Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below i have a report on training to failure and the use of multiple sets versus one set, various rep ranges, and the use of machines or free weights. It gives specific studies that were done and the results. It is extremely interesting, it was written by my exercise physiology professor disputing ACSM's position stand on resistance training. If you want the link here it is the only bad part is its 64 pages or so, but u can skim through it. Basically it shows that there is hardly any difference between multiple sets to a single set when taken to failure and the use of rep ranges between 3 and 15 as long as failure is met in one set 2 to 3 times a week will elicit the same response to split work outs etc. There was a greater response however with working out 6 days a week basically in elite athletes. Heres the link very interesting stuff. It is the second link on the page.JEP online
Interesting paper on resistance training
- Thread starter Topside
- Start date
dookie1481
New member
Topside said:
Do you truly believe this?
And I love this:
Ummm, maybe because the preponderance of resistance-training studies use untrained subjects, or for very short timeframes (<6 weeks or so). But that isn't really the demographic here.
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
Cite all the papers/studies you want. Nothing compares to anecdotal evidence. I've yet to see anyone produce appreciable muscular hypertrophy through single-set training. Strength may increase for a short duration, but it's far from optimal.
I have my doubts about this as well, but im giving it a try and so far i have seen some decent results. I have learned from class that training to failure is the only way to really quantify intensity. If you stop before failure then how do you know how hard your muscles are really working. My prof. says to get results you should make your body work hard to make it easier and stop short of failure. Once the muscle fails thats as hard as it can possibly work, then how much it grows depends on diet and genetics. Im giving it a shot and so far i actually like it. Just thought that paper was fairly interesting.
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
Training to failure will burn you out eventually. Gotta be careful. It's better to stop a rep or two short of failure. How do you know when this is? You need to have experience. You'll learn it with time.
dookie1481
New member
Topside said:
Except that failure is a CNS phenomenon, not muscular. Your Prof. sounds like a HIT guy. Notoriously dogmatic. Read this: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5088668&postcount=783
Protobuilder
New member
What about DC training??? One set, to failure and then rest-paused, hitting the muscle 3x/wk . . . and people swear they gain on it.
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
You can gain on most programs, at least for awhile. DC training is nothing special. The main thing people need to do is add weight to the bar while eating an excess of calories. This leads to hypertrophy, and obviously, strength gains. The problem is, going to failure is hard on the body and you will burn out. When this happens, you need to back off a bit. By the end of the day, I don't think it matters.
Just bring your weights up with an adequate amount of volume (i.e., increasing 1 RM won't do it, you need to be using a fair amount of volume) and eat enough. You'll grow. Of course, those using AAS are different. All the rules are thrown out the window at this point.
I'm going to make a post entitled "Training & Diet Basics - It's all simple". Check out the article in it. It was written by Lyle McDonald of www.bodyrecomposition.com
He certainly knows his stuff, and he likes to cut through all the bullshit.
Just bring your weights up with an adequate amount of volume (i.e., increasing 1 RM won't do it, you need to be using a fair amount of volume) and eat enough. You'll grow. Of course, those using AAS are different. All the rules are thrown out the window at this point.
I'm going to make a post entitled "Training & Diet Basics - It's all simple". Check out the article in it. It was written by Lyle McDonald of www.bodyrecomposition.com
He certainly knows his stuff, and he likes to cut through all the bullshit.
i guess he is rather HIT, he states that the name of the game is intensity. He says 20-25 mins 3 days a week one set to MMF (momentary muscular fatigue). It seems too simple to me, but it also seems to have much common sense behind it. I've been training this way for about a month now and i cant see becoming overtrained or burnt out. I dunno for some reason with the statement that it works regardless of experience also makes sense to me, it may seem weird but if i fail at say 130 for 10 reps on a chest press machine a more experienced or a more trained guy would probably fail at higher weight say 200 for 10, it is just where his more trained muscles will fail at. I've seen greater development in my muscles training in this way using only machines at a tempo of 2 sec up and 2 down really focusing on full ROM with a deep stretch at the start of the movement.
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
You can't argue with results. If it works for you, it works. Just follow the basic rules of mass gain and you'll get where you want to be.
Chambewy20
New member
This is based on the premise that there is finite types of strength. Everyone has slow twitch and fast twitch muscle fibers, some folks have greater absolute strength rather than speed strength, others vise versa.
To be conceited enough or dumb enough to write a 60+ page paper for impressionable students is stupid. Not everyone is the same, has the same potential or the same needs. The biggest thing to learn is that not everything works for everyone and what works usually works only works for a finite time.
Diversity accompanied by a thirst for knowledge is key and it doesn't take a long-winded Phd to figure that out.
If you want to get strong, fast, great or good, loose the ego if you have one and educate yourself.
To be conceited enough or dumb enough to write a 60+ page paper for impressionable students is stupid. Not everyone is the same, has the same potential or the same needs. The biggest thing to learn is that not everything works for everyone and what works usually works only works for a finite time.
Diversity accompanied by a thirst for knowledge is key and it doesn't take a long-winded Phd to figure that out.
If you want to get strong, fast, great or good, loose the ego if you have one and educate yourself.
musketeer
New member
musketeer said:
I've stated the HIT routine that I used a few times on EF. I'm not plat anymore so it's tougher for me to find it, but I'll suggest going to my profile and clicking on the link to all of my posts.
The routine was very similar to Dorian Yates' (if looking at his website would be quicker:
www.dorianyates.net
I was a skinny 165lbs (I'd stopped training for a year!) at 6'0" and was about 18% BF.
I trained like a fuggin HIT maniac, and ate till I felt sick every day. The guys who worked in the gym said that I was crazy, and the manager (who was a huge BBer) told me that I could expect to gain 2-3 pounds a month max. That summer he watched me EXPLODE up to nearly 200lbs with low BF (like 6 pack low).
Mon - Chest & Biceps
Tues - Legs
Wed - Swim
Thu - Shoulders & Tris
Fri - Back
Sat - Run
Sun - Swim
Sample Chest workout at the end of the 10 weeks:
Incline Dumbell Press
4 warmup sets then:
4reps x 100lbers + 2 reps forced
Decline Barbell Press
2 warmup sets then:
6 x 225 + 2 reps forced
Flat Flyes
2 warmup sets then:
6 x 70lbers + 4 x 55lbers + 4 x 40lbers + 10 x 25lbers
(all one strip set)
Strict Incline Dumbell Curls
3 warmup sets then:
6 x 55lbers + 6 x 45lbers + 6 x 35lbers + 10 x 20lbers
(all one strip set)
EZ Preacher Curls
2 warmup sets then:
6 x 110lbs + 2 forced reps
JUST TO RE-ITERATE THOUGH:
I CURRENTLY do the 5x5 plus oly lifts - I think it's much better!
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
Why do you think the stuff you do now is better? Any reason in particular?
'sides the fact that olylifts are fun as all hell, of course. You look badass doing snatches and overhead squats. That can't be helped.
'sides the fact that olylifts are fun as all hell, of course. You look badass doing snatches and overhead squats. That can't be helped.
HunterUk
New member
I can't help but feel that most routines produce similar results, at least in the short run, with some just being better at managing overtraining and CNS fatigue. The more I train the more I feel that diet is the most important aspect of bodybuilding. Might help explain why so many people use so many different routines, some swear by them and some ridicule them.
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
Diet and training probably sit hand in hand in bodybuilding, if you're natural. If you're juicing, then it's diet and quantity of gear that really matters. I agree, though. Training works more or less the same in the short-term. As time goes on, others are generally better. That's typically why a beginner trains different than an intermediate, intermediate different than an advanced, etc.
People also swear by various routines while condemning others, 'cause they try a routine and don't follow it properly, aren't eating enough, or getting enough rest. In short - there are often other variables lacking which are to blame, and not a routine itself.
People also swear by various routines while condemning others, 'cause they try a routine and don't follow it properly, aren't eating enough, or getting enough rest. In short - there are often other variables lacking which are to blame, and not a routine itself.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
Chambewy20 said:
So true, everyone is different and every 'body' gets used to or adapted to the same exercises. Good post about changing it up.
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