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Have you ever unexpectedly bonded with or really helped out a homeless person?

calveless wonder

calveless wonder

New member
It's weird. A few weeks back when i was leaving a store and getting into my car, a black guy walked up to me with a bucket.

Before i could even say anything, as i assumed he was the typical beggar i'm used to.... he said "sir, i'm not here to ask you for a handout and i mean no trouble. I been cleaning cars to work for money because i lost my job. please let me clean your car, i'll do a good job and i could really use the money"

The way he said it and the tone he used was very sincere. I was a bit taken back because that's almost never the case. I was also impressed at his introduction, because most people are completely tactless when begging (which he wasn't). I could tell he wasn't the crackhead/alcoholic types you see a lot.

My car was dirty so i was tempted lol..but I was in a hurry, so i told him i don't have time, but i'd give him a few bucks anyways. After giving him the money, he said "please sir..at least let me do a quick job and at least wash your windows". It was like he didn't feel right just taking the money. so i let him do that


anyways, fast forward...and i've run into this guy a couple of more times since. the next time i saw him, i actually let him wash my car because it really needed it and i had time. I also bought him some food. surprisingly, he did an awesome job. i probably overpaid him (not by real car wash standards, but im sure for his) and i let him know it just in case he expected that next time, but he understood and was very grateful for everything.

The next couple of times ive ran into him i had random conversations and through that he told me his story. not in a boohoo feel sorry for me way, but just a matter of factly way. I gotta admit, i was inspired and touched. the guy is still positive and doesn't give up. never seen him drunk or high. always trying to work or find work. A lot of the businesses let him offer his services because they know he's not harrassing people.

so lately i've made it a point to bring him food once in awhile ...as well as pay him wash my car when it needs it...along with referring some friends to him. and it sucks, because it's almost like you want to do more to give that person a fighting chance and get back on their feet.


as i learned from my trip to Colombia, it's so easy to dismiss and minimize people less fortunate but when you actually get to know good people in that situation and the human side of it...you can't not be effected or just extremely grateful for what you have or want to help others. I really feel like a spoiled brat sometimes because i often don't internalize how fortunate i've been and am too busy engulfed in my own problems to have perspective.
 
I think people like that are a bit more common now and it sucks. I used to absolutely hate the homeless because of a number of incidents with them growing up in Philly. Now, I've talked to a number of people that have just had the rug yanked out from under them and they're doing what they need to in order to survive and are good people in the process, not giving up and living in a bottle or whatever.
 
There was a man I used to buy chipotle about once a week who roamed near my work in DC. Very few people in my "real life" know about that....maybe my best friend and my current boyfriend. The guy was batshit insane. Legit schizophrenia. completely harmless to anyone but himself, but I honestly think he appreciated the time I would spend eating with him and listening to his rants as much as he enjoyed the food. Growing up in NYC, my dad raised me to treat the homeless a certain way....I don't really give an eff if people think I'm a sucker.
 
No, I haven't. If you are talking about gainesville the homeless people are all over the place.
I am surprised that there are so many and people just allow them to chill out the way they do there. That wouldn't fly here NY.
None ever gave me any problems there or anything like that. It is just a lasting memory I have from all the times I've been there.
I feel bad for this guy and I would want to give him some advice to help him empower himself.
 
lartinos said:
No, I haven't. If you are talking about gainesville the homeless people are all over the place.
I am surprised that there are so many and people just allow them to chill out the way they do there. That wouldn't fly here NY.
None ever gave me any problems there or anything like that. It is just a lasting memory I have from all the times I've been there.
I feel bad for this guy and I would want to give him some advice to help him empower himself.
Click to expand...

this is a clueless statement bro. how does advice coming from a pedestal or someone who's never lived that, truly help? I don't even try to relate because i can't to that magnitude. i've been flat broke and down and out...but i've always had a family.

i used to say the same thing, but when you have nearly zero resources available to you, it's virtually impossible to overcome that baring a miracle or exceptional god given gift (athletic or musical). Poverty is a perpetuating cycle.
 
javaguru said:
Homeless people are dirty and ugly...they should be euthanized. However, I can see your sympathy for the homeless considering the mortgages you sold the working poor you knew they would never be able to afford...:)
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you're an idiot

i guess castration has this effect
 
Homeless people are dirty and ugly...they should be euthanized. However, I can see your sympathy for the homeless considering the mortgages you sold the working poor you knew they would never be able to afford...:)
 
calveless wonder said:
you're an idiot

i guess castration has this effect
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I have a friend that started a mortgage company in Florida after having been a broker for a while and made a shitload of money...lived the stylin'life of coke and hawt chicks and ended up starting over like you. You can't broker loans for people with no verifiable employment/income forever...eventually being a sheister bites you in the ass. :) My friend currently sells supplementary insurance....but he's good at sales so he does well enough. He regrets not saving more of his sheister money....
 
javaguru said:
I have a friend that started a mortgage company in Florida after having been a broker for a while and made a shitload of money...lived the stylin'life of coke and hawt chicks and ended up starting over like you. You can't broker loans for people with no verifiable employment/income forever...eventually being a sheister bites you in the ass. :) My friend currently sells supplementary insurance....but he's good at sales so he does well enough. He regrets not saving more of his sheister money....
Click to expand...

Well holy fuck... That must be the case with everyone.
 
CW, I could be a hell of a lot wealthier than I am if I had chosen to take advantage of people but I was taught to be honorable. I've told potential clients they would be better off buying canned software as opposed to paying me to developing something canned software could do for them with a little inconvenience. There is no shame in maximizing profits and being the best salesman within the limits of the law...
 
javaguru said:
CW, I could be a hell of a lot wealthier than I am if I had chosen to take advantage of people but I was taught to be honorable. I've told potential clients they would be better off buying canned software as opposed to paying me to developing something canned software could do for them with a little inconvenience. There is no shame in maximizing profits and being the best salesman within the limits of the law...
Click to expand...

Becoming a shutin alcoholic might have had something to do with it too.
 
javaguru said:
CW, I could be a hell of a lot wealthier than I am if I had chosen to take advantage of people but I was taught to be honorable. I've told potential clients they would be better off buying canned software as opposed to paying me to developing something canned software could do for them with a little inconvenience. There is no shame in maximizing profits and being the best salesman within the limits of the law...
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LOL @ you lecturing me as if you have any idea of the way i conducted business or the types of transaction I did by using a broad generalization. I can see why you stuck to the technical side of things, because your interpersonal skills suck.

Get off your soap box. I wasn't even going to respond to extremely narrow and limited scope of the world until you threw this retarded bullshit out there. There is life outside Ohio FYI

I guess people that were doing real estate and loans for 20+ years by building relationships and now can't earn a decent living lump into your category of unscroupolous practice?
 
jnevin said:
Becoming a shutin alcoholic might have had something to do with it too.
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Not really, I haven't had a drink since I stopped womanizing 2.0... "womanizing isn't the answer soul search" in 2007. It's the same reason I'm celibate...

I was never an alcoholic...I was a poonaholic...scoring poon fucked up my life and alcohol was the means to the end. Once you remove poon I was indifferent to alcohol...I didn't drink while with the ex for five years....I had a wiminz....
 
calveless wonder said:
LOL @ you lecturing me as if you have any idea of the way i conducted business or the types of transaction I did by using a broad generalization. I can see why you stuck to the technical side of things, because your interpersonal skills suck.

Get off your soap box. I wasn't even going to respond to extremely narrow and limited scope of the world until you threw this retarded bullshit out there. There is life outside Ohio FYI

I guess people that were doing real estate and loans for 20+ years by building relationships and now can't earn a decent living lump into your category of unscroupolous practice?
Click to expand...

Have you been doing real estate loans for 20+ years?

All I can say is that I've weathered business trends for a time and my clients may have not been able to give me the business they wanted too but I'm still doing what I started six years ago, how about you?
 
javaguru said:
Have you been doing real estate loans for 20+ years?

All I can say is that I've weathered business trends for a time and my clients may have not been able to give me the business they wanted too but I'm still doing what I started six years ago, how about you?
Click to expand...

I did loans for 10 years, was a branch manager for a Fortune 200 company, and was sent to branches that weren't doing well to turn them around because of my success. I'm tending bar right now. It had nothing tto do with my morals or work ethic. The market shifted and left a lot of people really fucked. You don't know what you're talking about bor. Quit while you're behind.
 
jnevin said:
I did loans for 10 years, was a branch manager for a Fortune 200 company, and was sent to branches that weren't doing well to turn them around because of my success. I'm tending bar right now. It had nothing tto do with my morals or work ethic. The market shifted and left a lot of people really fucked. You don't know what you're talking about bor. Quit while you're behind.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you couldn't get unemployed/welfare people loans anymore....that's a major "market shift" and I absorbed your lack industries excesses because people stopped buying cars because mortgage companies gave loans to anyone with a pulse. So, my tier two supplier clients took heat from GM...we can't afford to modernize/update our software because sales are down. I don't blame you, I blame the bailout culture...if you were making big bucks selling the loans of people that can't pay them then you should be a bar tender as opposed to getting more of my tax money as bailouts. Big banking is making record profits after bailouts and record low fed rates...

lOL @ trying to gain credibility by claiming you worked for a major mortgage company that probably doesn't exist anymore...
 
calveless wonder said:
LOL @ you lecturing me as if you have any idea of the way i conducted business or the types of transaction I did by using a broad generalization.
Click to expand...
uh... but you were a 'predatory lender' when you worked in that field. Even your brother jngr gave you shit about it and he was in the same biz.
 
javaguru said:
Yeah, you couldn't get unemployed/welfare people loans anymore....that's a major "market shift" and I absorbed your lack industries excesses because people stopped buying cars because mortgage companies gave loans to anyone with a pulse. So, my tier two supplier clients took heat from GM...we can't afford to modernize/update our software because sales are down. I don't blame you, I blame the bailout culture...if you were making big bucks selling the loans of people that can't pay them then you should be a bar tender as opposed to getting more of my tax money as bailouts. Big banking is making record profits after bailouts and record low fed rates...

lOL @ trying to gain credibility by claiming you worked for a major mortgage company that probably doesn't exist anymore...
Click to expand...

lol @ you trying to act like you know what guidelines were. The example you keep harping on, unemployed/ welfare. In my company and most companies, they didn't get loans. UW pulled a 4506-T, which I'm sure with your infinite wisdom, know exactly what it is. If that income showed they got turned down. Know what you're talking about.
 
calveless wonder said:
i used to say the same thing, but when you have nearly zero resources available to you, it's virtually impossible to overcome that baring a miracle or exceptional god given gift (athletic or musical). Poverty is a perpetuating cycle.
Click to expand...

Lestat? That you bro??
 
calveless wonder said:
mortgages......especially if you go subprime, stressful but very lucrative.
Click to expand...

calveless wonder said:
Marketing is everything in this biz
My company acquires out alot of (very solid)leads. We always large major marketing campaigns with specific themes.
We have so much business we have no idea what to do with. ALot of cash out refi's...especilaly subprime.
Click to expand...

calveless wonder said:
That's why i love subprime :)
people are fucked up and you can put them in their place. They can't walk into any bank and get a loan
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calveless wonder said:
yeah exactly. it's alot easier if they don't grind you out for every fuckin quarter point. my time is way too valuable for that shit

i like my subprime clients. take it or go into foreclosure LOL
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calveless wonder said:
well

I had this one deal, appraisal got done yesterday.

Priced it out at 8.0% fixed a couple of weeks ago. W/ all the guideline and rate changes, it's at a 9.25% now. It's still better than her payment adjusting on her, but the woman now wants to "wait" and see if her credit gets better and the rates drop. i tried telling her the reality of the situation w/ subprime, and how if she doesn't act soon, she may not even be able to get a loan at all. 570 FICO, her credit has always been shit. now she wants to rethink the whole thing. I think she'll do it anyways, but i don't know.
Click to expand...

calveless wonder said:
well, lets see....

i lost half my book of my business. (probably about 15k worth of commisions in my pocket)

due to certain banks going out of business and rate/program changes.

the past 2 years i've done about 95% subprime business. all my clients have shit credit pretty much
Click to expand...

calveless wonder said:
unfortunately for me 95% of my business was subprime, and most of my pipeline got wiped out last month w/ the secondary market disaster. i dont have the reserves right now to remodel my business plan and execute.

i wish i was FHA approved, but i always worked for 1099 shops, so none of ever were. i know w2 is required to be FHA approved

my friend is dealing with alot of short sales and foreclosure bailouts right now..

i might have to follow suite
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calveless wonder said:
I did...and usually i am, but you have to pick and choose your points as you grow older.

especially in business now, i have to be VERY subtle about being right with my clients. i can't just shove it down their throat anymore (like i used to with dumb subprime clients).
Click to expand...

calveless wonder said:
i had the same transition when subprime took a shit and i freaked out (this past summer).I didn't really work or have a job for months till i found my new shop. I was thinking about going back to school etc.
just gotta ride it out for a couple of years till the glory days return.

it's only temporary....just remind yourself of that
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Wasn't subprime the crap that got us in this mess?
 
PuddleMonkey said:
uh... but you were a 'predatory lender' when you worked in that field. Even your brother jngr gave you shit about it and he was in the same biz.
Click to expand...

just because you have your life savings hidden underneath your mattress doesn't mean you have any clue about anything in the financial world.

you also are another perfect example of a person having no idea what you're talking about.

your only saving grace is that your finance background ineptitude forces you to be frugal and not leverage yourself at all. so you will always be comfortable given your income, and by playing it safe, you don't expose yourself to risk so you'll never be in bad financial shape. but at the same time, you'll never be caught jet setting on a G4 because you're too burying your discretionary income under your floorboards
 
javaguru said:
Have you been doing real estate loans for 20+ years?

All I can say is that I've weathered business trends for a time and my clients may have not been able to give me the business they wanted too but I'm still doing what I started six years ago, how about you?
Click to expand...

LOL @ trying to compare the impact of the economic climate on the computer industry as opposed to the real estate industry.

btw i was 21 years old when i started the business. And i had way more success and life experience at 24 than you probably had at 30.

you're like 40 years old there partner...with a low cost of living because you live in nowhere fuckin ohio. so your ability to sustain your business isn't something you should act all big swinging dick about. I'll be happy to use my mid 30's as the barometer of my professional success when i get there (in about a decade)

i think you need to get laid. 3 years of no fucking has obviously disrupted your brain chemistry
 
jnevin said:
lol @ you trying to act like you know what guidelines were. The example you keep harping on, unemployed/ welfare. In my company and most companies, they didn't get loans. UW pulled a 4506-T, which I'm sure with your infinite wisdom, know exactly what it is. If that income showed they got turned down. Know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

javaguru knows everything about anything. thats why he doesn't have sex anymore or leave his town to experience any other part of the world or country. There's nothing he could possibly learn from going anyplace else or meeting anyone else.

he prefers the dopamine rush of warhammer as opposed to orgasm
 
calveless wonder said:
just because you have your life savings hidden underneath your mattress doesn't mean you have any clue about anything in the financial world.

you also are another perfect example of a person having no idea what you're talking about.

your only saving grace is that your finance background ineptitude forces you to be frugal and not leverage yourself at all. so you will always be comfortable given your income, and by playing it safe, you don't expose yourself to risk so you'll never be in bad financial shape. but at the same time, you'll never be caught jet setting on a G4 because you're too burying your discretionary income under your floorboards
Click to expand...

calveless wonder said:
LOL @ trying to compare the impact of the economic climate on the computer industry as opposed to the real estate industry.

btw i was 21 years old when i started the business. And i had way more success and life experience at 24 than you probably had at 30.

you're like 40 years old there partner...with a low cost of living because you live in nowhere fuckin ohio. so your ability to sustain your business isn't something you should act all big swinging dick about. I'll be happy to use my mid 30's as the barometer of my professional success when i get there (in about a decade)

i think you need to get laid. 3 years of no fucking has obviously disrupted your brain chemistry
Click to expand...
You can't gripe about people making assumptions about you and then turn around and do the exact same to them. :)
 
oh shit - in!

So back to the original topic - I do not feel as if I have "bonded" with somebody unfortunate to be in this situation, but recently I did give somebody some money, which is atypical for me. In Grand Rapids many stand at the end of highway exit ramps - generally I pay for things and don't carry a debit card, but I happened to have cash and gave the man all that I had, which came to about $7.00 or so.

I often do have the difficulty of trying not to form biases about reasons that people are in the situation that they are in. Whether it was something that they did - if they are druggies or alcoholics or predatory lenders - they are in a worse situation than I am in, and unless I'm in a situation to try and start a movement and help the homeless, I have no room to judge.
 
I had such high hopes for this thread when I read the title. :(

Anyway, good stuff CW. Ive done something along similar lines once or twice myself...but probably not as often as I should.
 
CW, thats an awsome story bro. Nothing better in life than helping people, who you know appreciate it.
 
javaguru said:
Homeless people are dirty and ugly...they should be euthanized. However, I can see your sympathy for the homeless considering the mortgages you sold the working poor you knew they would never be able to afford...:)
Click to expand...
I would like nothing more at this point in my life, than to punch you square in the fucking mouth. You are one ignorant mutha fucker, regardless of how fucking educated you are.
 
calveless wonder said:
this is a clueless statement bro. how does advice coming from a pedestal or someone who's never lived that, truly help? I don't even try to relate because i can't to that magnitude. i've been flat broke and down and out...but i've always had a family.

i used to say the same thing, but when you have nearly zero resources available to you, it's virtually impossible to overcome that baring a miracle or exceptional god given gift (athletic or musical). Poverty is a perpetuating cycle.
Click to expand...

Depends on the situation and what resources you have available to you. Sounds like this guy is doing whatever he can. I would want to, doesn't mean I can. I probably couldn't, but I would have to be put in that situation to really understand it.
 
lol, at puddz and all the mudslinging in here. I wish we could all be at a bar for all this. I wouldn't be surprised if punches got thrown, lol.
I would be trying to calm you guys down. Just as a side note.. when I was working retail back with Abercrombie about 5 years ago I got recruited left and right to become a mortgage broker. I was comfortable making the little money I did at the time and being around hot chicks. I saw all my high school buddies owning their own companies and what seemed at the time to be doing big things. I kind of felt pedestrian for sure.
Fast forward 5 years and it was the smartest move I could have ever made as my salaries went up 5 years in a row and I now left on my own terms and can probably return to that salary if need be. I remember recruiters flat out talking shit to me. "How much do you make?" "You can make that in 2 months here"
I'd like to see bakemeacookie make a Film about the highlife and low life of the mortgage industry.
 
It depends on how you look at it. As far as helping, I usually give cash, unless I reasonably suspect that they're not legit. By that I mean, there are many Los Angeles "homeless" who are alcoholics, and are only homeless by choice. If it's an alcoholic who has not hit rock bottom yet, and he/she is just being sustained by people handing out a few bucks for more booze, we're NOT helping by handing them cash. It sounds cruel unless you've been there, or been close to someone who has. If it's a true homeless victim of circumstance; a woman who had to leave an abusive home, or a man, or a couple who lost their place to live in a bad economy, then offering whatever help you can, is a good deed. Maybe enough cash to get a hotel room for a couple nights, hot showers, and the dignity and courage to go get a new job, etc. $2 for a taco and water won't do it. I haven't always been in a decent situation myself, and I know personally what it feels like to sleep in a vehicle, and calculate who is the least embarrassing friend to ask if you can use their shower. Thanfully, that was a very short term experience for me, when I was 23. That was enough to let me know the feeling, and I'll never forget it, whether I live barely getting by, or very well.

There is an old lady down in West Los Angeles, who by all outward appearance is homeless (or close to it). She has an old beat-up Chevy with the back seat stuffed with clothes and junk, and she looks like a bag lady. She shows up every day at the same time of the evening, and feeds all the feral cats who hang out behind a row of restaurants after business hours. Nest time I see her, I might give her some funds, if she'll take it. If she gets any income, she probably is spending all of it on cat food. I have no idea what her deal is, and I'm not even a fan of cats. But I see that what she's doing is very selfless, and she deserves something in return.

Then there's the opposite of the spectrum: There's a young man who hangs out in the Walmart parking lot, and he's holding a sign "Homeless hungry combat veteran". Bullshit! He's only 10 minutes away from the Veterans' Administration, which will unconditionally offer help to any veteran who needs housing or medical help. Either he's not really a combat vet, or he's not interested in help. I see how many people hand him cash. I bet he makes more than a middle-rank worker in the store. I don't like it when someone plays on your sympathy. Oh yes, and he has an underweight German Shepherd with him to drive his point home. What a scumbag. The only help I'd offer is a fat lip.

Charles
 
kx250rider said:
Then there's the opposite of the spectrum: There's a young man who hangs out in the Walmart parking lot, and he's holding a sign "Homeless hungry combat veteran". Bullshit! He's only 10 minutes away from the Veterans' Administration, which will unconditionally offer help to any veteran who needs housing or medical help. Either he's not really a combat vet, or he's not interested in help. I see how many people hand him cash. I bet he makes more than a middle-rank worker in the store. I don't like it when someone plays on your sympathy. Oh yes, and he has an underweight German Shepherd with him to drive his point home. What a scumbag. The only help I'd offer is a fat lip.

Charles
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Next time you see him, offer to take his dog from him since it's obvious he can't properly feed and care for him. Tell him that should free up some cash for him to live a little better also.
 
ceo said:
Next time you see him, offer to take his dog from him since it's obvious he can't properly feed and care for him. Tell him that should free up some cash for him to live a little better also.
Click to expand...

Bumbs always have dogs, lol. I worked at this Mall back in the day and would always see this bumb around. I go by the dumpster one day and he's on a fucking cell phone, WTF..
 
jnevin said:
I did loans for 10 years, was a branch manager for a Fortune 200 company, and was sent to branches that weren't doing well to turn them around because of my success. I'm tending bar right now. It had nothing tto do with my morals or work ethic. The market shifted and left a lot of people really fucked. You don't know what you're talking about bor. Quit while you're behind.
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LMAO!! fucking great.....


bartender. whut? Nothing like making an honest living, that's admirable. But not for some of us. If you stay in the kitchen, your eventually gonna eat....
 
The reason bums almost always have dogs with them is because the cops dont want to have to deal with the big hassle of handling a dog should they have to arrest the bum for any reason. Bums know this so they keep dogs with them.
 
(your only saving grace is that your finance background ineptitude forces you to be frugal and not leverage yourself at all. so you will always be comfortable given your income, and by playing it safe, you don't expose yourself to risk so you'll never be in bad financial shape. but at the same time, you'll never be caught jet setting on a G4 because you're too burying your discretionary income under your floorboards) CW

I'm this. I have no idea what a G4 is, I can guess it's some kind of plane. CW, your showing how shallow you and others can be. I think it comes from being young, that's under 50 MF'er. (and yes I am) Assuming that at some point in your life you would see that there are different ways to live that people aspire to, just being finantially sound, being able to make the kids sports events, and save enough to have nice things, that is really all there is. Having time for a family, eating dinner with them, being at home each night to tuck the kid/s in, taking them to school. At 30something, I guess the F4 would have been nice, but I'm telling you now, at 50, that shit ain't worth a damn. No, I'll never own a F4, but today, I'm taking my son to baseball practice, his games are on the weekends, I coached him for 7 years, we will do homework when we get home. I have no outstanding bills, my home os really nice, I drive an Escalade and my wife a Hummer. Don't lose sight of what life is really all about. that's all.....
Truth, Love, and Understanding. Eternally in the bonds of Pi Kappa Alpha, your older brother.
TxB
__________________
 
^---- puds admitted he was just baiting me and starting shit. That's what he does now is follow me around and make ridiculous and inaccurate statements. Hence he's a troll.

He does this now because he realiZes he always loses the ball busting battle between lately, so he had to change his angle.



I think we can also all come to the conclusion javaguru is a prick. hence why he'll probably be alone the rest of his life because no woman can stand him for too long
 
calveless wonder said:
^---- puds admitted he was just baiting me and starting shit. That's what he does now is follow me around and make ridiculous and inaccurate statements. Hence he's a troll.

He does this now because he realiZes he always loses the ball busting battle between lately, so he had to change his angle.



I think we can also all come to the conclusion javaguru is a prick. hence why he'll probably be alone the rest of his life because no woman can stand him for too long
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LOL, NOT Puds! really? Well I'll be......

You take to heart what I said, All yall other young MF'ers chasing that allmighty dollar. It's OK to get yourself setup well, but at some point, when the kid/s come, believe me, home time and time off will be the most important things you will want. Seen it too many times. Don't let your job have you flying to Timbuktu, and your kid has a game/s that weekend. Everyone has a price, if it's BIG bucks that can help your family out by better city to live, colleges to attend, then it's hard not to make that sacrifice, but the money would have to be tremendous. I've never heard my son say, "Dad, I really wish you worked more, I need more shit." just sayin...
 
Rant on a tangent; subprime loans..... I'm not going to point fingers at loan brokers, or even at the borrowers in trouble. In fact, I point fingers at EVERYONE in the chain of failure; from the high execs to the working-class homeowner-borrower. I do have an opinion that is very clear. There should never have been any "sub prime" loans made. The only reason those loans were made, was through corruption with the lenders, who saw a chance to bilk less qualified people for huge interest. They figured that sooner or later the borrowers might not pay, but they also figured they'd just foreclose, and still make plenty of money. The joke turned on them, however, when the market failed. It was a simple case of a load hitting the saturation point, and now we're all paying for it. If you want to buy a house, you're supposed to live cheap for a few years and PUT MONEY AWAY FOR A BIG DOWN PAYMENT. Not borrow 120% of the home's price, and get no payments for a year while the interest makes the amount owed, rocket into orbit while you're enjoying the "free money". I'm sorry to insult anyone, but those who did that are FOOLS. Would we get under a barbell that we had NO IDEA if we could put back on the hooks without a spotter? That's exactly what all those subprime borrowers did, and the loan companies loaded all the bars blind.

Why are my wife and I not homeless right now? Because we never refinanced anything during all the big craze for "pull cash out of your house, and buy cars, boats, and second homes"... And we live within our means to begin with. Every single day, somebody would pound on the door, or we'd get crap in the mail, or by fax, telling us we could get all kinds of cash. I see exactly how so, SO many people fell into that trap. In fact, we have a friend who did, and she was a loan processor at Countrywide herself. We like her as a good person, so when she lost her condo (which she bought & financed for $500,000 in Ventura County, CA, and is now valued at $105,000), we felt bad and let her have a little rental house at a reduced price. And we bought it in '08 from someone who couldn't pay their subprime loan. What a circuit of fate.....

Charles
 
^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept
 
calveless wonder said:
^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept
Click to expand...

a few thoughts from this thread in no specific order

the ex husband bought a home (with my twenty percent down and closing costs) through countrywide...to his credit (no pun) he refinanced through a local credit union 2 years later and his home is still not underwater..its a miracle , but still, he couldnt of done it w/o major mitigating factors(subprime lending and my large down payment)

the subprime thing really only exploded in this state in really terrible areas where the real estate should have been dozed well before bad mortgages with shitty terms came along

helping someone homeless or otherwise...why yes, yes I have..Ive been sprayed by hiv and hep b infected blood helping the homeless and other less fortunate people but that's my nature my motto is " i fix"
I also got burned so many times by people financially when I owned rental real estate Ive grown a much thicker skin and usually am better at spotting why someone got themselves into bad circumstances and stay away unless I listen to your story...and really listen

homeless combat vets...yeah, they do actually exist.. the va is so full of fucking red tape you cant even imagine so some never actually get help, never mind the filth some vets are subjected to in va's...I wouldnt make rats live in some of them.

java has always been a prick, its amusing to me someone on here needs to feel personally attacked to see this
 
I helped a homeless guy named Rodney <Last Name Omitted> about three years ago. It's a long story how we met and qualified him for help, but we essentially did an experiment. We rented him a very small but livable apartment. We made several runs to WalMart with him to buy food, clothes and household items. We lined him up with local downtown businesses (we lived out West) to help him wash his clothes and even to find a job.

So here was his deal: Any dollar he earned, I would match. And if he held a job, I'd continue to pay his rent and pay for a pre-paid cell phone bill.

He tried to work for about a two to three weeks, then quit his job because it didn't pay enough. Then he let the apartment run down into total squalor. We stopped paying rent and last I heard he was back out on the streets.

I'm sure there are people who can use the help, but don't kid yourself that even 1/3 of street people even want help.
 
calveless wonder said:
^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept
Click to expand...


I fucking WISH I could get a car loan with a 10% APR.... NO ONE will lend me for a car...home, not even a fucking best buy card, I have ghost/no credit, it's not bad... it ANGERS me the way I'm treated about it, it's not like I did something bad to deserve it and whenever I apply for anything I get told no because I have no debt... awesome huh.... I'm gonna have to get a secured card that at least reports but lets get serious that doesnt do shit... I cant buy a damn lollipop if I dont have a damn cosigner.... :worried:
 
calveless wonder said:
^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept
Click to expand...

This is really what did it. People with perfect credit were the ones that were doing this because of their ability to put little to nothing down and do fast & easy (Countrywide product) loans. If you had little to nothing to put down on a home you could have the down payment and closing costs gifted to you by going through a "non-profit" service that allowed it to qualify through conforming guidelines. Funny thing was, internally CW loans weren't allowing these organizations to be used, but brokering through CW they were. CW reps actually had these guys come with them when they'd do continuing ed classes showing brokers how they could expand their business. The subprime borrowers I dealt with for the most part were people that had a Bk for legit reasons like a kid being sick, self employed went wrong and they went back to W-2 work, and had paid their shit up but still had low scores. The problem is now that people that are almost overqualified can't better their position because they're in dire straights and would have to be in foreclosure to get some relief.
 
calveless wonder said:
how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.
Click to expand...

The smart thing to do would be to buy a $5000 used car, and have no note, rather than to put $5000 down on a $25,000 car with 10% interest. I've been at many income levels in my short but long 43 years, and when I had only $500 for a vehicle, I bought a $500 VW Rabbit. No loans. I know I'm speaking the extreme, but I'm trying to make a point. My wife has never had a car loan in her life, and the whole key is patience. Think about this for a minute: You pay for a $25,000 car for 5 years (or God knows longer with some of these creative loans)... At 10% compounded annually, that's more than $12,500 in interest, assuming your payments are principal and interest from the beginning. Grand total for the $25,000 car = at least $37,500. Now reverse it: Invest the same $625 per month that you would have paid on that car loan, in a mutual fund in stead, assuming you get a decent rate like 3% in today's market, you will have $38,625 in cash. Now buy a $25,000 car, and put that extra $13,625 in the bank.

Charles
 
Java wasn't trying to be a prick, he just brought up a psychological counterpoint to the OP. We have usernames, and e-reps that go with them (especially after tens of thousands of posts). The financial collapse thing is everywhere now, so it's not exactly an esoteric issue. I think it turned into an interesting, debate-provoking thread... and we don't seem to have many of them nowadays.

I'd much rather read a Java/PM/CW/Jnev back-and-fourth than hear generic, predictable bum stories.

And to the dude who said under 50 is young: you're old. Just come to grips with it, man. It's okay, really.



:cow:
 
mrplunkey said:
I helped a homeless guy named Rodney <Last Name Omitted> about three years ago. It's a long story how we met and qualified him for help, but we essentially did an experiment. We rented him a very small but livable apartment. We made several runs to WalMart with him to buy food, clothes and household items. We lined him up with local downtown businesses (we lived out West) to help him wash his clothes and even to find a job.

So here was his deal: Any dollar he earned, I would match. And if he held a job, I'd continue to pay his rent and pay for a pre-paid cell phone bill.

He tried to work for about a two to three weeks, then quit his job because it didn't pay enough. Then he let the apartment run down into total squalor. We stopped paying rent and last I heard he was back out on the streets.

I'm sure there are people who can use the help, but don't kid yourself that even 1/3 of street people even want help.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if 1/3 of street people have the mental health to hold stable jobs. I've come across more than my fair share through volunteer work and various other means and a large portion are clearly mentally ill and either self medicate with drugs/alcohol, or just let the crazy run free.

I'm not saying this excuses anything, or that this should pull a cynics heartstrings. But I honestly don't think many of those people are even capable of being any other way, not once they are that far gone. I've never attempted to pull anyone out of the squalor, though I've certainly been tempted. But it costs me nothing to show some compassion, and very little to buy a sound meal.

When I was younger and lived in manhattan (before the giuliani days, when homeless people were all over the place), I had an experience on the subway that changed my perspective for the rest of my life. I still remember it like it was yesterday, but I couldn't have been more than 10. I was standing in a crowded car with my father, and a man came in and started singing for money. I was so embarrassed for him, I stared at my feet, the person in front of me, the wall, anything but him as he walked by. Later that day I tossed a bunch of change into a fountain that had been weighing down my pockets and a thought came into my head, "He could have used that to buy food." I was so ashamed of myself. Not for not giving him the money, so much, but for refusing to even looking at him - like if I didn't look, I could pretend he wasn't there, sharing his desperation and humiliation with everyone on that subway. I don't think since that day I've ever felt so much shame at something i'd done. I realize that's going to seem really freaking stupid to a lot of people, but I was a deep kid.

No joke, ever since that day, I will make eye contact with every single begger or homeless person who looks my way, even if it is to apologize and say I can't give them money. I'll probably be making amends to the subway car guy for the rest of my life, just by doing at least that.
 
Bah. Reading that I feel like a reh-tard. I'm not some bastion of altruism or anything. I've just never been able to shake this issue from my heart.
 
nefertiti said:
Bah. Reading that I feel like a reh-tard. I'm not some bastion of altruism or anything. I've just never been able to shake this issue from my heart.
Click to expand...
Honestly it's a very nice story, I guarantee your average kid wouldnt have even thought of that, kudos to you Nef :)
 
Some of my most profound memories of my childhood include homeless people. I guess it's an unusual upbringing, but sort of understandable considering both my parents are episcopal priests and much of homeless outreach work is done through churches. My parents are bleeding hearts (I say that with love), and much of it rubbed off on me. My dad and I frequently gave food to people on the streets. One christmas when my mom got my dad a new winter coat, christmas day we went into central park and gave his old coat to a homeless person there. My mom's first church had a soup kitchen that I helped with. I don't think a vaaaaast majority people, even people living in cities, get that much exposure that young.
 
mrplunkey said:
He tried to work for about a two to three weeks, then quit his job because it didn't pay enough. Then he let the apartment run down into total squalor. We stopped paying rent and last I heard he was back out on the streets.
Click to expand...

[fail]Plan[/fail]

RE: no killer internship participation
 
nefertiti said:
Java, PM me your story that got cut off in karmas.
Click to expand...

I'll post it for the forum....

So, I was about seven and school was going to start so my parents took me shopping for school supplies and clothes...a despicable activity for any child. School starts and I noticed one of my classmates has shoes in such a bad state that his toes are sticking out. Well, Brian gets a sharp idea, my old shoes were supposed to be "play shoes" because growing up in the country you beat the crap out of footwear but I decided to give them to my classmate. I secreted them away in my book bag, backpacks hadn't been invented yet,and gave them to my classmate. Well, I wasn't able to make excuses for the reason I was wearing my good shoes while wandering the creek. My mother gave the traditional punishment of picking out the switch for my switching for wearing my good shoes when I should have been wearing my old shoes...When I still couldn't produce my old shoes she asked me about it and I came clean about giving away my old shoes. To this day she feels bad about it and likes to point it out as a reason I'm a nice person. :) I'm so nice IRL my ex-wife claimed I was the kindest person she has ever known...but I did give her everything. :)
 
now that's a good story.

I can't top that, the only thing that I can add that's kinda in this line. The Lions Club used to collect old bikes, trikes, etc and fix them for the needy at Xmas. As time went on, the guys got older and it just started to be me and my dad. I fixed them, we recruited the firemen that would help while on duty, and then that became defunct as rules and regulations at the fiehouse git in the way. We still get bikes, but we joined with Wal-Mart, they bring me their returns. I still collect them, but the real Santa now is a guy who is on SS, he knows bicycles, and starting not too long from now, he'll come down and fix them. Usually he'll take 3-4 days, and instead of robbing one bike to fix another, he practically can make them all work. That means more bikes, trickes, little scooters, etc. So, he's the real Santa now.
 
The ones in NY are scary and cracky. The stories you hear from people helping them are not good. You give them a sandwhich... they throw it at you becaus ethey want drugs. I let a guy clean my windshield in Brooklyn recently and gave him a buck. But even those guys run scams. Make sure your other window is totally closed as they will have their friend grab all your stuff on your front seat. It just makes it hard tom speak to people knowing that many here are dangerous. Here on LI I honestly don't see many. People here have money or live in the shitty area for the most part.
 
Last edited:
PICK3 said:
[fail]Plan[/fail]

RE: no killer internship participation
Click to expand...

I should have made him bail hay on a cropless meal plan. Then between massive inflation under Reagan and 400% efficient turbines, he prolly would have succeeded.
 
calveless wonder said:
LOL @ trying to compare the impact of the economic climate on the computer industry as opposed to the real estate industry.

btw i was 21 years old when i started the business. And i had way more success and life experience at 24 than you probably had at 30.

you're like 40 years old there partner...with a low cost of living because you live in nowhere fuckin ohio. so your ability to sustain your business isn't something you should act all big swinging dick about. I'll be happy to use my mid 30's as the barometer of my professional success when i get there (in about a decade)

i think you need to get laid. 3 years of no fucking has obviously disrupted your brain chemistry
Click to expand...

No, I know how to NOT kill the golden goose because part of my business is risk management. I don't work for people that can't pay me...I wish I had a cultural bias to buy my services as well as the government subsidizing me and being able to shift all risk to the government. I have to be successful based on the product I can deliver, not a marketing gimmick or "get rich quick scheme." Talk to me when you start a business that isn't "no brainer" and anyone with a pulse can be successful....once you move out of your mother's basement...I haven't lived "at home" since I was eighteen..have never taken unemployment and don't cheat people. I consider myself a responsible person that shouldn't be bailing you out with subsidizes.
 
mrplunkey said:
I should have made him bail hay on a cropless meal plan. Then between massive inflation under Reagan and 400% efficient turbines, he prolly would have succeeded.
Click to expand...

So how can you be charitable without knowing someone is going to try to scam you :confused:
 
lartinos said:
The ones in NY are scary and cracky. The stories you hear from people helping them are not good. You give them a sandwhich... they throw it at you becaus ethey want drugs. I let a guy clean my windshield in Brooklyn recently and gave him a buck. But even those guys run scams. Make sure your other window is totally closed as they will have their friend grab all your stuff on your front seat. It just makes it hard tom speak to people knowing that many here are dangerous. Here on LI I honestly don't see many. People here have money or live in the shitty area for the most part.
Click to expand...

Jrsus rob
In austin teh bums are very grateful and respectdful. No one woyld ever run thosr scams. If i give someone a can of tuna they thank me like im jusus h christ
Im on austin texas
 
Strongbow said:
I would like nothing more at this point in my life, than to punch you square in the fucking mouth. You are one ignorant mutha fucker, regardless of how fucking educated you are.
Click to expand...

You could try but I would take you down and knee you in the head until you were unconscious and then take pictures to post. Internet "tough guys" are a dime a dozen...I think there is a nine year old girl on some message board you should threaten to feel tough. :)
 
calveless wonder said:
^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept
Click to expand...

I did my law school thesis in banking law on the S&L crisis..."I know how shit works. " They did the same thing when community banks were allowed to make commercial loans in the 1980's. In Dallas they doubled the office space, based on the bubble mentality, within five years and they were bailed out. Bill Clinton bailed out Wall street twice and most people don't know about it. Crony capitalism and capitalism aren't the same thing...
 
javaguru said:
You could try but I would take you down and knee you in the head until you were unconscious and then take pictures to post. Internet "tough guys" are a dime a dozen...I think there is a nine year old girl on some message board you should threaten to feel tough. :)
Click to expand...


step 1: call out an internet tough guy

step 2: act like an internet tough guy

step 3: get called out for acting like an internet tough guy

<<you are here>>

step 4: explain that you're not acting like an internet tough guy
 
jackangel said:
step 1: call out an internet tough guy

step 2: act like an internet tough guy

step 3: get called out for acting like an internet tough guy

<<you are here>>

step 4: explain that you're not acting like an internet tough guy
Click to expand...
It's called irony...How do I translate that to hindu talk?
Can I see your immigration papers? Indians are almost as shady as Mexicans...
 
javaguru said:
It's called irony...How do I translate that to hindu talk?
Can I see your immigration papers? Indians are almost as shady as Mexicans...
Click to expand...

step 1: call out an internet tough guy

step 2: act like an internet tough guy

step 3: get called out for acting like an internet tough guy

step 4: explain that you're not acting like an internet tough guy

<<you are here>>
 
javaguru said:
I did my law school thesis in banking law on the S&L crisis..."I know how shit works. " They did the same thing when community banks were allowed to make commercial loans in the 1980's. In Dallas they doubled the office space, based on the bubble mentality, within five years and they were bailed out. Bill Clinton bailed out Wall street twice and most people don't know about it. Crony capitalism and capitalism aren't the same thing...
Click to expand...

what was that about starting over?
 
calveless wonder said:
what was that about starting over?
Click to expand...

I didn't "start over" because I graduated from law school and took my MCSE tests and was working before any of my classmates took the bar. I never took the bar or practiced law....the only "real job" I've ever had outside of the military has been in IT and that goes back as far as 1998...
 
javaguru said:
I didn't "start over" because I graduated from law school and took my MCSE tests and was working before any of my classmates took the bar. I never took the bar or practiced law....the only "real job" I've ever had outside of the military has been in IT and that goes back as far as 1998...
Click to expand...

If you haven't had a new job every year then you haven't truly lived.


rite cw? amirite?
 
jackangel said:
step 1: call out an internet tough guy

step 2: act like an internet tough guy

step 3: get called out for acting like an internet tough guy

step 4: explain that you're not acting like an internet tough guy

<<you are here>>
Click to expand...

Captain obvious 2.0...I made that post intentionally and you didn't need to point it out because I made it so obvious a barely competent English speaker in new Delhi could tech support it as a sub-contractor for Dell. It isn't like I challenged him to a foot race meat up...That would be for serious...
 
superdave said:
Jrsus rob
In austin teh bums are very grateful and respectdful. No one woyld ever run thosr scams. If i give someone a can of tuna they thank me like im jusus h christ
Im on austin texas
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are other cities with crazy fucked up bumbs like in NYC. Now you know when you come to NY to watch your back, lol.
 
PuddleMonkey said:
If you haven't had a new job every year then you haven't truly lived.


rite cw? amirite?
Click to expand...

lol @ colormonkey...

I stayed with my first employer for four years because he was the first one to give me a software engineering job even though I didn't have a degree in the field. I could have jumped ship and made more money after he gave me the opportunity.
 
i dont know shit on the loans or all that crap. but your all assholes :)

i also refuse to give homeless people anything. probably because im a prick. I would give them something if i knew it would make difference and they deserved it. But there is no easy way to filter that. Maybe one day as I do feel bad for those who are down on their luck.
 
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