Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.

[Realgains]

I will be startng a test/dbol cycle in febuary and I have more than enough dbol for my cycle and have been contemplating on whether or not to do a short (4 weeks or so) dbol only cycle at 10-20 mg per day. If I was to do this would I need arimidex? And what about clomid? I have both of these for my planned cycle in feb but it seems kinda riduculous to use them for such a small dbol only cycle. What are any of ya'lls thoughts on this matter. Should I just wait until feb or is the short dbol only cycle worth doing??? This thread seems quite encouraging but what are the anti-e rules or advice for such small dosage cycles... Thanks.

wait until February and get your training in line with my last post.

Don't use estrogen inhibitors unless you absolutely need to as they really mess with your lipid profile. Steroids plus an estrogen inhibitor = avery shitty lipid profile with a terrible hdl to total cholesterol profile.

Have clomid or nolva on hand and if the nipples get sore in the slightest then jump on 20 of nolva per day or 50 of clomid per day....they are almost the exact same drug and both work as estrogen blockers.

Clomid ALWAYS a 300mg on day one in divided doses two weeks after the last cyp or eneathte dose and three weeks after sust. Then take 50 per day for at least 4 weeks.

If you did a deca only cycle at 400 with test on hand(100per week) just in case your libido suffers(which I doubt) the you wouldn't need a thing to combat acne, bloat, hair loss gyno etc. Or you could start the cycle with d-bol for 4-6 weeks along with the deca and run the deca for 10 weeks.

Test/d-bol is a powerful stack and very androgenic but if you keep the dose sane then you shouldn't have a problem.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Re: Reagains

Hi Realgains ,
I've posted on one of your threads before and will be starting the short cycle you recomended ,however just to clarify , I believe that Arnold was famous for gulping down 9 dianabol (45mgs!) in a single dose with milk , so I reckon that means he took about 50 (250mgs) of dbol a day which is a lot , even by some of the more excessive board members standards. Please confirm if Mentzer used 20 dbol (100 mgs) of dbol a day or just 20mgs/day. I also train like him and grow pretty well although I'm pretty locked out at 225/230lbs and 6'.

If Arnold gulped down 45 at a time then he would have done that several times per day and would have taken 200-250 per day like you said!!!........ He would now likely be either dead(like old pro Dave Johns who used a lot of 17 aa roids) or suffer from serious liver problems.
Arnold would have a good lauhg at that one.

Arnold did come out a few years ago and say that todays pro's take FAR FAR MORE than anyone did in his day and that he thought this Mass at any cost ideation was NUTS. He also said that the pro's today don't look good for the most part as they are unbalanced and too huge! Can you imagine Arnold of all people saying that the pro's are too huge!!

Mentzer said he used 20-30 of d-bol PER DAY in divided doses along with 400 of Deca prior to the 80 Olympia.
Thats a classic stack and a very good one too.
Mentzer "told everything like it was" and was discusted with the other pro's like Arnold that hid their steroid use.
Anyone who knows Mentzer knew that he would have never bullshitted about his steroid use. In fact Mentzer was the first pro of that day to come out and fully and freely admit that he used roids.



RG

 

[Mandinka2]

Realgains

If Arnold gulped down 45 at a time then he would have done that several times per day and would have taken 200-250 per day like you said!!!........ He would now likely be either dead(like old pro Dave Johns who used a lot of 17 aa roids) or suffer from serious liver problems.

I'm afraid that was what was published in the unauthorised bio a few years back , I'd say it's fairly accurate from the level of research done and the way he used to be nonchalant about his health , getting drunk every year for a few weeks at a time at the Munich Oktoberfest. So Mike (Mentzer) took only 20-30mgs , right? That just shows what a super drug dbol is. I'm gonna do tren and IP winny for the first two weeker , then dbol and tren after that (6 weeks between cycles). Whaddaya think?

 

[Realgains]

Re: Realgains

I'm afraid that was what was published in the unauthorised bio a few years back , I'd say it's fairly accurate from the level of research done and the way he used to be nonchalant about his health , getting drunk every year for a few weeks at a time at the Munich Oktoberfest. So Mike (Mentzer) took only 20-30mgs , right? That just shows what a super drug dbol is. I'm gonna do tren and IP winny for the first two weeker , then dbol and tren after that (6 weeks between cycles). Whaddaya think?

That would be fine but the second one will results in a few more pounds over the first combo. Remember though the very short cycles require fairly high doses as one is trying to fully saturate AR in such a short time period.
Expect very few sides though. You will probably keep 5-7 pounds on each cycle and that will be pure muscle.
Sure beats training naturally where it takes all year to gain 5-10 pounds once you have been training for a while.
Those that have been training very hard for years are lucky to gain 3 pounds of pure muscle per year so the two weeker will seem like magic to them.

RG

 

[Qrios]

Realgains, (or anyone else with an opinion)
What do you think of the argument that "if you shut down your own test production you should make it worth it"?

 

[Realgains]

Realgains, (or anyone else with an opinion)
What do you think of the argument that "if you shut down your own test production you should make it worth it"?

Yes that is a valid point....... and all the cycles I gave as examples will shut you down COMPLETELY except perhpas low dose Primo at 200 per week and the small dose of d-bol at 10mg (although not 20)......although I am certain it to will have some affect over time.

The hypothalamus will sence ANY increase in androgen level as a reason to shut down test production. If it sences 25% above normal then it will shut down test production by 25%, if it sences 50% above normal then down goes 50%. The doses I gave will result in over 100% more androgen so the testes will in time(fairly rapidly) shut down .
It doesn't take a 500-1000mg per week to shut down HPTA bro's...thats a myth.

HPTA shut down is not normally a problem as HPTA recovery will usually happen post cycle unless one is on for a long long time.
Steroid users should be much more concerned about months of a shitty lipid profile with terrible hdl to total cholesterol ratios' and also liver stress from 17aa orals and high dose injectables.

Bro one shot of deca alone at 200mg will almost completely shut you down.
There is this false notion that one can take steroids and not shut down HPTA. Well let me set that straight once and for all.....only VERY LOW doses of very mild androgens like primo and anavar will have little affect on HPTA......but then you won't gain much since the level of androgen is no more than with your own test production, although it may be a little more anabolic and result is some gain over and above what your natural test can do.

RG

 

[Realgains]

BRO'S WITH LITTLE EXPERIENCE

All I am trying to get across is this...

You don't even need steroids to get pretty big IF you know how to train properly, eat well and rest a lot(slepp ++)
Please do not copy routines in the mags.

Get your bodybuilding lifestyle in line with what I said several posts ago and try to at least get close to your natural maximum weight without steroids, that is 190 lean pounds for an average guy of 5'9 or 10". Add 7-10 pounds for each inch above 5'-10".

Then if you take just small doses of steroids you would be surprised at the gains you will make and you will push past your natural limit quickly.

Problem is so few know how to train for gains without steroids or with low doses of gear. You can't be training 6 days per week with 10-20+ working sets per bodypart and expect to gain unless you are taking a lot of gear and are genetically gifted.

Once you are above your natural max weight then yes go ahead and increase the doses a little but keep it sane. When you are a top competitor and are 40 pounds above your natural max then by all means use high doses.

But why subject yourself to the health risks associated with high doses if you are not in competition at a decent level.

www.newhopemed.com and read Steroids benefits and pitfals.

RG

 

[SuKY_GeNeTiCs]

great post thanks RG!

SuKY

 

[Burgboy]

BRO'S WITH LITTLE EXPERIENCE

All I am trying to get across is this...

You don't even need steroids to get pretty big IF you know how to train properly, eat well and rest a lot(slepp ++)
Please do not copy routines in the mags.

Get your bodybuilding lifestyle in line with what I said several posts ago and try to at least get close to your natural maximum weight without steroids, that is 190 lean pounds for an average guy of 5'9 or 10". Add 7-10 pounds for each inch above 5'-10".

Then if you take just small doses of steroids you would be surprised at the gains you will make and you will push past your natural limit quickly.

Problem is so few know how to train for gains without steroids or with low doses of gear. You can't be training 6 days per week with 10-20+ working sets per bodypart and expect to gain unless you are taking a lot of gear and are genetically gifted.

Once you are above your natural max weight then yes go ahead and increase the doses a little but keep it sane. When you are a top competitor and are 40 pounds above your natural max then by all means use high doses.

But why subject yourself to the health risks associated with high doses if you are not in competition at a decent level.

www.newhopemed.com and read Steroids benefits and pitfals.

RG

Very good advice.......We need more of this insight......I hate to see guys using a gram of test a week on a second cycle!

 

[Arkan]

Don't use estrogen inhibitors unless you absolutely need to as they really mess with your lipid profile. Steroids plus an estrogen inhibitor = avery shitty lipid profile with a terrible hdl to total cholesterol profile.

Are you talking about arimidex?