CoolColJ or other O-lifters... a couple more questions

[lemur]

Hey, before I start this is probably going to be long so I don't blame you if you don't read it

I was recently giving a strength routine a try, but about 3-4 weeks in I was just burnt out. I liked the program and I was going up in weight but it would burn me out for too long afterwards and it was screwing up my fencing. I never experienced this when I was doing any sort of training for hypertrophy so I figure it was the low reps that killed me.

I am interesting in doing some sort of full body routine based around power cleans, hang cleans, squats, push presses and possibly snatch (as I understand you need a wider grip for snatch and the bars I use don't really allow as wide as I've seen). However, I'm going to be doing about 15 hours of cardio weekly as soon as school starts (about a week into september) so I'm not sure if O-lifting is the best thing for me. I also know that O-lifts have good carryover to sports and this is also somethingt I would like to take advantage of.

So onto the actual questions:
-how would you arrange a routine with the lifts I listed? what body parts would be "neglected" so to speak? (ie which ones do I add extra work for). I was thinking those lifts with some bent over rows, dips and front squats or something. I'm not asking for a whole routine, just what exercises should be first, and which shouldn't I do on the same days, etc.
-what kind of rep ranges do you use for your lifts? I know a few guys who O-lift and it's totally varied between them, although I've noticed that the # of reps is usually lower than total sets. (ie 8 sets of 2, or something)
-do you see strength carryover to other things with O-lifts? In my school we get bonus marks in gym for being able to outlift the teachers in things like bench presses, curls, etc, which I have never been very fond of. Will I need to train these seperately to get them up or should the rise on their own?
-How long do your programs generally last? I was thinking a program of maybe 2-3 months like this, is that too long?


if you actually read this, I would really appreciate if you could answer any of the questions I had.

 

[coolcolj]

I'll reply when I get back from the gym and other chores

 

[coolcolj]

I am interesting in doing some sort of full body routine based around power cleans, hang cleans, squats, push presses and possibly snatch

-how would you arrange a routine with the lifts I listed? what body parts would be "neglected" so to speak? (ie which ones do I add extra work for). I was thinking those lifts with some bent over rows, dips and front squats or something. I'm not asking for a whole routine, just what exercises should be first, and which shouldn't I do on the same days, etc.

Well anytime you do OL, the whole body is used pretty much.
Basicly I would put the major compound moves all on one day, and the O Lifts on a separate day.

You could have -

Day1 - squat, bench, row and abs
Day2 - hang snatch, snatch, hang clean, power clean etc
lightness to heaviest
Day3- Push press, shoulders, cuff and arms

another way is to have one of each per day.

Day 1- Snatch, back squat, bench
day 3- Hang clean, push press, arms
Day 2- Clean, front squat, row

the sky is the limit. You could do worse than a 3 days a week whole body routine with different exercises on each day.

-what kind of rep ranges do you use for your lifts? I know a few guys who O-lift and it's totally varied between them, although I've noticed that the # of reps is usually lower than total sets. (ie 8 sets of 2, or something)

Well with OL generally around 3-5, becuase they are heavily skill based and tiring, keep the reps low. Use 5 if you want more of a hypetrophy effect, and rest well at least 2mins between sets

I would not do anymore than 12-14 total sets per workout, so use that juggle your sets count per exercise

-do you see strength carryover to other things with O-lifts? In my school we get bonus marks in gym for being able to outlift the teachers in things like bench presses, curls, etc, which I have never been very fond of. Will I need to train these seperately to get them up or should the rise on their own?

OL have some carry over to such things as deadlifts, rows and squats, maybe curls as you do use your biceps quite a bit. But mainly for explosive jumping/running and shrugging stuff. For bench press you'll need to do it as well.

-How long do your programs generally last? I was thinking a program of maybe 2-3 months like this, is that too long?

I get stale after 6-9 weeks, depending how well the program is cycled. You should drop the volume every 3-4 weeks for the body to rest a bit.

have a look at this cycled programs for ideas

http://www.liftthis.com/ol_pl_Workout.htm

http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&articleID=21

 

[lemur]

The first routine you listed looks almost perfect for my goals.. however I will be dropping full snatches and replacing them with overhead squats as I am not confident with my form. I think I'm also gonna throw front squats in on day 3.

I can't thank you enough for doing this, I'm going to be starting this routine as soon as I am finished my training camp next week.

I'll run it through my strength coach there and maybe get him to double check my form on a couple things, too.

thanks again

 

[coolcolj]

just be careful of overtraining the shoulders and traps.

chest and OL recruit them heavily

 

[thriller]

coolcolj, im about to finish strength training in a month and im trying to put together this same sorta thing. i want to incorporate the lifts for verticle jump. iv been looking at your vertical thraid abit.
im proly going to add this stuff to my program when i start these sorta lifts.
is there a site that you know of that shows you how to do these lifts?

 

[coolcolj]

watch the vids - I have linked many in that thread, you need to see the moves to see how its done, and even then its diffcult to grasp the intent of the move. Basicly you jump with the bar and catch it. Well technically you propel the bar up with your body in a sorta jumping motion, but legs do leave the ground.

You don't even need to rack the bar. Just grab some dumbells or a bar and jump with it. That's basicly what OL are - sorta. But the racking of that bar and utilistaion of the upper does help upper body strength and power whilst using the legs in a single unit.

I suggest a coach if you can get one, it will save you lots of bruised knees, forehead (with snatches) and chest, sprained wrists. You also need lots of flexiblity in the shoulders and ankles.
It will take about 2-3 months of continuous practise with a wooden staff then an empty bar to get the groove, while working on flexibility. I actually used the form practise as my warmup, and still do.

Can you afford this sort of time? Right now I think I'm the only person in my gym that does these moves in a remotely proper fashion. Most people just sorta do a lower back reverse curl type of thing with power cleans. No jumping what so ever.

I suggest you try doing jump shrugs - grab a barbell and quarter squat down and jump with it, keeping the bar close to the body at all times, shrugging the shoulders once your legs are fully extended, that is pretty much the start phase of a hang clean.

In a proper hang clean you continue to pull the bar with your arms once the shrug is finished up to shoulder levels, then you let go of the bar and pull yourself under the bar, front squatting down with a slight knee bend and rack the bar on your shoulders and palms.

Oh and its fairly normal for your wrists to hurt for the first 2-3 months of doing Olympic lifts, cuffs, traps and shoulders too.

 

[thriller]

thanks again man il keep looking for links on that thread.

im thinking the only plys i will do will be between some sets.
what do you think about that? and ill also put some mats undr me.

 

[coolcolj]

I tried that but go a fat zero result

basicly anytime my squat goes up my olympic lifts go up and so does my vertical jump. You need to keep squatting your ass off. I didn't see any results until after 2 months+. Then your making real strength gains, anytime before that its mainly neural gains