significantly higher in a group of 91 males with gynaecomastia than in a control group. The levels were highest in patients with testicular tumour, hyperprolactinaemia and idiopathic gynaecomastia. In gynaecomastia of puberty and primary or secondary hypogonadism, the E2 level was within normal limits, but the testosterone/oestradiol ratio was significantly reduced. Tamoxifen, at a daily dose of 20 mg, was administered over 2-4 months to 16 patients with gynaecomastia. Of twelve patients with painful gynaecomastia ten became painfree. .Gynaecomastia regressed partially or completely in 14 patients, in only 2 was it unchanged. There was no recurrence of gynaecomastia after discontinuing tamoxifen. Side-effects did not occur. It is concluded that tamoxifen is a promising alternative to the surgical treatment of gynaecomastia.

I could go on, but I think the point has been made.

BTW, I guess I should throw out my tren because it "does not have FDA approval for use in humans" and has some side effects.

 

[el cubano]

Now if you've read some of the studies and posts I've put up you would realize that for every one of your posts I can make a post disputing it. It's just nonsense. Plus, I also stated I am speaking from my own experience also. You can post these studies til you are blue in the face, the complete resolution is not true because once you have gyno you will always have it, meaning that you will always have to use nolvadex, arimidex or femara to combat it while on a cycle. And just because you use nolvadex and it SHRINKS to where it is not noticeable doesn't mean that it won't come back later without even using steroids, as stated in several of my studies. Also, none of your studies mention anything about follow up studies either.

 

[el cubano]

Also, even in your own last post, it states that it did not get rid of gyno. Your article states "Gynaecomastia regressed" and "complete resolution of breast and nipple pain". Never does it say it got rid of gyno.

Also, nolvadex is approved by the FDA dummy. Why don't you try not only reading my posts, but your own too.

 

[el cubano]

I'd like to add, I think that you are very confused. I am not telling people not to use nolvadex. I definitely believe nolvadex is necessary, I'm just letting people know that it will NOT cure gyno. Nothing but surgery will cure gyno. Nolvadex simply controls it.

 

[2000maximaSE]

Good post bro. There is a lot of misunderstanding over the whole concept.

-Pfieff