Lagging Chest...do fly's before pressing movements?

[b fold the truth]

If we continually use words like "some people" and other extremes to prove our point...we will all greatly fail in learning proper knowledge.

I can find proof to basically refute any point that can be bade. That doesn't make my point right or your point wrong.

This wasn't meant to be directed towards anyone...I just hate to see debates where all that is discussed to prove their points is the exceptions to the rule. Discussions should be focused towards words like "most people" in my opinion.

B True

 

[spatts]

Look, we're all unique. I have rotator cuff problems, and I'm getting stronger in spite of myself. I've never pitched a ball in my life, so I have nothing to blame it on except crappy bench form and a bad trainer. No amount of knowledge, research, or even experience will allow us to predict the exceptions. Think critically, and for yourself; do the best with what you've got.

 

[Hannibal]

So the right way for you is the wrong way for develpoment of the pecs...

Well when Spatts benched like a bodybuilder...with her elbows out, and pressing in an arc...she was stuck at 95lbs...and had chronic/severe shoulder pain.

Now that I have helped her with her form...tucked elbows, pressing the bar in a straight line...she is moving 175+..in spite of her shoulder problems which we are addressing.

Worked with The Project as he was stuck at 135. Changed his form up got him pressing the right way and now he is in the 175 range as well. Both of them made this progress in the course of 2 months.

Its a matter of risk to reward ratio. If you bench like a BB and use it for Pec development...the risk you are taking with your shoulders seems to outweigh the results. With your elbows out there is a tremendous amount of shoulder rotation. To combat this coaches regularly teach people NOT to touch their chest because it is dangerous...instead they should teach them to press the right way.

 

[TheProject]

Worked with The Project as he was stuck at 135. Changed his form up got him pressing the right way and now he is in the 175 range as well. Both of them made this progress in the course of 2 months.

Its a matter of risk to reward ratio. If you bench like a BB and use it for Pec development...the risk you are taking with your shoulders seems to outweigh the results. With your elbows out there is a tremendous amount of shoulder rotation. To combat this coaches regularly teach people NOT to touch their chest because it is dangerous...instead they should teach them to press the right way.

One of the reasons that I decided to change my split a couple of weeks ago was my bench. Hannibal "fixed" my bench for me about 2 months ago, and went from 135 to 155 in a matter of about 2 weeks. Last time I tested my 1 rep max was over a month ago, and it was 175 then. I still don't have the form quite right, and once I do, I expect to be able to move more weight.

I've been lucky (and had a good trainer watching out for me), so I have yet to be injured.

I still want to work my pecs, but I'll incorporate some flyes or something as aux work to hit that.

 

[Blkout]

If we continually use words like "some people" and other extremes to prove our point...we will all greatly fail in learning proper knowledge.

I can find proof to basically refute any point that can be bade. That doesn't make my point right or your point wrong.

This wasn't meant to be directed towards anyone...I just hate to see debates where all that is discussed to prove their points is the exceptions to the rule. Discussions should be focused towards words like "most people" in my opinion.

B True

Well Bfold, surely you know that not everyone in this world is built the same. How can anyone speak for the majority without knowing how everyone in the world is built? My point is that bad form is too often blamed on this forum for injuries when its very possible that some excercises just don't agree with some people as much as others. I have been training for 13 years now and I have my form down on all my excercises now. I know good and well my form is fine on my bench press for example, but I cannot push heavy repeatedly week after week without injuring my left shoulder. Its always been that way and it has not changed over the years. Its something I have learned to accept and move on to another excercise. It certainly has not hampered my growth by not using this excercise. My point is that there are lots of excercises that can stimulate growth and some are just not suited for some people. I also realize being in the gym as long as I have that many people look for excuses not to do the most demanding excercises such as squats or deads, but this is different that actually not being able to perform the excercise without causing injury. I am in no way saying that form is never the culprit as I learned with my close grip benches last year but more often than not, its not form but the person's body composition that causes such problems.

 

[b fold the truth]

Sounds like you still need to focus on your weak point...your left shoulder.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

I do understand what you are saying though...just that people are using the "exceptions" to the rule to prove their points. I do understand that there are exceptions though.

B True

 

[Hannibal]

I have been training for 13 years now and I have my form down on all my excercises now. I know good and well my form is fine on my bench press for example, but I cannot push heavy repeatedly week after week without injuring my left shoulder. Its always been that way and it has not changed over the years. Its something I have learned to accept and move on to another excercise.

No offence...but if you continue to do the same thing...you cannot expect different results. IF...your form is fine...but pressing for a couple weeks causes injury...then obviously you have a muscle imbalance that needs to be addressed. That is IF your form is as good as you say it is.

No reason to accept things at face value....change is good.

 

[spatts]

I think what Hannibal is trying to get at, without being condescending, is that we all thought we knew form until we knew better. I thought I was dead on too, but it's hard to know what you don't know when you don't know it...know what I mean? This is why you have to read all you can, attend seminars/watch videos of the people that DO push alot of weight without injury. I have yet to see a person outside of WSB, besides Hannibal, benching correctly. The bench is a total body movement...in fact, when I bench the only thing that cramps up is my left hamstring. I'm not saying your form isn't right, but keeping an open mind and being willing to learn AND teach, is the only way to advance as a lifter and as a human being.

Do you/can you film your workouts? I'd like to see your bench press if you have a video or pics.

 

[Blkout]

I do understand what you are saying though...just that people are using the "exceptions" to the rule to prove their points. I do understand that there are exceptions though.

B True

OK, agreed.