Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Madcow2]

In general, unless you have just changed your training significantly or train with low frequency, high volume, to failure (not recomended as that means you are not properly conditioned) you don't generally get sore. At least not to any major degree. Once well conditioned and training with acceptable frequency, most people are hardly ever sore. More than a few have gone through the 5x5 program only sore a bit in the first week.

So anyway, you should train through it unless you are so sore that there is a chance of injury or you are just unable to perform. In the case of being unable to train, do something for recovery and get some blood in those muscles to flush them out. If you skip a workout you are messing with the loading protocol which is the stimulus. When you don't apply as much load as planned you create a dip or wind up offsetting your entire program.

If you care to read here are some opinions etc..., to my knowledge no one has specifically nailed down DOMS, but regardless it's widely accepted that there is no correlation to progression of either growth or strength and that proper conditioning makes minimizes it to a very large extent.
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=23534
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=8507

 

[Extra_Strong]

ok.. thanks and i will read those links. thanks MCow

 

[Madcow2]

Those links are more about what might be causeing DOMS. Generally those that know enough to venture opinions on it are going to assume it's a known that there is no real significance. I'd only maybe read the FI one as I don't even think I made it all the way through the one at meso before I got bored. They're more intellecual curriosity than anything else so don't feel compelled to waste your time - I know I didn't.

 

[Topside]

Thinking about this for an overall training cycle:

Load: 4 weeks
Deload: 1 week
Intensity: 4 weeks
Deload: 1 week
Week point training: 1 week

Possible week off then: (may not take a week off depending on feel)

Load: 2 weeks
Deload: 1 week
Intensity: 2 weeks
Deload: 1 week
Week point training: 1 week

Say for the week point training since i do enjoy the pump you get in your arms from direct arm work, throw some of that in week point training, or for that one week just train arms for kicks. How many days a week to train and what type of volume. I understand that week point training is say if ur tris are ur week point for bench to train them, but if i just wanted to hit my arms that week for fun what are your suggestions for that. That schedule above is pretty much how i interpreted the beyond 5x5 link. Thanx.

 

[Madcow2]

That link is just an example. It really depends on what you are trying to do and accomplish. Don't use that week scheme just out of default as it has to match what it is you will be doing. I believe it might have been DFHT or some such when I wrote it, wasn't really paying attention just illustrating organization.

You can work on your weak points any time and work them into the loading/deloading protocol - you just have to setup a relevant program. This could be 3 weeks of loading 1 deload or whatever. 1 week of light training can work but to be honest 1 week doesn't really get you that much if you neglected something before and go back to neglecting it again.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Extra_Strong]

just got my book in THE STRONGES SHALL SURVIVE by BILL STARR
Happy me.. seems to be just what i wanted.. so see you guys till i am finished reading.....

 

[Topside]

I really didn't mean like train a weak point but rather just a week of training basically whatever you want, and since there is no real direct arm work to hit arms or some direct trap work or whatever it is say you feel like doing for that week, then depending on feel take a week off or not and then get back into the loading.

Im about to start week 6, the first week of the intensity phase and i like to have a game plan for when that last week fo the intensity phase is over. I'll probably do another deload after depending on how i feel because i read that it's possible to be "loaded" again by the end of 3x3. After that i dont know whether just to start up the program again or play with the cycling a little, like do a 3 week load and 1 week deload or 2 to 1 or whatever. My goal is to put on size more than strength. I really have to get my diet in check to optimize that. Real life situations makes it hard to do that sometimes especially with work and school. Even with my diet not being so great i've put on 7 lbs in 5 weeks. Actually lean lbs too my bf is exactly the same as when i started the program.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I really didn't mean like train a weak point but rather just a week of training basically whatever you want, and since there is no real direct arm work to hit arms or some direct trap work or whatever it is say you feel like doing for that week, then depending on feel take a week off or not and then get back into the loading.

Im about to start week 6, the first week of the intensity phase and i like to have a game plan for when that last week fo the intensity phase is over. I'll probably do another deload after depending on how i feel because i read that it's possible to be "loaded" again by the end of 3x3. After that i dont know whether just to start up the program again or play with the cycling a little, like do a 3 week load and 1 week deload or 2 to 1 or whatever. My goal is to put on size more than strength. I really have to get my diet in check to optimize that. Real life situations makes it hard to do that sometimes especially with work and school. Even with my diet not being so great i've put on 7 lbs in 5 weeks. Actually lean lbs too my bf is exactly the same as when i started the program.

I understand now. Good progress too BTW - I'd appreciate it if you'd make a comprehensive post at the end just providing starting/ending weight, strength base and increase, thoughts etc... whatever you want but you are one of the few monitoring BF levels so that's something unique and helpful. I fully understand the real life thing encroaching on training, I have more commitments than I can shake a stick at.

I think it's probably valuable for most people to lay out 4-6 months worth of hypothetical training (if you compete, you determine your schedule based on the event or season calendar and usually it's in blocks of around a year). Even if you change it significantly, it lays a framework for you. As far as "canned" programs, you have the Starr 5x5, Dual Factor Hypertrophy in the last page or two, HST is on option too, Dual Factor Strength can be found on meso, something Westside can be worked in, and you can also design something of your own. If you have liked the results and want to run another 5x5 cycle back to back you will certainly have very accurate records and a clear understanding of how you tolerated the previous loading scheme - maybe you want to start your ramps higher or lower - maybe ramp longer, whatever.

As far as the 3x3 phase reloading, it's mainly a concern if you use the 3x per week protocol. If doing the 3x per week intensity/deload, plan to take a week (train light no more than 2x) and then just see how you feel. As far as working sets the volume is not much higher than the 2x per week (you aren't counting anything but the top set of the 1x3 pyramids) but it can push some people a bit too much, just see how it goes.

 

[Topside]

I'll absolutely throw in a conclusion post once i finish the program. If i put on another 7lbs of lbm i'd be extremely happy. I started at 142 now im at 149, i got really sick for quite a few months. I was at 168 and my bf actually has not changed i've been 10% since i was 168 about 8 months ago. School just ended so i'll have more time to concentrate on my diet, trying to get it all back and then some. Really enjoying the program though thus far very simple and its very easy to monitor progress bc there are not a lot of variables to focus on. I'll probably just run this program again due to the fact that this is my first time training this way and as much progress as i am making its still a learning experience kinda feeling things out so the second time around i can make as close to perfect as possible.

 

[Slyder190]

Okay Madcow, I just finished up week 6 of the 5x5 volume phase ( first time around so i started light and worked may way up to get a feel for things and see where I was at). Now next week in the deloading phase i keep all my weights the same for the 1x3 lifts and the 3x3 kifts correct? I use the same weights I eneded with on the 1x5 and 5x5 lifts?

By the way, the program is working great where strength is concerned. I haven't been this excited about working out in a REAL LONG time. Been hittin it all natural too. I'll see how it goes during the next 5 weeks. I'm sure strength will continue to go up, just gotta see if the weight comes on. I keep it on the lean side, so if the weight doen't come on, I'll check my diet and take it from there.