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Eating for performance.

  • Thread starter Thread starter DBCooper
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DBCooper

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What's your opinion's on calorie intake and the ratios involved? Decided I need to clean up my eating habit a little and have already ordered my protein powder lol. Any comments on what a 270/280lb powerlifter should eat lol. I'm looking at around a 50/30/20 ratio on carb/protein/fat and at least 300 grams of protein, that's the basics so far, with three main meals and two smaller meals spaced out. Lets hear it please.
 
I think you've nailed the basics.

Some things to always make sure you're doing...
- Low GI carbs + fibre
- Good post-workout shake with 2:1 carb : protein
- Good fats... nuts, oils, eggs
- Keep everything whole as much as possible... the whey is great, but don't neglect the basics of real food

At your size, you'll be eating LOTS. Trial and error will find you the right calorie intake. Do you have any idea what you can maintain/gain/lose on now?
 
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My rule of thumb for grocery shopping is only buy stuff along the outside edge of the store. That's where the fresh stuff is, and that's where the good stuff is. Fruits, veggies, and meat.

I try to get 40-70 grams of protein every 2-3 hours, and just let the carbs happen as long as they're clean. I've been watching my carb intake at night though.
 
Well I know as soon as I start eating 3-4 meals a day my metabolism jumps up, the first good breakfast in me leaves me starving by noon. No clue as to how much colories I take in, I know some days it's high and others low. I'll probably start at 3500-4500 calories and get used to this eating normal thing lol.
 
i know ive been having trouble with carb intake now that im eating clean. Im getting around 200 a day, where i need to be atleast 300. Its a lot harder now when your not snaking on cakes and drinking soda.
 
I was talking about what you should eat not what you do eat, otherwise my list would be beer, hotwings, pizza, lasagna, ramen noodles, soda, buffets, and other crap lol. Oh and my gf lol. (had to throw that in there)
 
DB, I'm about the same weight as U. I tend to eat low carb, currently I take in under 100 grams per day. I'm rather lean for my bodyweight, and my strength is still going up.
 
edgecrusher said:
DB, I'm about the same weight as U. I tend to eat low carb, currently I take in under 100 grams per day. I'm rather lean for my bodyweight, and my strength is still going up.
Click to expand...

For a strongman or a powerlifter, I would never ever advocate a low carb diet.
 
hehe my favorite is making a big ass meaty and cheesy lasagne and eating it all day.... seems to be a perfect ratio for me!
 
I can expand on not advocating low carbs for an athlete. There is some sort of craze going on in America where low carb diets are big right now. The whole country wants that lean, athletic look, but the only problem is it is a "look". An athlete concerned with performance should only care about performance. A low carb diet leaves one feeling depleted and weak and without much endurance. If you are training hard, and eating clean, you won't get fat. Low/No carb diets work wonders for sedintary people or those who workout with low intensity (like pussies, underwear models, etc.). A 275lb powerlifter NEEDS carbs. An elite athlete cannot eat like an average person on an average diet like Atkins or something, and an elite athlete who competes at a body weight of ~100lbs more than the avg. person weighs really can't afford to eat like an average person.

A lot of clean carbs, like oatmeal, whole wheat bread and bagels, wheat pancakes, etc. will make you feel full and energized, and they do not pack excess fat on you.

I weigh about 270. I eat something like this.

8:30 AM

12 egg whites, 3 slices whole wheat toast, 3 servings of oatmeal.

11:30 AM

1/2 lb ground beef, 1 box Kraft Mac and Cheese

2:30 PM

2 scoops of Cytosport's Muscle Milk with 2 cups of skim milk a banana and 2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter mixed in.

5:30 PM

1 lb of boneless, skinless chicken, 3 servings of brown rice, 3 servings of a vegetable, and then something for dessert, either a candy bar or some pie or cake or something.

8:30 PM

2 scoops of muscle milk with 2 cups of skim milk, 2 whole wheat bagels with natural peanut butter (OR) a pizza with ham and pepperoni, and some Oreo cookies or a couple scoops of ice cream or something like that.

11PM

2 Cans of tuna fish with miracle whip, 4 slices of whole wheat bread.

What I try to worry about isn't so much a specific ratio, but I just say to myself I need a shitload of protein, a shitload of carbs, whatever fat happens to get in the way, and some sugar to keep my cravings down. I drink a gallon of skim milk throughout the day, a lot of Gatorade, a lot of water, and if I get the urge for an Iced Tea or a Coco-Cola I have 1 or 2, but I try to keep it few and far between.

Some tips are either have desserts like I do, or buy some of those little, mini snickers bars to snack on, or you will go crazy and after a week will eat 5 gallons of ice cream, trust me. Take a multi Vitamin, Vitamin C and also if you drink alcohol, it is good to add an additional B-Complex Vitamin because you will lose them through dehydration. I don't count anything, except protein, the rest I just go by feel. Sugar is the least important and is just good in small amounts to satisfy cravings, protein, fat and carbs are necessary staples of any athlete's diet.

What you have to keep in mind is forget about conventional diets for Joe Average. Look how you train....If you ate like this and your workout looked like this.....Bench Press 3x8-10, Incline Press 3x8-10, and Cable Crossovers 3x10-15, you'd get fat, and very fat, but look how you train, what class you compete in, and you'd see that extradorinary physical feats require not so average measures.
 
Yeah, I spend a lot of money on food, but I never hesitate to spend a penny on something I find important. I should buy stock in milk and eggs. I shop all the time, I grew to love the grocery store. I buy 3 gallons of milk on Mon and it is gone by Thurs, but I don't care what I spend on something I prioitize. There was a time when I would spend $200 on a night of drinking and club hopping, and all I had to show for that was a headache and more regrets than I care to count.

I've got a little recipe while I am thinking of it, and since you wanted ideas of what to eat DBcooper, here is. Sometimes I will make an enchalada casserole. It is 2lbs of lean ground beef (I like the 95/5 at Wegman's or the 90/10), any type of enchalada seasoning you want either canned, boxed, bottled, or something you made up myself, a package of Kraft Mexican Cheese, and 12 whole wheat tortillas, and 1 grated onion.

I brown the beef and the onion and season it, then layer a casserole dish with 4 tortillas, spoon on some of the beef mixture and sprinkle on some cheese. I repeat until I have 3 layers (at which point all my ingredients are used up. Then throw it in the oven at 375 until the cheese bubbles (about 15min, maybe more). I eat that with sour cream. I eat it throughout the day, it takes me 4 meals to finish it, in between I will drink a couple servings of muscle milk.

Just an idea, I have more if you want them, and they probably would be better suited to another forum, but I just wanted to put that here, cause the diet is related to how you train.

I never ate like total shit at any point in my life, but at times I'd skip breakfast, or I' go to a buffet and stuff myself to the point where I couldn't stomach food for another 6 hours, and that slows down the metabolism. Buffets can be a useful tool, but you need to be smart about them, sometimes too much shit will slow doen your metabolism and you won't wanna think about food the rest of the day. If you eat like I outlined, even though it my seem like a lot, it is generally clean, and you should be hungry every 2.5-3 hours right on the nose.

Oh yeah, if you have trouble with eggsin huge quantities, try scrambling in a half-pound of ham off the bone with them, or a half pound of ground beef or turkey, it helps them go down much quicker.

Give this a fair chance and I promise you'll love it, you'll be counting down the seconds to your next meal, and your next trip to the grocery store.
 
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DBC, before I dive in to this, you are very insulin sensitive like me, right? Carbs knock you out?
 
Spatts, I caught your post and I finished editing mine. I find that if I eat just carbs, they knock me out, but if I get a mix of a lot of carbs, a lot of protein, with some fat, I feel great.

I could never eat just oatmeal, then train, but if I eat say 3-4 servings of oatmeal, some toast, then 2 tablespoons of peanut butter, I feel fine. Or if I eat oatmeal, then a doughnut or 2, I am fine.
 
My oats are 1/2 cup raw oats, 1 scoop chocolate protein powder, 1 TBS natty peanut butter, and 2 packets of splenda. Tastes like Reeses and gets the job done.

I don't have your luck with the food combining. My diet has been about 60% protein since I was a kid. I get around 400g a day, every day. Typical type O from what I understand.

This thread really should be in the diet forum, but I fear the answers you'll get there, so I'm leaving it here.
 
Thanks Spatts, I know we talked, yes carbs knock me out. I was checking what everyone else was eating. I read that oats/milk/protein/pb shake thing in muscle food and will use that as well. I might first focus on increased protein intake, get that down and then move to the other parts.
 
Mine's not a shake, it's actually oatmeal, but I've done it that way too. I just put the oats in a coffee bean grinder until they are a fine powder, and mix it in the shake that way.

One of the easiest ways to eat clean is to never cross fat and carbs. Kinda hard to eat anything bad that way. :)
 
spatts said:
My oats are 1/2 cup raw oats, 1 scoop chocolate protein powder, 1 TBS natty peanut butter, and 2 packets of splenda. Tastes like Reeses and gets the job done.
Click to expand...
Yummm...that sounds really good.

Mental note: add above to grocery list
 
BigBad BootyDaddy29, I can understand where you are coming from w/ your recomenedations. If I may ask what sport is it you compete in? The reason I am asking, is because I am both a strength coach and a football player myself. I utilize as well, as advise other indivduals to take in a diet that is somewhat carb restictive. The main reason being, nothing impacts your hormonal levels like carbohydrates do. When you take in high carbs, your insulin will go up and down, and you will have to keep eating to keep your levels stable. (something that is not favorable during a game.)

If an individual is carb sensitive, that opens up a whole nother topic.
 
Spatts, have you ever thought about just adding strait fiber to your protein shakes? It lowers the GI of the supplement, as well as helping w/ intestinal absorbtion.
 
Edgecrusher, I played football (D 2 in college). Maybe it is just a personal thing with me, but I always feel better and perform better when I eat like I outlined, when i start restricting things (other than sugar), I tend to feel weak, small, and zapped of all my energy.

I understand the theory behind what you just posted. With me, If I eat carbs alone I will crash about 20 min later, but if I mix them with protein and whatever fat happens to be there I feel fine. When I first read your post, I thought you were coming from a bodybuilder's perspective, if I knew what you did, I would have asked some questions. How do your athletes tend to respond? how is their strength in the gym? and how is their ability to perform endurance and volume work in the weight room? like 225 for reps, or 5 or more work sets of squats (if you use that approach).

When I played ball, before a game I would eat a grilled cheese sandwich and drink Gatorade, then closer to kickoff, I'd have a Gatorade bar, then after the game anything I could fit in my mouth was fair game. The way I ate 6 days a week differed from what I did on game day.

I am sure your approach is more scientific than mine, mine is just based on what seems to work for me. Like I said, I don't have a ratio, the only thing I will occasionally count is protein, and I don't have any statistics, except my own performance to back me up, all I simply say to myself is overeat the protein, get a lot of carbs, don't try for fat, but don't sweat it, and have something sweet so you don't go crazy with cravings.

However, you picked my interest, would you mind posting a sample diet of what you'd prescribe in terms of nutrition??
 
Well, the diets I do tend to be based on quite a few things. The simplest of them is bodyfat storage. During an evaluation, along w/ all the other tests I do, I take a 12 sight body fat measurement. From that, I can start to form a protocol. Depending on what the BF sights tell me, I generally choose 1 of 3 diets.

1) Low carb- about 60 percent of the populus responds well to this, due to America's infatuation w/ processed carbohydrate intake.

2) a 40/30/30 protocol. This works for about 25-30% of the population.

3) High carb 60% or more of the dietary intake from carbs. This only works for about 10-15 % of the population.

As far as my athletes performance, they do nothing but excel. WE do not really worry about 225 for reps, because that is not football specific. But, they all handle volume and strength training very well. As far as there perfromance on the field is concerned, as we know that is based on there ability to play the game, but all have seen increase in strength, and there speed has benefitted from the reduction in body fat.

As far as a sample diet goes, I have one stashed away somewhere, I'll dig it out and post it later.
 
Edgecrusher, I use oatmeal 'cause I like the way it tastes. :)

That's a great suggestion though. I get a lot of fiber because of my diet.

Here's a copy of my old bulking diet:

http://www.asylum-strength.com/images/personal/spatts/bulk.jpg

I carb rotate, which means I eat the same amount of fat and protein daily, and rotate the carbs based on need. No training, don't need as many carbs; training days, I eat more. After training, I stick to fibrous carbs. I no longer train at this time of day, but it will give you an idea of food choice and ratios. The diet in the link represents an average between a high carb day and a low carb day.

Instead of thinking about what to avoid in food, think about what the food has to offer....is it rich in vitamins and minerals? The most nutritious foods aren't going to be high cal, high sat fat, high GI carb, etc. Where it says "meat or shake" that's because I only use one shake a day max. Real food is always preferred. Clean, and a lot of it. :)
 
ok if you eat clean and you have intense workouts, you wont get too fat. that makes sense

what if the example (well over 200 lb powerlifter) would like to lose some fat. would eating the same way still work? would I..i mean they ;)..have to have a deficit? or will the change in eating habits and the bump in protein intake take care of the fat issue?
 
louden_swain said:


For a strongman or a powerlifter, I would never ever advocate a low carb diet.
Click to expand...


Although i really do not want to spark another debate, aparently this is not true. Both dipasqualie and the Kaz did just fine without too many carbs
 
collegiateLifter said:



Although i really do not want to spark another debate, aparently this is not true. Both dipasqualie and the Kaz did just fine without too many carbs
Click to expand...

Im with you on this one collegiate lifter. I have been following a high fat, high protien, moderate carbs diet for 4weeks now and have really felt great. Most of my carbs come before lunch, then a few more in the form of cottage cheese before a workout to keep me up in energy. I honestly feel like Im losing BF, while keeping muscle AND STRENGTH, which has been hard for me with low fat diets. I may break down and start using the BF calipers jsut to see whats going on a little better.

DB-Im following Mike R's diet plan from GotFina, and it works out to about 4300cal. You might want to talk to him a bit more in depth as to the nuts and bolts of the diet, but Im not feeling nearly as sluggish as i thought i might without all the carbs.

Later..
 
DBCooper said:
What's your opinion's on calorie intake and the ratios involved? Decided I need to clean up my eating habit a little and have already ordered my protein powder lol. Any comments on what a 270/280lb powerlifter should eat lol. I'm looking at around a 50/30/20 ratio on carb/protein/fat and at least 300 grams of protein, that's the basics so far, with three main meals and two smaller meals spaced out. Lets hear it please.
Click to expand...

dont neglect fats... they are neccessary for optimal hormone release.... including testosterone...

try an isocaloric diet (1/3 of each).
 
Different people are fueled by different ratios...through trial and error you have to find what works for you. I do just fine on a high protein, and AS NECESSARY high carb diet. That's just me though. Losing and gaining weight is easy. Losing fat while maintaining the most muscle possible takes more strategy, and a lot of that has to do with knowing yourself. If I ate a shit load of carbs I wouldn't be able to lift anything. That's just me. I would be asleep on the floor next to the bench.

DB you're going to get as many opinions as there are people on this thread. I would suggest taking one thing that you feel like you can do, and do consistently, and go with it. Then if you feel like you are ready to make another change in a few weeks, go for it. This way you also know what's working and what's not.

It sounds like you're already doing this with the idea of focusing on your protein intake for now.

If you're not trying to lose fat, and just treat your body better, you just need to throw in a few new/different food choices. I haven't seen you mention fat loss yet...just a "cleaner diet."
 
spatts said:
Protein Fiend, that logic is subjective.
Click to expand...
\

I dont know Spatts... im pretty sure adding fat to a meal will lower the Glycemic index of the entire meal, and result in less of an insulin spike.
 
Depends on the carb.

Also, since when is an insulin spike bad if there's no fat there to cause a problem?
 
So I shouldn't eat pancakes, eggs, bacon, and sausage together at the same time? Ah shucks, there goes my power breakfast. :D
 
ProteinFiend said:
\

I dont know Spatts... im pretty sure adding fat to a meal will lower the Glycemic index of the entire meal, and result in less of an insulin spike.
Click to expand...

It will depend on the type of fat. protein is a more favorable choice for this.
 
spatts said:
Depends on the carb.

Also, since when is an insulin spike bad if there's no fat there to cause a problem?
Click to expand...

Insulin will shunt any excess calories into fat cells. If you have a super high insulin spike everything will be stored, proteins, carbs, and fats.
 
That's funny, eating this way got me to 8% three times with no drugs whatsoever. :)

Again, depends on your carb choices, and timing plays a part too.
 
Hydro/caliper. University of Kansas Physiology Lab. I have been getting them done every 3 months for years.

I'm not sure why this seems shocking to everyone. I know many people that "cut" this way. Also, I'm not your average insulin resistant American. I have hyperinsulinism, if anything, and it still works for me.
 
I thought there was a concensus reached here fifteen times that everyone has individual biochemical and hormonal levels as well as a differing response to types of macronutrients. There is no definative science proving lo carb or lo fat, or the berardi style eating. For that matter if the lo carb type diet was the "Correct" solution then wouldn't all asian people, who eat mainly rice and vegetables with occasional meats, be obese?

I belive in eating whole foods as much as I can, just because 2 products have the same macro nutrient breakdown doesn't mean they are anywhere near the same as far as micronutrient content or digestability. In american grocery stores it is easy to be overfed and malnourished at the same time. Take for instance bread, even the whole wheat bread. By law it need only contain 1% whole wheat flour to be considered whole wheat. Also the ones that do use 100% whole wheat are sweeted with high fructose corn syrup and use hydrogenated oils.

Some people may say this is ridiculous but when I am paying attention to my diet, I buy my meat from a butcher shop that uses beef with no hormones, I buy my breads from a family baker who is certified organic and who uses no refined ingrediants. I get all the rest of my carbs from a health fod store that specializes in natural and organic foods. The do not sell products that have been processed or altered. It may seem irrational but I can eat like a human being is meant to eat ( consume a normal amount of all three macronutrients) and still lose weight and get stronger.
 
I am not disputing anyone's claims here. I am simply sharing what has worked for both myself and the athletes I train. The reason I asked Spatts how she tested her bf levels is simply because 8% body fat is insanely low for women. I mean gymnasts and sprinters are generally double digit.
 
lol, not to worry, I only held it for a few hours. Then I had some cheesecake. :D

I can hold 10-12%, but it's hard work. 15% is so comfortable that I sit at 18% for good measure. ;)

I really don't think any of this means anything to DBC, anyway. He just needs to throw some liquid vits in the weekend refreshments. :D
 
collegiateLifter said:



Although i really do not want to spark another debate, aparently this is not true. Both dipasqualie and the Kaz did just fine without too many carbs
Click to expand...

I agree....Obviously everyone is different in how their body handles different nutritional approaches. But Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale has shown that a CKD can certainly work for a power lifter.
 
edgecrusher said:


It will depend on the type of fat. protein is a more favorable choice for this.
Click to expand...

protein will NOT lower insulin response. fats lower the spike.. but increase the duration (which is usually good).
 
ProteinFiend said:


protein will NOT lower insulin response. fats lower the spike.. but increase the duration (which is usually good).
Click to expand...

care to support this? I have always heard that protein can blunt insulin response (and alternatively it can add to it, depending on the protein)
 
collegiateLifter said:


care to support this? I have always heard that protein can blunt insulin response (and alternatively it can add to it, depending on the protein)
Click to expand...

its a thin line... i dont have the text on me right now... but its something like: It can blunt plasma glucose levels but not insulin response... ill have to check once I get home.
 
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