Machines vs. freeweights

[Imnotdutch]

How does the machine do the straining for you? I dont understand that......unless you mean it helps stabilise the bar in which case your argument is exactly the same as saying freeweights are harder because they invovle the stabiliser muscles......which you appear to be arguing against. I'm confused!!

If it did i would say minimally. I believe the growth from free weights comes from how much more strenous the exercise is versus some free weight machines do the straining for you.

 

[riskybizz007]

now that i re-read that shit, it didn't make too much sense there. Let me say this however, some machines really suck. Some machines i find very useful. What i meant by "taking the normal straining out" is like for example a french press versus the machine's version of this which is IMO not even half as effective. How you would put that in words, i just thought to say it takes a lot of the normal straining out. Like i said, some machines are good and some suck.

I completely disagree w/ what was earlier stated when mentioned about free weights cannot be applied to normal everyday living. I'm not flaming you by saying this, but that sounds like the biggest crock of shit i've ever heard. You can get stronger using both free weights and machines, and to say that the strength you accumulate from machines cannot be used in the "real world" is just plain ignorance b/c strength is strength, and if you have for example a strong bicep or strong shoulders you'll be able to use that stength when needed no matter where it came from.

 

[karde]

Shit, you guys got it all wrong. Just stick to light weights and wear muscle necklaces from NYC boy!


lol

 

[riskybizz007]

KARDE! friekin a bro i read that NYC BOY post, they moved it to the Anabolic Board. That is the most hilarious post i've ever read, ever. Especially when NYC BOY claimed, "i'm one of the biggest guys in my gym" and they show his picture. Dear lord he looked how i looked like 8 years ago when i was like 16 and lifting. Anyways, that thread is hilarious.

 

[Blood&Iron]

endpoint-
The articles are fascinating but I'm not sure they are entirely relevant. They address pattern overload--and I'm happy anytime someone slams the Smith Machine--but Chek says this can occur both with "poorly designed" machines AND exercising with improper form. I have no argument here. Many machines are crap. Personally I use Hammer Strength almost exclusively when I use machines as I feel they are excellent. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with the idea that a well designed machine can cause pattern overload or that one should periodize machine use. I'm not a fan of periodization in general. I do tend to use a given exercise for only a brief period as I simply get bored otherwise, but I admit this may have prevented injury. Far more important in the prevention of injury, however, is, I feel, the use of proper form.

okay for part two.

a person starts withall guess work)
machine 40lbs
freeweight 30lbs.

s/he works only on a machine and gets the exercise up to 60lbs.
according to you the person will be able to lift around 50lbs on the free weight exercise.

WRONG.

I never said a person could go immediately from a machine to a free weight exercise and have a set proportional increase in the weight he uses. Motor-learning must first occur. But within a few weeks to months the gains in strength made on a machine will have largely carried over. I myself have experienced this.
Finally, I'll give you an article to read. I'm sure there is much with which you may disagree but read it and try to be open-minded:

http://www.cyberpump.com/features/intensity/baye006.html

Anyway, each person has the right to his own opinion. Free weights vs. machines has been a subject of debate for a long time and will continue, in all liklihood, to be so in perpetuity. We're all lifters anyway, so lets just relax.

 

[endpoint]

okay im agreeing to disagree.

the chek articles werent put there to back me up.

they were just anti machine articles.


Im in two minds about that article.(the cyberpump one)
there are many things that i disagree with. even non related machine statements.......like there is no such thing as speed strength. my word.


i guess me hating machines has a lot to do with me loving compound movements, and the "sports" of which i am involved with

okay agree to disagree.

 

[endpoint]

ill repeat myself again.

you can reach hypertrophy from working on a machine...
you can gain strength from working on a machine (depends what you call strength)

 

[patro]

Back to the issue

OK so does anybody else experience considerable more difficulty in lifting weight with freeweights than with machines, effectiveness aside?

So this is mostly attributed to the stability the machine gives you? But how could that 'increase' your 'strength', so to speak? (I doubt not using stabilizer muscles could make it THAT much easier).

-PATRO

 

[Blood&Iron]

Not having to balance the weights IS, I think, the main reason that machine exercises tend to be easier. Another is that many free weight exercises do not match the natural strength curve of a muscle. A well designed machine, on the other hand, should have a variable degree of the resistance so when you are strongest the weight is heaviest, and where your muscles are naturally weakest the wieght is lightest. This, IMO, is one of the advantages machines have to offer. If the reason for your post is that you are trying to switch over, a good way I've found is to do your warm-up sets using free weights and the final work set on the machine. This way you can maintain your strength as you gradually become better with the free weight version of the exercise. After a few weeks, start doing your final set using free weights as well.

 

[movie muscle]

Well I see we have all been busy since I was here last.Sounds like some of our members could use a little time learning about muscles.They will how ever understand the difference between internal and external rotators real soon, when they tear one!.I agree some machines are good and some are junk.Use both properly and you can achieve great results.