How many here are on the bubble of using juice?

[kingslender]

Everyone has to make there own choice-nothing wrong with juicers
I think about it a lot but probably will never take the plunge.
I got a lot to live for

 

[USMC_Devildog]

Not experienced Enough

I started lifting at age 12 and have been for almost 7 years. I'm at the prime age for gaining. There were times when I felt I was going no where with my training. To counter this I started asking people who were experienced enough to give me suggestions. I also did a lot of reading. I never read muscle mags, except for Ironman Magazine. Any time I'm unhappy with anything (training....etc) it's obviously a problem that you're going to have to deal with. As for me, the thought of using juice has never crossed my mind once. I've noticed that a lot of pro bodybuilders don't live very long. I believe it's because of steroid use. I mean these guys are packed with muscle and most of the time maintain healthy body fat levels (I know there are some who don't.....Lee Priest ring a bell?). If these guys train almost every day and eat healthy, shouldn't be able to live a long time? Not always so. Like at the Mentzer brothers. I haven't read anything that states that their deaths were caused from the after effects of juice, but it's a good probability. Putting any unnatural substance in the body just because you're not making any gains wouldn't be a good idea, in my opinon. Healthwise.....If I was more concerned with my health I would and am staying away from such drugs. Just got to remember the reason why you're training. For me it's health first and appearance last. Shouldn't be the other way around, just my 2 cents. If you reach a plateau, it's a problem you'll have to solve. And that's the complexity of life. You will always have some kind of problem to overcome. And when you overcome it, you'll feel better about yourself. You'll be much more successful with anything you do.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Out of curiosity, why would you do something that you know is so bad for you? Are you that unhappy with the way you look?

Most men and women prefer the look of a non-freaky physique. If you're doing it to feel stronger / tougher or whatever you want to call it, just remember that a handgun in the hands of a 100lb 15 year old will take you out in 2 secs flat. If your an olympic powerlifter or WSM competitor, maybe, otherwise, I just don't get it. You can build a great physique naturally, why bother with drugs?

Don't get me wrong, if they weren't unhealthy, I'd use them. But only to a certain point -- as a shortcut. I'll get there naturally though, it's just going to take longer.

 

[Grizzly]

Re: Not experienced Enough

Putting any unnatural substance in the body just because you're not making any gains wouldn't be a good idea, in my opinon.

Just out of curiousity, what is unnatural about testosterone?

As for the bubble question... I just broke the bubble a few weeks ago. I have to say that steroids are the greatest thing ever invented. I rather like them. I've put on a little size in the last three weeks, but the good size gains should start coming in another week or two. They're really pretty cool. I'd advise everyone to try them once or twice. Of course, I'd advise eveyone to try just about anything once or twice.

 

[gymtime]

USMC and Marshall - Without turning this thread into a steroid debate, steroids, in and of themselves are niether good nor bad for anyone. They are like any other drug. They can be abused or used intelligently. Very few steroid users become what you see in magazines. But I completely agree with you about those who do, it's unhealthy.

Is it a shortcut? Maybe. But I think those who use steroids intelligently are not lazy people. And, to be honest, I don't believe anyone who says they workout purely for health. If that were the case, there'd be no gyms. The vast majority of people workout to look better, whether they care to admit it or not. Is that bad? Not to me. Whatever gets you in the gym.

I think if you've put in the years of training and diet, you deserve to cheat a little, long as you're smart about it.

 

[Jabs]

A blanket statement like that is not an educated one. Some are really bad for you but there are some that have very little if any side affects. My own opinion is this, using steroids at high dosage will do damage to you, using non-harsh steroids at a low dosage is as safe as anything else. I had a well educated doc tell me booz is harsher to the body than a lot of steroids. Plus a lot of adult men are and have been doing shots of test to become healthier. I also respect someones choice of not doing them there are hazards like the law or an infection and so on but the media and other sources have know idea what they are talking about and lose on the potential benefits of them.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

A blanket statement like that is not an educated one. Some are really bad for you but there are some that have very little if any side affects. My own opinion is this, using steroids at high dosage will do damage to you, using non-harsh steroids at a low dosage is as safe as anything else. I had a well educated doc tell me booz is harsher to the body than a lot of steroids. Plus a lot of adult men are and have been doing shots of test to become healthier. I also respect someones choice of not doing them there are hazards like the law or an infection and so on but the media and other sources have know idea what they are talking about and lose on the potential benefits of them.

Jabs, I assume you are referring to my question of wanting to do something that's obviously bad for you. I don't think that there is any question in the medical community that steroids have side effects and are potentially harmful to your health, even when used for medicinal purposes. Even testosterone therapy has to be done very carefully, but that's a whole different issue all together. So, please tell me how my opinion is an uneducated one.

Potential benefits? I assume you mean bigger size than can be acheived naturally. If you can show me any studies showing them as beneficial to one's health I would like to see it. Then I'll pick up a cycle myself maybe. And no, booze is not as harmful if you have a glass of wine a day vs. a shot of d-bol.

BTW, you started the thread about being on the "bubble", it sounds like you have your mind clear about the whole issue. Where's the indecision?

 

[Jabs]

First off the post came about because I spent a lot of time over on the anabolic board and started to check out and spend some time over on this forum. I started to think about all the information on anabolics just a click away. For me the temptation would've been overwhelming especially when I was in high school. I was curious about other people in this forum because I guess a lot of them haven't ventured into that relm yet. As for me calling your statement uneducated i stand behind that but it might have sounded a little harsh and I didn't mean it too. You said taking d-bol vs a shot of red wine is no comparison I disagree. How about doing 400mg primo or deca or any other mild toxic steroid compared to shot of vodka. My point being is that if you say all steroids are harmful I find that an uneducated statement I cannot see it any other way. All steroids are not created the same. If you do some research I think your point of view might change. I'm not saying you should do them but a better understanding of them wouldn't hurt.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Jabs, that's cool man. Don't worry about sounding harsh. All I was saying was that from my point of view - which is educated - is that I haven't seen the data that you are suggesting. Can you point me in the direction of some links of studies showing limited use of steroids to be safe?

I get your point with the booze thing, but I think you meant <B>glass</B> of vodka vs. glass of wine. Wouldn't a shot of vodka have the same effect on the liver as a glass of wine?

Sorry to everyone else if this is turning into a steroid / no-steroid debate. I'm just really interested in the idea that steroids can be considered harmless.

 

[Jabs]

I like the way your thinking and I guess I'll end it by saying this, there is a lot of solid information on some steroids being safe and even more safe than most recreational drugs. Most "docs" in the medical community just recently started to believe that steroids do indeed can increase muscle. The media and the medical community are way behind on there info on steroids. You used d-bol as your example for steroid in your argument. I agree d-bol is harsher to your liver than one drink of alchohol but then again you shouldn't be doing d-bol either. Its a tab that is very popular but its effects are short term mostly water weight and in my opinion a waste of money but a lot of people like the temp strength gains. There is a lot safer drugs you could use instead of providing an example as harsh as d-bol. Even so most people using d-bol report very little side affects common ones reported are moon face from the water weight and acne. Both of which return to normal after use. Most steroids problems occur when high dosage or long term use is in play. There is no doubt cronic use of anything will lead to health problems but I'm not talking about abuseing anything. Anybody in ther teens shouldn't use steroids because they don't need elevated test levels because they already have high test levels and they haven't finished growing yet. I could go on and on but your mind is made up already and I respect that but there are a lot of uses of steroids out side the bodybuilding community and more so outside the United States My father uses test prescribe by a doctor and it has worked well for a lot of mental and physical reasons. The only thing they monitor is his high blood pressure. A lot of men past forty are trying this treatement and its becoming more and more frequent. A person with the right knowledge can use mild doses of steroids for short peroids of time safely.