Drugs don't work!!!

[aquatic_glories]

You people are missing one thing.. For a drug to be ideal, your hormones has to be recovered after you stop using it. But that doesnt mean you use hcg clomid and get a blood test a week later. No , at very least one month..2-3 is much better.. Lots of researches are being posted in the claim of x drug working well.. you used hcg clomid and your test got up to 1000 ?? so what? you use test enanthate and your test goes to 2500.. It is the later months that matters..

btw high dose clomid and nolvadex(both from pharmacy) for 3 weeks and my test levels vere 237.. then 3 weeks of nothing and my test levels were over 800.. which is a perfect proof that they arent ideal for everyone.. I am not even counting the fact they fuck the hell out of your personality..

I used to be well against Nelson's ideas of PCT etc.. but he is damn right on most of the things.. At least , he is the least wrong among the "experts."

hcg clomid nolvadex adex bromo is PCT? You cannot reach homeostatis with 9309 different drugs

 

[Nelson Montana]

You people are missing one thing.. For a drug to be ideal, your hormones has to be recovered after you stop using it. But that doesnt mean you use hcg clomid and get a blood test a week later. No , at very least one month..2-3 is much better.. Lots of researches are being posted in the claim of x drug working well.. you used hcg clomid and your test got up to 1000 ?? so what? you use test enanthate and your test goes to 2500.. It is the later months that matters..

btw high dose clomid and nolvadex(both from pharmacy) for 3 weeks and my test levels vere 237.. then 3 weeks of nothing and my test levels were over 800.. which is a perfect proof that they arent ideal for everyone.. I am not even counting the fact they fuck the hell out of your personality..

I used to be well against Nelson's ideas of PCT etc.. but he is damn right on most of the things.. At least , he is the least wrong among the "experts."

hcg clomid nolvadex adex bromo is PCT? You cannot rich homeostatis with 9309 different drugs

Bingo. All salient points.

 

[_Nomad]

I like Erase + strong AI such as Aromasin for PCT alongside with N2Guard. Good thing I don't see Nelson at some other forums I sometimes visit, I think he would rage non stop at the idiocy there. The amount of people that still swear by Nolva and Clomid and actively recommend them for PCT is astounding.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I like Erase + strong AI such as Aromasin for PCT alongside with N2Guard. Good thing I don't see Nelson at some other forums I sometimes visit, I think he would rage non stop at the idiocy there. The amount of people that still swear by Nolva and Clomid and actively recommend them for PCT is astounding.

It's just one of those things. A lot of people never heard of Beastdrol, but those who've used it knows it kicks ass. A lot of sites are just familiar with the books on drugs and the bullshit supplement companies so they're not willing to accept anything beyond their knowledge. But I know a lot of people who say they get horrible sides from nolve yet they STILL take it because they think they must!

 

[UA_Iron]

The effect of aromatase inhibitor letrozole on body mass index, serum hormones, and sperm parameters in infertile men


Better summary of the article

Letrozole, the new anti-estrogenic T booster

+1 for these "terrible breast cancer drugs"

 

[UA_Iron]

Why is this a sticky? It doesn't give any novel ideas, in fact its the same stuff Nelson has been bitching about for years just approaching the concept from a different standpoint.

You don't even run PCT, Nelson. How come you're the authority on it?

 

[Nelson Montana]

The effect of aromatase inhibitor letrozole on body mass index, serum hormones, and sperm parameters in infertile men


Better summary of the article

Letrozole, the new anti-estrogenic T booster

+1 for these "terrible breast cancer drugs"

That's an aromatase inhibitor, not a SERM.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Why is this a sticky? It doesn't give any novel ideas, in fact its the same stuff Nelson has been bitching about for years just approaching the concept from a different standpoint.

You don't even run PCT, Nelson. How come you're the authority on it?

It's obvious you're trying to combative, though I'm not sure why. You're also showing your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Why is anything a sticky? Because it contains relevant information that a lot of people, including newcomers, may want to see.

I have also run many PCT, so you're wrong -- which is fine, but don't make an accusation -- ask. Also, I have coached people with their PCT and studied the effects for about, oh, 15 years now. I'll guess that I've probably done more research on the subject than you.

So, I'm presenting my findings to the board. You okay with that? Good.

 

[johnnyrockit8665]

I am editing your post...... and giving you a warning.

debate all you want.. but you need to leave out the personal attacks. that won't be tolerated on here. if you have a disagreement with someone take it to a private message and act diplomatic with them. dont come on the board and start calling people clowns. I see it again and you will be timed out.

this debate is passionate on both sides and I am somewhat in the middle on it but its always good to have them because in the end everyone can make their own decisions.. thats what the board is for. but please be respectful!

Well said, Sir!

Thanks Nelson you always keep things interesting on here. Dont stop! I learn alot from these debates....

 

[UA_Iron]

That's an aromatase inhibitor, not a SERM.

So what?

1. Your typical argument in your first post was building up the idea that breast cancer drugs are bad and listing some of the things they are designed for with encompassing the whole scope of their uses. Kind of a misrepresentation of the matter as an argument, beating it down and claiming victory - otherwise known as straw man rhetoric, a common logical fallacy. So you haven't proven that A is better than B yet.

2. Your misrepresentation of breast cancer drugs goes into avoiding Aromatase Inhibitors completely in your argument. Which are very affective at some of the things we intend to do with PCT.

3. Your argument of "natural is the way to go" is silly at best. It's like how some organic pesticides are much worse than synthetic ones. "well we should use this because its 'natural'" doesn't mean anything and isn't a valid argument unless you have studies, examples, data to back its superiority of the other product. Which leads to my next point:

4. The studying of affects on PCT that you've done and the reporting of findings is so poorly done that why would someone believe you if you weren't on this board for so long and have had some many posts and pull on the AAS board? How would I possibly discern your studies findings from the special interests you have in pushing these supplements? Is there not some kind of special interest or bias in your "studies" from the very beginning? (hint: there is). What's your sample size? Have you any formal training in statistical methods around studies, especially ones of this magnitude?

5. Perhaps it was premature of me to assume that you had not done PCT. I was under the assumption that you were on HRT which you would not have to do PCT. My apologies for the assumption and the original argument that now holds no water.

You're also showing your lack of knowledge on the subject.

How? I never claimed that I knew anything about the subject of PCT. My argument is against your [lack of] logic to prove points.

If you've done your homework, Nelson, then your first post would, at the very least, include HCG in its prescription form and Aromatase Inhibitors [both are drugs that do work, and work very well by the way]. Or else I suggest you retitle the article/thread "Nelson Montana's Opinion on how to do an all herbal PCT"

I don't doubt the effectiveness of the drugs or supplements listed in the first post. I haven't used them so I can't comment one way or another.