Experts: Why separate bulking up and cutting up cycles?

[LoneTree]

I have always wondered about this question:
Why can't you do both at the same time? What is the theory behinds it?

If you eat enough protein, but moderately cut back on rest of the calories, with the help of AAS, you should built muscle and lose fat.

I know that timing is very important for professional body builders because of competition shedules.
But for other aerage Joes, does it do any good to run separate bulking and cutting cycles? Will it also work better for them in terms of overall gains?

 

[*The_West*]

it can be done, especially if you have quite a high bodyfat to begin with. but for most, you are just asking too much of your body to burn fat and build muscle at the same time.
the thing is, when you are trying to build serious muscle, you also need high carbs and fat to help with this, its not enough just to eat high protein. so yes, it does workout better for average joe to bulk and then cut. you will get a lot more out of your bulk if you are prepared to put on a little bit of fat. if you have your diet and cardio sorted it will fly off afterwards anyway.
im not liking the term "cutting cycle" though. imo this is the domain of very serious/competitve bodybuilders.

 

[LoneTree]

it can be done, especially if you have quite a high bodyfat to begin with. but for most, you are just asking too much of your body to burn fat and build muscle at the same time.
the thing is, when you are trying to build serious muscle, you also need high carbs and fat to help with this, its not enough just to eat high protein. so yes, it does workout better for average joe to bulk and then cut. you will get a lot more out of your bulk if you are prepared to put on a little bit of fat. if you have your diet and cardio sorted it will fly off afterwards anyway.
im not liking the term "cutting cycle" though. imo this is the domain of very serious/competitve bodybuilders.

Why would you not lose that muscle when you try to cut?
With all due respect, I don't want 'theoretical' opinions from newbies. I have read all of them.
I have requested opinion from experts who actually have the experience of doing it both ways (or have seen people doing it).

 

[Tatyana]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

 

[*The_West*]

Why would you not lose that muscle when you try to cut?
With all due respect, I don't want 'theoretical' opinions from newbies. I have read all of them.
I have requested opinion from experts who actually have the experience of doing it both ways (or have seen people doing it).

"with all due respect" yes, placing yourself in a calorific deficit in the absence of anabolics, you probably will lose a very small (probably insignificant) amount of muscle mass along with the bodyfat. which if you are a competitive bodybuilder, is unnacceptable. however, for the average gym rat, who cares? you will have just come off a bulker, so (putting numbers in for arguments sake) lets say you have gained 10 lbs of lean muscle/ cutting after wards you lose 2lbs of lean muscle. so out of all of it, you have netted 8 lean lbs. which is pretty good, considering you can just bulk up again afterwards and do the same.
some people manage to stay lean while they bulk, i am one of them. i never put on much fat while i am building muscle, but that is mainly due to my metabolism and clean diet, as opposed to anabolics. which also is one of the reasons why building muscle is a slower process for me.
im currently taking a break from fighting and working my way up to light heavy for when i come back. its going to take quite a while, but i will not put on much fat while doing so.
my previous statement stands-for the average gym rat, sumer human gentics aside, a mix between mesomorph and ectomorph, it is aasking too much of the body to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. the copious amounts of food needed to build large amounts of quality mass will come with some fat gain. shed it later. if you are trying to bulk and cut at the same time, imo, you will be short changing yourself in terms of muscular gains.

 

[timtim]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

truth.

bulking is a thing of the past or a necessary evil for serious competitive bbers. no reason gym rats need to bulk and cut. should be consistently refining, not going up and down.

 

[cobracock1979]

I just completed 2nd cycle so by no means a vet, but I have just hit a keto diet the carb cycle. My body fat dropped from 15% to < 10 and I have gained about 10lbs muscle.

Can be done but a bulk then a cut overall will yield much more gains

 

[bobbie]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

+1
I just try to stay lean and add muscle al year round

 

[Burpees]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

im lean everywhere but on my stomach, and my love handles, a little on the inner thighs. I mean you can see shoulder striations, obliques, quad separation..but my mid section looks like somone who is fat and untrained. I assume I'm an Endo Meso.. What has been working for me, but seems to be THAT efficient is just putting weight on. I eat a lot, but try to avoid crap. I'm still as lean as I was when I started this cycle at 198lbs but I'm now 225lbs. I'm wondering if I should just work at a controlled pace to keep recompositioning (i dont think thats a word), or if I should cut down after my cycle, or maybe even during my cycle? Your advice is appreciated.

 

[needtogetaas]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

In the sport of power lifting?

 

[Tatyana]

In the sport of power lifting?

No, strongmen are meant to be chubby, and it is really cute on them.



Maurieuz is just a freak of nature

 

[mr.nitro]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

ever see lee priest in the off season? if I have to get some fat to build muscle like that then so be it.

 

[Burpees]

ever see lee priest in the off season? if I have to get some fat to build muscle like that then so be it.

thats how I look like now.. i look athletic in my shirt, but when im without my shirt i look like I used to be athletic and the only weight ive gained was my apple belly.

 

[timtim]

ever see lee priest in the off season? if I have to get some fat to build muscle like that then so be it.

he stopped doing this years ago as his heart was effected by the yo-yo dieting.

 

[needtogetaas]

No, strongmen are meant to be chubby, and it is really cute on them.



Maurieuz is just a freak of nature

 

[needtogetarmy]

Many pros kept tight diets all year. Like Dorian Yates.

Some people like to eat and get big. IMO it is a personal preference.

I would rather eat right 365 days a year than bulk and cut. This is a lifestyle for me and being healthy is the goal.

 

[Tatyana]

ever see lee priest in the off season? if I have to get some fat to build muscle like that then so be it.

As it was mentioned, he isn't doing that anymore, having to lose 70 lbs is just bonkers really.

Did you see what happened to Trey Brewer this year bulking up to over 300 lbs?

It wasn't pretty, and it didn't do him any favours.

 

[blackhatcowboy]

I look at the two as a type of concentration for my training. When I bulk or cut, I use a different diet and workout.

I see it as a way to get the most out of each type. I think I see better results when I plan for and focus on one or the other.

I'm not saying it is ok to use bulking as an excuse to fatten up, but use it as a focus point to plan diet and cycles (if you are going to).

 

[Bruce]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

I could not agree more. I am amazed at all the bulking cutting bs I hear. I have never gone above 10% and I am always bulking. I call it lean bulking or just bulking. If you are getting fat and bloated on a cycle and call it bulking you are just making more work for yourself when you "cut". If you ate clean the whole time in order to stay lean and bulk you can make each cycle more productive and get bigger and leaner then you would if you just bulk then cut. I can tell you as a super ecto eating 5000k cals was absolutely essential for me to grow gear or no gear. I would never have gotten past 180 if I hadn't pounded it. I don't get fat though so I can eat like a lazy bulker and stay lean.

 

[needtogetaas]

I could not agree more. I am amazed at all the bulking cutting bs I hear. I have never gone above 10% and I am always bulking. I call it lean bulking or just bulking. If you are getting fat and bloated on a cycle and call it bulking you are just making more work for yourself when you "cut". If you ate clean the whole time in order to stay lean and bulk you can make each cycle more productive and get bigger and leaner then you would if you just bulk then cut. I can tell you as a super ecto eating 5000k cals was absolutely essential for me to grow gear or no gear. I would never have gotten past 180 if I hadn't pounded it. I don't get fat though so I can eat like a lazy bulker and stay lean.

O shut up you couldn't add a bl of fat if you tried!!!! Mr 8000 cals and still 2%bf

I love ya bruce.

 

[Bruce]

O shut up you couldn't add a bl of fat if you tried!!!! Mr 8000 cals and still 2%bf

I love ya bruce.

yea but when i want to puke from eating so much i would sometimes rather eating small lean meals. i like healthy foods as much as i like junk food. it is nice when i have munchies though. i will admit that.

 

[goku_kakarot77]

Personally, I think all this bulking and cutting stuff is rubbish, yo-yo dieting for the lads.

Unless you are a hardcore ectomorph, you are more likely to put on more muscle if you keep your bodyfat in check, so not more that 15% max, and I think that is even pushing it for men, probably between 9-12% would be ideal.

I also don't think that eating anything more than 500-800 kcals above your maintenance each day is very sensible either.

Most of the time, 'bulking' is just an excuse for 85% of the lads to eat rubbbish and get fat.

100% Agree

 

[jroc86]

IMO its just easier ... within moderation. Diet, AAS, and training can be geared easily in one direction or the other, and ultimatley is LBM is slowly increasing why try and juggle the 2 @ once?

 

[needtogetaas]

yea but when i want to puke from eating so much i would sometimes rather eating small lean meals. i like healthy foods as much as i like junk food. it is nice when i have munchies though. i will admit that.

I am going to get you a copy of my book bro. You will love it for real.

 

[perryscoon]

Personally I find this to be the most difficult aspect of bodybuilding.

Jay Cutler says in one of his interviews on youtube that he "does nothing different before competition". Of course, this could be a lie, but I've never seen any pics of him fat, so I don't know what to think.

Surely, its possible to gain mass and stay super lean, but very very difficult, even with drugs.

I think thats why most people just say screw it, I'll gain some fat on this bulker and try to cut up at the end when I'm about to come off and stop making gains.

 

[needtogetaas]

when you are on that much shit you can say what ever you want

 

[perryscoon]

when you are on that much shit you can say what ever you want

True. I would love to see what he's on. I can only imagine.

 

[ledhead]

I know this is a old-ass post but i hope someone catches this. The fact of the matter is none of us here are pros,and I would venture to say the majority of the people on this sight are not independently wealthy which you would have to be in order to bulk-up clean and gain real quality muscle.For starters, it would be entirely to expensive you would have to eat at least 2 lbs of fish or red meat every 2 to 3 hrs along with all the complex carbs,and veggies not including all the sups you would have to take. It would be entirely to hard to take in all those quality calories for al ong period of time,and too darn expensive.Moreover, you would have to do this for at least a year even with gear to see quality gains. Who has the money to do this? I make an above average salary,and can only to do this maybe 3 or 4 months out of the year.
That being said I think we all can bulk up moderatly clean with some junk added for a while than cut for a while.

 

[George Spellwin]

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