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RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
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Bought some Meridia

Joe's Girl said:
How do you deal with cravings it is so hard I started my cutting diet for my bodybuilding show in November, getting awesome results but the fact is now I crave things I don't really like, it is weird...Any suggestions would be appreciated....I staarted to chew gum more to crave my cravings...

Just a thought on what you are craving on a restricted comp diet. It is definitely an art form to keep your cravings under control Particularly the mental ones. You didn't mention what your cravings are - I was going to say, if you get insane cravings for things like peanut butter, you might want to check your fat intake & adjust it to make sure you are getting enough fats.

Otherwise, for just regular, "goddammit I'm hungry" cravings, stuff I was allowed to have (in moderation) included:

- protein mix + tofu
- crystal light
- sugar free ice pops

The protein mix + tofu takes a bit to get used to, but its low cal, low carb, low fat, protein source. The rest works, but you need to watch the amount of splenda or other artificial sweetener. You can also chug water!

Also, to help make it from meal to meal when I was really struggling, I got into posting on muscle boards ..... !
 
gypsy -

have you encountered any of the sides commonly listed for meridia use? E.g.:

Headache
Dry mouth
Insomnia
increased blood pressure
Constipation

?
 
Oh my god, Peanut Butter is by far my BIGGEST craving, I go nuts with it sometimes! I also crave fruit on the weekends. This past weekend was pretty hard, I was bored, the weather was bad AND I was starving. Oh, and had PMS! Of course I just wanted nothing more than to eat. Some of it is mental though, I find it harder not to cheat on the weekends because I got used to the pattern of eating perfect during the week then going nuts on the weekend. I kind of made it through, but not perfectly. My BF went out and bought a whole bunch of fruit and made a giant fruit salad, and got some low carb yogurts for me. So I snacked on those two things - I figure it's not part of my diet, but I could be doing much worse so I ate it.

As far as the side effects go - headaches...... I'll have to say no - I think. I've had headaches over the past 3 days, but I always get headaches at that time of the month. Dry mouth is a definite YES. But I don't mind it at all, it makes it much easier to get that gallon of water down when you actually feel thirsty for it. Blood pressure - wouldn't know, I don't monitor it. No constipation problems. No insomnia, which is a freakin miracle because I have insomnia issues anyway. I just take Ambien on the nights I'm wound up and I know I won't sleep. There aren't any reactions between the two drugs. This week so far, I'm more hungry than I was last week - not sure why, but even when I'm not taking anything my body seems to cycle between being extremely hungry all the time, then not that hungry - it usually goes in week increments. Weird.
 
gypsy said:
Oh my god, Peanut Butter is by far my BIGGEST craving, I go nuts with it sometimes! I also crave fruit on the weekends. This past weekend was pretty hard, I was bored, the weather was bad AND I was starving. Oh, and had PMS! Of course I just wanted nothing more than to eat. Some of it is mental though, I find it harder not to cheat on the weekends because I got used to the pattern of eating perfect during the week then going nuts on the weekend. I kind of made it through, but not perfectly. My BF went out and bought a whole bunch of fruit and made a giant fruit salad, and got some low carb yogurts for me. So I snacked on those two things - I figure it's not part of my diet, but I could be doing much worse so I ate it.

As far as the side effects go - headaches...... I'll have to say no - I think. I've had headaches over the past 3 days, but I always get headaches at that time of the month. Dry mouth is a definite YES. But I don't mind it at all, it makes it much easier to get that gallon of water down when you actually feel thirsty for it. Blood pressure - wouldn't know, I don't monitor it. No constipation problems. No insomnia, which is a freakin miracle because I have insomnia issues anyway. I just take Ambien on the nights I'm wound up and I know I won't sleep. There aren't any reactions between the two drugs. This week so far, I'm more hungry than I was last week - not sure why, but even when I'm not taking anything my body seems to cycle between being extremely hungry all the time, then not that hungry - it usually goes in week increments. Weird.


It seems this drug is only making things worse. Switching from one extreme to the next (Not hungry at all - then binging). You can probably do this naturally. Think about your goals when you get a craving. Look at pictures with body types you aspire to have. Better yet look at body types that you DO NOT want to look like. Also try and keep yourself busy, you may be a "bored eater"? Do you do cardio exercise?
 
I certainly don't think it's making things worse, I was saying that when I'm not on anything, I'm more hungry certain times than others, and that just hasn't changed much being on the drug. I've only been on this stuff for 12 days, I think I need more time before I can make a real judgement about it, I'm just posting updates for anyone considering using it. I may not be the best test subject for this drug really, since it works on seritonin - I used to do A LOT of ecstacy, and I'm probably damaged goods. A friend is taking this stuff too, and she's doing great with it, it's killing her appetite completely. But her brain is a clean slate. She needs to lose 50 pounds though - I only need to lose maybe 7 total! Yes - I have the diet thing down to a science for my body - I just formed a habit of eating bad on the weekends. This was always okay for me because I could eat good during the week and binge on the weekends, and maintain a steady 118 pounds. This is the weight that my body seems to just love, it's easy to maintain it. Anything below it - and I have issues. So I'm taking the Merida to try and ease the hunger and get me through the weekend. As you can see from my posts, I'm having mixed results from good to not-so-good. But I'm going to stick with it for a little while.

Cardio - yes, 5 days a week. Lift 4 days a week.
 
I have to say I have been VERY impressed with bupropion (Wellbutrin) for curbing hunger and controlling cravings. I have heard that topiramate is even better, but not tried it yet. I haven't heard a lot of rave reviews for meridia though...not in the real world outside the pharmaceutical marketing hype.
 
Its good to know that there are antidepressants that dont' require that you gain weight too (oh yea, and THAT makes u feel even better about yourself :rolleyes:) but if you don't need an A-D, should u be taking one? (Just in case it becomes a diet-aid...).

Here's a link for some info on tipiramate for those of us who couldn't pronounce it (and wondered what it was :))

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a697012.html

One item it notes is don't operate heavy machinery while using, so again, if you don't need it for those things that it is currently prescribed for, should you consider taking it as a diet aid?
 
Personally I think it would be awesome (and very beneficial to my fat loss endeavors!) if they came out w/ a pill to take when you get bored & start fantasizing about eating junk out of boredom! For example, you're sitting around the house around noon on Sunday and its raining and nothing but Billy Graham and ThunderCats repeats on TV. You start getting the urge to get together w/ your best friends, Ben & Jerry, and start pounding some Chunky Monkey. You quick run to the cupboard, pull out this special pill, pop it in your mouth, chug some water to wash it down, and all of a sudden there's a knock on the door... You go to the door, and there's Vel's hunky interior designer there. Hmmmm, what to do with him? ;)

So then you throw him after u use him. And there's another knock on the door. Who could that be? Dayum! Look! It's that Sparky guy from "In a Fix"! Hot DAMN! Kewl!

So you kick him out after u blow Sparky's fuse and he's got nothing left for ya. Then there's a knock on the door. WOW! Its that Andrew Dan-Jumbo guy from that other home decorating show. Man, I get a kick out of that guy's accent! Talk dirty to me baby!

Well, Andrew needs to go recharge his battery. <Boot out the door> Then there's a knock on the door. Holy MOLY! Its that The Shadow guy from EF! Oh my QUAD!

... Hey check the time! Its dinner time & I haven't had an urge to munch on Chunky Monkey or anything else this whole time! All because of this awesome pill!

(Ok I'm babbling now, its waaaaaaaaaaay too late for this.)

Its sort of a kewl thought though. Perhaps I will conduct some more "R&D".
 
Side effects are variable like many drugs (AAS comes to mind). Suffice it to say topiramate is also known as the California drug....it makes you thin and dumb. However precomp dietingmakes me dumb anyway, so it might not be such a big deal. Here's an indepth article from Loki over at Anavtlabs.com:

Topiramate for Weight Loss

When the FDA finally granted Ortho-McNeil Pharmaceuticals the go-ahead to market their new anti-epilepsy ?wonder-drug? topiramate (under the brand name Topamax ®) in 1996, everything seemed golden for the Raritan, New Jersey pharmaceutical giant. After all, what they had on their hands was a wholly singular and truly versatile drug that had passed well-tolerated through numerous clinical trials, and displayed a sterling safety profile. ?Bub was popped, speed boats were bought? hell, life was good over at Ortho-McNeil. But then, as Topamax started to circulate commercially, a curious effect started being reported over and over in connection with treatments that incorporated it. It caused weight loss. Serious weight-loss, weight loss so marked and widespread that several researchers speculated that it might even be the drug?s downfall; at full therapeutic dosages, patients lost weight so fast it was starting to worry them.

Furthermore, even Ortho-McNeil?s own research staff admitted they didn?t really understand how their drug managed to do this. Were its mechanisms anorectic? Directly lipolytic? Strangely enough, nobody seemed to know. But? in looking back at the data of their clinical trials with topiramate? I saw the phenomenon had been there from the very start; subjects who used topiramate consistently for as little as a month noticed statistically significant weight loss. This was not some form of 'wasting' either? we're talking documented, large-scale fat loss. It seems as if the FDA had just kind of ?overlooked? this little quixotic facet to topiramate during the approval proceedings. Fast-forward a few years, and the exact weight-loss-inducing mechanisms of topiramate are still inconclusive. However, my own personal research on the compound? combined with a plethora of information from other tests and trials on topiramate (not to mention a fair bit of good ol? fashioned speculation)? is starting to lead me to think that I may have topiramate at least partially ?figured out.? So follow along for a little look at the myriad marvels of this novel and potentially rather nifty ?gray-area? weight-loss aide.

Topiramate, a sulphamate fructopyranose derivative, is a broad-spectrum, highly orally bioavailable anti-epileptic drug (AED) or ?anticonvulsant? that is used to treat partial onset and generalized seizures (1). Its precise chemical designation is 2,3:4,5- bis-O-(1-methylethylidene) -ßß-D-fructopyranose sulfamate, and ?raw? topiramate exists as a white, chyrstalline powder with a slightly bitter, ?Leptigen-beta-?esque? taste [but I jest. Please don?t edit me]. As a drug, topiramate boasts a myriad of uses, many of which? albeit fascinating? I could care less about, as well as several others that are quite intriguing to say the least. It is primarily marketed as an AED drug, and has become extremely popular based on its performance in several head-to-head clinical trials against several of the other prominent AED drugs currently available (1,2). In addition, it is also well-regarded in the medical community for its low incidence of side effects (1,2) Furthermore, topiramate demonstrates a remarkable clinical efficacy when it comes to treating individuals who suffer from post-traumatic stress and/or bipolar disorders (2,3,4,5,6). Finally, topiramate has also been used in some recent preliminary research as an alternate method for treating migraines, alcoholism, substance abuse, and binge eating (1,7,8,9). Yes, that?s right: topiramate treatment seems to have a direct and pronounced effect on the body?s neurochemical ?reward-signaling? system, a process we all know has far-reaching consequences when it comes to regulating our eating, activity, and behavioral patterns (10). ?Houston, we may have a good drug here....?

So how exactly does topiramate work? Actually, it exerts its pharmacological effects through a number of mechanisms [author?s note: there are at least five, although I?m only going to address the three I feel are relevant given the scope of this article] (1,2,11). Unlike other AED drugs, topiramate does not raise an individual?s neuro-seizure threshold, but rather works directly in the brain to block its ability to spread (12). One of its primary mechanisms for achieving this is through its potent potentiation of y-aminobutyric acid (GABA) neuroinhibition (1,13). It should be noted that topiramate does not inhibit synaptosomal GABA uptake or interact directly with gamma-aminobutyrate acid-A (GABA-A), nor is it antagonistic towards any other neurotransmitter receptor binding sites. Instead, it increases the frequency at which GABA is able to activate the ?A? receptors (14).

If you couple this with the findings of one study on topiramate which found that a single dose was able to acutely increase cerebral GABA concentrations by 70% for several hours in healthy human subjects, it?s clear that this compound is able to exert a truly powerful effect in this regard (15). It also means that we?ve stumbled upon the first of topiramate?s beneficial effects. Namely, topiramate has the propensity to elevate the release and subsequent circulation of norepinephrine/noradrenaline (through GABA-A activation), a neurotransmitter in the catecholamine family that most are familiar with for its ability to increase lipolysis through inter-signaling with the sympathetic nervous system or SNS (16,17,18).

Another active property of topiramate certainly worth mentioning is its effects on satiety and ?reward signaling.? As a drug, topiramate acts as an antagonist of the kainate/AMPA glutamate receptors (2). More specifically, it antagonizes glutamates? effects at non-N-methyl-D-aspartate (non-NMDA) receptors, inhibiting the ability of glutamate to essentially ?do its job,? particularly in places like the nucleus accumbens, where it acts as a neurotransmitter that is intimately involved in sending the ?ahhhh...that?s-good-shit?-signal, and also the expectant ?ahhhh...that-will-be-good-shit? signal in ?stimulatory? situations (2). Now, coupled with topiramate?s ability to facilitate GABA activity, topiramate likely does an exceedingly good job of ?numbing? the mind to the oft-intoxicating effects of good food, alcohol, and/or some forms of narcotics by inhibiting mesocorticolimbic dopamine (DA) release (19,20,21). So now, not only is topiramate facilitating an increase in lipolysis, it?s also exerting an intense pro-anorectic effect. After all, if both the prospect of eating a twinkie and the actual act of eating it turn out to be one massive, unsatisfying let down, the chances of ?Twinkie acrasia? suddenly become nil-to-none, making that oatmeal, tuna, and greens regimen far easier to stick to.

Stat-Tracker-Score-Update: Topiramate: 2, adipocytes: 0.

Oh, but there?s also one more little interesting, weight-loss-potentiating property that I?m willing to guess topiramate possesses, although I should mention that it is one facet to topiramate supplementation that I would contend does pose a possible health risk in humans. You see, it appears that topiramate treatment is also somehow able to inhibit natural homeostatic thermoregulation of the human body, which is a rather rare effect, and one that certainly warrants further examination. So just how might topiramate accomplish this? Well, one of topiramate?s other pharmacological properties is its ability to inhibit certain isoenzymes of carbonic anhydrase (1,2,22). Another is its ability to actually block certain sodium channels, especially those that are voltage-sensitive (23,24). Together, these two modes of action have actually been demonstrated to induce mild hyperthermia and/or hypohyrdosis, a state where? with the body?s sweat-response impaired? core temperature becomes elevated above normal for a period of time without any internal regulating mechanism to bring it back down (23). If this assessment is accurate, then it?s possible topiramate may exert an effect on body temperature similar to a mild uncoupler or a low dose of T3 by inducing an actual?albeit slight? long-term increase in heart-rate and basal resting energy expenditure (REE; i.e. whole-body thermogenesis). [author?s note: I would care to caution readers though that this is only my initial hypothesis, and I truly feel more work needs to be done in regards to this understanding and accurately evaluating this proposed effect.]

However (and moreover), I would also like to point out that veritable hyperthermia does not appear to be a serious? or even common? result of topiramate use. There are only three documented instances (all occurring in epileptic pediatric patients ages 17-months, 9 years, and 16 years, respectively) of topiramate-induced hyperthermia since the drugs inception, none of which were fatal, and all of which were resolved by the subjects taking a cold bath, probably with bubbles and a rubber ducky (25,26). Upon discontinuation of topiramate, normal sweat function and thermoregulation returned in all three subjects (25,26). Honestly, I almost wish I could say this drug was really dangerous and hardcore, but the simple fact is that anything that?s most potentially dangerous direct side-effect can be mitigated by a friggin? shower just isn?t all that ?riskeé? in my opinion.

So now that I?ve addressed the potential and proposed mechanisms through which topiramate works in the body, I?d like to move on briefly to discuss the actual documented effects of the drug on body composition, because, ?they ain?t too shabby.? According to Ortho-McNeil?s own data on the efficacy of topiramate at promoting weight loss, the company estimates that approximately 90% of all users have experienced some form of weight loss when administered the drug for a given period of time, with higher doses generally being associated with greater weight loss (24).

Recently, these predictions have been validated by several clinical studies (13,27,28,29). In one study, a group of adults who suffered from onset-seizures had their weight, BMI, and bodyfat percentage tracked over one year of topiramate treatment while no changes were implemented in regards to diet or exercise. In non-obese subjects, one year of topiramate treatment resulted in a 7.3% mean reduction in bodyweight. In obese subjects, the weight loss was even more pronounced; mean bodyweight reduction in that group was 11%. In both cases, the research team was clear to note that ?weight loss was primarily caused by a reduction in body-fat mass? (27). Furthermore, even after a full year, not a single subject displayed any sign of weight rebound, every one having settled in at their new, leaner ?setpoint.?

A second, smaller study, this time conducted with bipolar patients, also makes a strong case for topiramate?s ability to induce weight loss without any set changes in diet or activity levels (13). For example, one specific female in the trial, designated ?Mrs. A,? entered the trial at a bodyweight that the researchers classified ?detrimentally obese.? For the next three months, Mrs. A received 375mg (125mg in the morning and a further 150mg in the evening) of topiramate a day. There were no changes made to her existing medication regimen, nor was she asked to make any changes in regards to her food intake or lifestyle choices. After one month, and then again at three months of treatment, her weight was checked and evaluated. The changes, needless to say, were profound. With topiramate therapy, Mrs. A lost forty-two pounds in the first month of treatment alone, and then went on to lose another fourteen over the course of the next two months, ultimately decreasing her total body mass by nearly 25%. Even the study?s lone, non-obese subject (another female who was actually fairly lean to begin with), also experienced noticeable weight-loss with topiramate. During her three months on topiramate, she managed to lose eighteen pounds, once again, with no changes in diet or activity level (13).

In sum, what we have with topiramate is a drug that works through several different pathways to promote weight loss and inhibit weight gain. It?s ability to regulate neurotransmitter release and function, inhibit food cravings and improve self-control through the negation of ?fed state? related reward mechanisms, as well as its ability to also potentially elevate REE makes it a drug with serious potential for the resourceful and experimental dieter. From the studies testing for weight loss with topiramate, the ?ideal? weight-loss dose appears to be roughly 400mg/day, with returns diminishing noticeably in this regard at higher doses. And, while I myself have obtained a quantity of topiramate, I have as of yet been unable to test it for myself, nor am I aware of any other individual in the bodybuilding community who has experimented with it to date. Thus, I will leave it up to you the reader to decide if you feel topiramate might be a beneficial and/or worthwhile investment in lieu of your current goals and priorities for phenotype-augmentation.

Lastly, I would like to point out that? as topiramate is a categorically unique drug that has only recently emerged on the pharmaceutical landscape? there is simply no information about the long term side-effects of its use. Also, while side-effects with short-term topiramate usage (i.e. one year or less) are rare (and also dose-dependent with a high correlation to heavy, long-term dosage schemes), topiramate has been associated with sensations of drowsiness, nervousness, tingling or numbness in various parts of the body, and in rare cases exerts a detrimental effect on motor skills and cognitive faculties (1,2). Also, the formation of kidney stones has been observed in roughly 1% of regular topiramate users (1,2). There is no known toxicity level for topiramate, although dosages as high as 1.6g/day have been tolerated in adult human studies without adverse effect (28).

In general, there has been little research conducted on topiramate and its possible interactions with other medications, although no egregious incidents of detrimental interactions have been reported thus far (25,30). For obvious reasons, it would probably be a poor idea to stack or use topiramate concomitantly with any other carbonic anyhydrase inhibitors, as the risk of developing either hyperthermia, nephrolithiasis, or hyperhidrosis would likely be quite high. If you are using oral contraceptive drugs, you should also avoid topiramate, as it has been found to decrease their efficacy markedly (1,2,25). Also, I do not at all advocate the use of topiramate in conjunction with alcohol or CNS depressant drugs, as the use of both simultaneously could potentially lead to the onset of depression, pronounced cognitive impairment, or adverse neuropsychiatric episodes.
 
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