Drugs don't work!!!

[DJLegacy2k1]

This kid should be banned from posting for a while, he's 5 posts in and just starting shit & obviously fairly misguided.

 

[deejleos]

This kid should be banned from posting for a while, he's 5 posts in and just starting shit & obviously fairly misguided.

Agreed. A little class and respect please.

 

[Flash421]

I agree as well No need in the personal attack but I would like to see this debate continue

 

[Nikoli]

hi
im sorry to barge in like this but i got confused because of the post and the comments
which was it clomid and nolva ?
or what Mr nelson said of Unleashed ??
at the page of the unleashed it says at the end. Unleashed stacks well with the PCT
does that mean it need to be added to the Nolva, clomid or just Unleashed by it self will be sufficient ?????

 

[stevesmi]

we will not advance in the bodybuilding world if we do not keep talking and discussing things.

this industry is slow to evolve because of the legality and no one talks about this stuff outside the board, we are all ignorant without these boards.. so let the debate rage on.

 

[trex74]

Just jumping in to say that an uncontrolled study proves nothing. It's just observation.
A double blind controlled study would give your remarks more weight.
There is a pretty rigorous scientific process to determine whether drugs are effective and in the best interests/with the least risks for the person taking the drugs.
Simply following 12 people and observing their results is meaningless to your argument.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'm all for debate, but when you delete my posts when they are clearly not breaking any rules, what does that mean?

............................................


IT MEANS YOU CLEARLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. INSULTING PEOPLE IS AGAINST THE RULES. THIS ISN'T 9TH GRADE. ACT LIKE AN ADULT OR LEAVE. THIS IS THE LAST WARNING. I DON'T HAVE TIME TO EXPLAIN PROPER BEHAVIOR TO YOU.



....................................................................



Do you know what the androgen:estrogen ratio is?

.........................


THAT'S SNOTTY. YOU'RE BATTING 1000 KID.



.........................................




It means when an AI is taken and the body senses a lowered estrogen level, the body then compensates and raises testosterone output. So you statement of, "lowering estrogen dose not always mean increasing testosterone" is flat wrong.

.............................

WELL, THAT'S JUST A PIECE OF THE EQUATION. THERE ARE MANY VARIABLES. AND SOMONE CAN HAVE LOW ESTRO AND LOW T. IF ALL IT TOOK WAS LOWERING ESTRO, THEN WE CAN JUST TAKE AI'S AND NOT STEROIDS. BESIDES, CLOMID IS AN ESTROGEN. SO ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC, IT'LL LOWER TESTOSTERONE.


...................................................................



There was a study done on obese patients (high estrogen) given Letro at 2.5mg/wk and the outcome - testosterone rose by 4x.
..........................

AGAIN -- MANY VARIABLES. IF THEY HAD SUPERPHYSIOLOGICAL LEVELS OF ESTRO, YES, THERE WOULD BE A SLIGHT ELEVATION OF T IF THEY WERE NORMALIZED. BUT THAT DOSEN'T MEAN THAT THE LOWER THE ESTRO, THE HIGHER THE TEST. THAT'S WHERE YOU TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION AND DREW AN ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

....

 

[Nelson Montana]

Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism

1. Departments of1Internal Medicine2Clinical Chemistry, Ziekenhuis Rijnstate, Wagnerlaan 55, 6800 TA Arnhem, The Netherlands

1. (Correspondence should be addressed to H de Boer; Email:

Abstract

Objective Isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH) is frequently observed in severely obese men, probably as a result of increased estradiol (E2) production and E2-mediated negative feedback on pituitary LH secretion. Aromatase inhibitors can reverse this process. This study evaluates whether letrozole once a week can normalize serum testosterone in severely obese men and maintain its long term effect.

Design Open, uncontrolled 6-month pilot study in 12 severely obese men (body mass index>35.0 kg/m2) with obesity-related IHH and free testosterone levels <225 pmol/l, treated with 2.5 mg letrozole once a week for 6 months.

Results Six weeks of treatment reduced total E2 from 123±11 to 58±7 pmol/l (P<0.001, mean±s.e.m.), and increased serum LH from 4.4±0.6 to 11.1±1.5 U/l (P<0.001). Total testosterone rose from 5.9±0.5 to 19.6±1.4 nmol/l (P<0.001), and free testosterone from 163±13 to 604±50 pmol/l (P<0.001). Total testosterone rose to within the normal range in all subjects, whereas free testosterone rose to supraphysiological levels in 7 out of 12 men. The testosterone and E2 levels were stable throughout the week and during the 6-month treatment period.


Conclusion Letrozole 2.5 mg once a week produced a sustained normalization of serum total testosterone in obese men with IHH. However, free testosterone frequently rose to supraphysiological levels. Therefore, a starting dose <2.5 mg once a week is recommended.

Thank you for that. It works WHILE ON. (Like I said in the original post). It doesn't cure anything or return levels simply from using it. It's a drug that treats a symptom.

Also...

A: They're talking about letro -- which I always recommend over clomid and nolva.


Thank you for that as well.


Case closed. Point proven.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Just jumping in to say that an uncontrolled study proves nothing. It's just observation.
A double blind controlled study would give your remarks more weight.
There is a pretty rigorous scientific process to determine whether drugs are effective and in the best interests/with the least risks for the person taking the drugs.
Simply following 12 people and observing their results is meaningless to your argument.

That too.

Yet we seem to have to explain this to someone who just joined the board every few weeks.

But what gets me is that they're not at all curious. They're just arrogant and have attitude and think the world is waiting to hear what brilliance they're about the spout. I mean, after all, they cut and paste a study!

 

[trex74]

That too.

Yet we seem to have to explain this to some who just joins the board.

But what gets me is that they're not at all curious. They're just arrogant and have attitude and think the world is waiting to hear what brilliance they're about the spout. I mean, after all, they cut and paste a study!

If we knew all there was to know about the human body there would be no need for any new thought at all. Thankfully that's not the case. I agree with your advice (reading between the lines here) to be careful with unwanted side effects from taking some kinds of PCT.
Hell, I'm not even a guy, and it makes sense to me. Then again, I would not take AAS under any circumstances, even if I were a guy. I'm a bit cautious that way.