Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

You are right with regards to the weight. 1x5 = 1x3 and 5x5 = 3x3 for the deload week.

In reference to diet (not to just you - this is a major trend), if you want to get bigger you have to consume a caloric excess. If an excess is present and you don't gain any muscle, you will get fatter - such is the nature of caloric excess. If you aren't getting fatter or adding muscle, you aren't eating enough because there is no excess present. Also, if you start out with a small margin of excess and gain a few pounds, it might take up your entire excess budget - thus, your excess must be constantly increased along with your progress to keep a consistent excess.

The diet stuff is so critical and I really think a lot of people are blowing it here. It doesn't need to be ultra clean food and supplements to get big and strong. A double whopper a day split into 2 meals will do it. It doesn't matter. If your goal is to get big you absolutely must consume an excess of calories - if you want to eat ultra clean so be it, high quality is not required (within reason) but excess calories are. A lot of people (and it's always the already lean ones so no excess is present in their base diet) also seem to be eating at the margin with what they think is an excess - well they are getting stronger but not bigger or fatter in any way. What does that tell me, they aren't eating enough and their estimate of base caloric requirements is off and therefore their excess is off. Very simple stuff, Excess = weight gain (fat or muscle but should be mostly muscle). If there is no weight gain than no excess is present. Just deductive logic.

 

[guldukat]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

*snip*

I need to spread some karma around. I know you're too modest to think as much, but MC, you're a resource, man--no reason to even try and argue about it!

 

[Topside]

This doesn't relate to the 5x5 but i'd like madcow's opinion or thoughts so i figured i'd post it here. I have a little set up in my basement (squat rack, adjustable bench, 300lbs weight set, some dbs etc.) Basically the weights in my basement feel heavier than the weights in the gym. I can max out at 225 at the gym but in my basement i can only hit 185. Weight is weight same plates and everything. Do you think the atmosphere and say change of scenary have anything to do with that loss of strength. Last time i was at the gym before i started the 5x5 i did 190 for 5 and it was pretty tough, at the 3x3 im at 155 (basement) and its not tough but next week at 165 for 3 will start to get tough. It's kinda weird and im used to my basement now so i dunno...just wondering.

 

[Slyder190]

How would you recomend the warm-up pattern go for the 1x3 sets? For the 1x5 sets, I started 100lbs under my final set weight and increased 25lbs on each set (and the were a few warm up set done even prior to the first ramping warm-up set). Obviously I will need more tyhan 2 ramping wamr ups for the heavy final sets for 1x3, but I'm not sure how the two ramping warm ups that are called for should be set up. Thanks.

 

[Madcow2]

This doesn't relate to the 5x5 but i'd like madcow's opinion or thoughts so i figured i'd post it here. I have a little set up in my basement (squat rack, adjustable bench, 300lbs weight set, some dbs etc.) Basically the weights in my basement feel heavier than the weights in the gym. I can max out at 225 at the gym but in my basement i can only hit 185. Weight is weight same plates and everything. Do you think the atmosphere and say change of scenary have anything to do with that loss of strength. Last time i was at the gym before i started the 5x5 i did 190 for 5 and it was pretty tough, at the 3x3 im at 155 (basement) and its not tough but next week at 165 for 3 will start to get tough. It's kinda weird and im used to my basement now so i dunno...just wondering.

Maybe different bench or something affecting your leverages and positioning. Not really sure. Maybe you lost some strength somewhere. Setting can play a role but that's pretty large.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

How would you recomend the warm-up pattern go for the 1x3 sets? For the 1x5 sets, I started 100lbs under my final set weight and increased 25lbs on each set (and the were a few warm up set done even prior to the first ramping warm-up set). Obviously I will need more tyhan 2 ramping wamr ups for the heavy final sets for 1x3, but I'm not sure how the two ramping warm ups that are called for should be set up. Thanks.

So one of the reasons the pyramid is here is that it provides you some discretion in how you get your volume. Sort of a knob you can turn depending on how well you are tolerating the program. Absolute pounds are hard to figure, 100lbs and increments of 25lbs may sound great but if your target weight is 135lbs, some of that is largely worthless so percentages are a better way to figure them.

For the 1x3 the volume isn't as critical, if you get 3 solid sets pyramided then great, if you are really taxed just get up to target warming up and using singles and doubles as needed. The volume is more key in the 1x5 but for 1x3 you just keep pushing the target up and don't worry about the volume so much.

 

[Topside]

I did lose strenght from losing weight, but when i hit 190 for 5 i had already lost the weight. Never thought about the actual bench. I guess it's just a combination of everything. I really dont mind it's all relative anyway, wherever you start you start and the weights are moving up so its all good.

 

[psilo]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey - Just wanted to stop in and say I'm giving this program a test run. I'm just starting the deloading week today after a pretty tough volume phase. I've made some pretty good strength gains already and bodyweight is about the same. I expect I'll be adding some noticeable mass coming in the next few weeks coming out of the volume phase.

Squatted 275 atf for 5 last friday, which is a pretty large pr. I'm a little run down from all the volume but I feel like I have a lot of new strength left in the tank for the intensity phase. I wouldn't be suprised if I can squat 315 for 3 by the end of the cycle, and this is from someone who hasn't really ever taken squatting seriously. I'm really liking the program, Wednesday workouts are tough, but all my lifts seem to be improving.

In summary: Starting the deloading phase, already have a bunch of PRs under my belt.

6', 190 lbs.
Bench: 225x5*
Squat: 275x5*
Dead: 335x5*
Row: 185x5*
Pullups: +45x5*

*PR

 

[Madcow2]

Looks like good progress in the lifts. Your strength should really shoot up in the next phase, especially with a hard loading period. After the next 2 weeks you'll be amazed how much stronger you are.

Since you haven't gained weight (not that there is anything too wrong but I want to catch it now if this applies):
Without a solid margin of caloric excess in your diet, there is no way to gain much weight especially if you are already fairly lean. I don't know if this is or is not the case but it's a big enough trend that I'll probably write something on it for the table of contents and it has long been my policy to avoid diet related stuff because I consider it fairly easy and basic but it really seems to be causing people some stumbling blocks. Their lifts shoot up accross the board but by the time they figure this out it's too late to do anything about it.

This is basically my thoughts: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4856947&postcount=451

 

[psilo]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

To be honest, I'm not really trying to get that much bigger. I'm pretty lean at the moment, eating right around maintenance as a conscious decision. At my current height and weight, standard clothes still fit me well and I'm not really looking to change that. I much prefer the fitness model look over the bodybuilder look (no offense to you beasts out there).

I appreciate the heads up, and may think about upping the calories over the remainder of my cycle. I wouldn't mind getting up to around 195 and then doing a brief cutting phase to get really lean at 190.