House votes to cut $4 billion a year from food stamp

[-SD-]

The assertion that with no minimum wage, someone's pay would fall from $7.25 to $5.00 per hour is ridiculous. That's like saying if it weren't for George Bush, we would have been conquered by Al Quada by now.

Why do some people think supply and demand applies to everything except the labor market, where suddenly the price for labor is always rediculously low? I dont think so.

The supply and demand for labor will meet at an acceptable price for everyone just the price for a car, or an iphone. Its not going to bottom out at $5 or $2 an hour just because the greedy corporations want it to.

If that were always the case greedy car companies would force the price of a ford truck at $100,000 and we would all "have to buy it" because everyone needs transportation just like a job right?

Or $50 for a gallon of milk, everyone has to eat right? So you must buy it!

 

[redsamurai]

The assertion that with no minimum wage, someone's pay would fall from $7.25 to $5.00 per hour is ridiculous. .

actually it's exactly what would happen, literally overnight. The reason I know this is because it not only happened here back in the early part of the last century but also happens around the globe in 3rd world countries....hell even China which is 3rd world in some parts. Capitalist theory is that prices "adjust" to the lower wage rates. In a purely capitalistic environment it's possible that happens. With our bubbled out monetary structure we're long past any semblance of a real capitalist structure, Paul talks about this all the time. Prices won't adjust because of our credit markets, if they do it would take a very very long time. And i'm talking about prices for luxury items like hi def screens and xbox's, i'm talking about base living price baskets.

If we're going to continue having this monetary structure with the free flow of credit getting spigot'd out to 1%...the real "trickle down" effect of that is too keep prices artificially high. Therefore the people in service positions that are typically the lower skilled lower wage jobs can't be left behind, there's consequences to greed.

 

[mrplunkey]

actually it's exactly what would happen, literally overnight. The reason I know this is because it not only happened here back in the early part of the last century but also happens around the globe in 3rd world countries....hell even China which is 3rd world in some parts. Capitalist theory is that prices "adjust" to the lower wage rates. In a purely capitalistic environment it's possible that happens. With our bubbled out monetary structure we're long past any semblance of a real capitalist structure, Paul talks about this all the time. Prices won't adjust because of our credit markets, if they do it would take a very very long time. And i'm talking about prices for luxury items like hi def screens and xbox's, i'm talking about base living price baskets.

If we're going to continue having this monetary structure with the free flow of credit getting spigot'd out to 1%...the real "trickle down" effect of that is too keep prices artificially high. Therefore the people in service positions that are typically the lower skilled lower wage jobs can't be left behind, there's consequences to greed.

There's no way wages could drop below $7.25 for any appreciable class or trade, simply because employers compete against unemployment, SSDI, welfare and a host of other assistance plans as-is. People have learned to accept 40%-60% of minimum wage and do nothing via benefits instead of work. I can't really blame them. It would be nice to have nothing but free time all day every day.

 

[ismaele00]

This is horrible.

See, I have as much resentment of people who abuse the system (particularly those who pump out babies just for the sake of increasing benefits) and "generational" welfare families. It's sad, it's sick, it's not healthy, etc., etc. But this shit ... it hits EVERYBODY and there are people who genuinely need the benefits, who have health conditions that make it impossible to work (yes, I know all you able minded and bodied folks cannot imagine being so messed up you can't work but it happens to good people, and living with/off family isn't always an option).

I have a friend who has multiple mental health issues (despite being very intelligent) and multiple degenerative health conditions. She physically cannot handle the demands of a job, period, and even if the job is just mentally demanding her mental health problems preclude her doing that. She's a good person who got handed a shit sandwich for life. Because her medications, 90% of which are psychoactive drugs, cost sooooo much -- upwards of $2,000 a month -- her food stamps have been cut to a grand total of $16 a month. She only gets $1,000 a month cash and her rent alone is $290, she needs a car to get around (public transportation in my state unless you're right in Philly SUCKS) she has to pay electric and phone and everything else like the rest of us.

The system has to treat everyone the same, judge them and accord them benefits by the same standards. So laws that reduce benefits reduce them for everyone. Maybe it drives a few to find what work they can but the rest just have to seek out food banks and learn to live on cheap calories.

 

[joonp]

Quote posted by redsamurai
actually it's exactly what would happen, literally overnight. The reason I know this is because it not only happened here back in the early part of the last century but also happens around the globe in 3rd world countries....hell even China which is 3rd world in some parts. Capitalist theory is that prices "adjust" to the lower wage rates. In a purely capitalistic environment it's possible that happens. With our bubbled out monetary structure we're long past any semblance of a real capitalist structure, Paul talks about this all the time. Prices won't adjust because of our credit markets, if they do it would take a very very long time. And i'm talking about prices for luxury items like hi def screens and xbox's, i'm talking about base living price baskets.

If we're going to continue having this monetary structure with the free flow of credit getting spigot'd out to 1%...the real "trickle down" effect of that is too keep prices artificially high. Therefore the people in service positions that are typically the lower skilled lower wage jobs can't be left behind, there's consequences to greed.

There's no way wages could drop below $7.25 for any appreciable class or trade, simply because employers compete against unemployment, SSDI, welfare and a host of other assistance plans as-is. People have learned to accept 40%-60% of minimum wage and do nothing via benefits instead of work. I can't really blame them. It would be nice to have nothing but free time all day every day.

U really are quite naive. We live in a global economy. Why do you think most manufacturing has gone overseas. B coz they threatened domestic workers that if they didnt take pay cuts they would move operations to somewhere else. Unions and labor refused and so they left. There are many countries where there is no maximum work week, overtime laws, minimum wage, pollution control, etc. If the companies want they can chain and lock the doors and force them to keep working. Look at how many companies use sweat shops. Why? B coz all that matters is the bottom line and return on investment to stockholders. U really think that if there were no minimum wage and no labor laws these companies would keep the wage at the minimum it is now? All you hear is them complain and grumble how its so unfair they have to pay that. It is a hiring market. There are far more workers than there are jobs and without guidlines to follow they would create a bidding war to the bottom and the hourly wage would bottom out. Whats the first thing a company says when it goes to government to get subsidies, tax breaks, and infrustructure built for them? If this is not done we will move somewhere else.
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[mrplunkey]

U really are quite naive. We live in a global economy. Why do you think most manufacturing has gone overseas. B coz they threatened domestic workers that if they didnt take pay cuts they would move operations to somewhere else. Unions and labor refused and so they left. There are many countries where there is no maximum work week, overtime laws, minimum wage, pollution control, etc. If the companies want they can chain and lock the doors and force them to keep working. Look at how many companies use sweat shops. Why? B coz all that matters is the bottom line and return on investment to stockholders. U really think that if there were no minimum wage and no labor laws these companies would keep the wage at the minimum it is now? All you hear is them complain and grumble how its so unfair they have to pay that. It is a hiring market. There are far more workers than there are jobs and without guidlines to follow they would create a bidding war to the bottom and the hourly wage would bottom out. Whats the first thing a company says when it goes to government to get subsidies, tax breaks, and infrustructure built for them? If this is not done we will move somewhere else.
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I love the logic.

1) Yes, we do live in a global economy.

2) Yes, most manufacturing has gone overseas.

So what is your logic? Why, keep the cost of labor artificially high.

Makes sense to me!

Maybe we could tax employers an additional flat rate of $20,000 per domestic employee as well. I bet that would create even more jobs.

 

[joonp]

I love the logic.

1) Yes, we do live in a global economy.

2) Yes, most manufacturing has gone overseas.

So what is your logic? Why, keep the cost of labor artificially high.

Makes sense to me!

Maybe we could tax employers an additional flat rate of $20,000 per domestic employee as well. I bet that would create even more jobs.

The whole point is if u take away the minimum wage the lowest wage will decrease and along with it the standard of living. If u honestly think that if the minimum wage requirement is lifted that companies wont immediately lower wages you are living in a fantasy world. Why do you think they created right to work legislation. That is why the standard of living is the lowest in the south which have predominantly adopted these work laws. That is why the majority of social benefits goes to these areas. Most people think it is the inner city but that is due to racist propaganda. It is a fact there are by far more white people receiving welfare and food stamps and primarily in the south and rural areas. This is primarily where minimum wage legislation is the most effective.


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[mrplunkey]

The whole point is if u take away the minimum wage the lowest wage will decrease and along with it the standard of living. If u honestly think that if the minimum wage requirement is lifted that companies wont immediately lower wages you are living in a fantasy world. Why do you think they created right to work legislation. That is why the standard of living is the lowest in the south which have predominantly adopted these work laws. That is why the majority of social benefits goes to these areas. Most people think it is the inner city but that is due to racist propaganda. It is a fact there are by far more white people receiving welfare and food stamps and primarily in the south and rural areas. This is primarily where minimum wage legislation is the most effective.


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Well then let's roll with your logic for a moment. Why not raise the minimum wage to $25 per hour so we can be assured that even the most economically vulnerable in our society can take home at least $50,000 per year? Would you support that?

 

[bigbassturd]

Don't confuse these people with logical thinking Plunkey. They can barely understand basic mathematics, don't force the whole 'free market' thing at them just yet.

It's a little too advanced, let's wait until they've first mastered coloring inside the lines...

 

[mrplunkey]

Don't confuse these people with logical thinking Plunkey. They can barely understand basic mathematics, don't force the whole 'free market' thing at them just yet.

It's a little too advanced, let's wait until they've first mastered coloring inside the lines...

I completely agree, but the problem now is that these people vote. And elections have consequences.

Want to blame someone for generational poverty? Look no farther than the "progressive" liberals. Want to blame someone for the max exodus of the US manufacturing base? Once again it's "progressive" liberals. Want someone to blame for a lack of class mobility? Yet again it's "progressive" liberals.

But there is fairness here. The system is working as intended. People vote their rights over to an increasingly larger government, which in turn strips them of their economic opportunities, privacy rights and fundamental freedoms. Let them keep voting that way -- elections have consequences.