Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below The volume is part of the stimulus and it works fairly well for pushing the weights up. I would really caution you to just run it as is the first time through - there are a lot of ways to do this program but I've found that people unfamiliar with this type of training screw it up and as they are isolated over the internet. It's not like gains in your 3x3 and 1x3 won't push your 1RM up substantially. What one would do would be to gradually work into the lower rep ranges reducing total volume (weight moves up, reps go down - lower volume). If you wanted to peak your 1RM, you'd go from triples to doubles to a period of heavy singles with low frequency/volume and plenty of rest at which point you'd perform your "records" or do a PL meet or whatever. For straight PL though there are other changes that would be made as this is more general conditioning rather than PL specific.lavi said:
Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!
- Thread starter BionicBC
- Start date
ghettostudmuffin
New member
You don't need an excel spreadsheet for this program. It's really quite simple once get the jist of it.
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
It might not be a horrible idea but the problem is that it locks in specific %'s and given the wide variability in an individual's ability to tolerate loading or higher/lower ramping (starting weights) it ends up doing more harm than good as people don't adjust and simply lift at a given %. The more one runs a program like this the better they are able to dial-in their training. For instance, over the first 4 weeks two 350x5x5 record squatters, one might be able to start at 315 while another might have to start much lighter at 275 (randomly throwing numbers). To make the spreadsheet work for everyone you wind up starting everyone low where there are plenty of guys who might benefit from beginning their loading period with heavier weights. The same for the record week - there are some lifters at the extreme that can tolerate close to 3 weeks of record loading - while most others sit around the 10 day mark when loading heavily.
It might not be a horrible idea but the problem is that it locks in specific %'s and given the wide variability in an individual's ability to tolerate loading or higher/lower ramping (starting weights) it ends up doing more harm than good as people don't adjust and simply lift at a given %. The more one runs a program like this the better they are able to dial-in their training. For instance, over the first 4 weeks two 350x5x5 record squatters, one might be able to start at 315 while another might have to start much lighter at 275 (randomly throwing numbers). To make the spreadsheet work for everyone you wind up starting everyone low where there are plenty of guys who might benefit from beginning their loading period with heavier weights. The same for the record week - there are some lifters at the extreme that can tolerate close to 3 weeks of record loading - while most others sit around the 10 day mark when loading heavily.
Last edited:
JKurz1
Banned
gotcha......just thought it would be helpful to track your weights/reps.........my brother did the day 1 yesterday......given his maxes, he said it was way too easy...I guess cause his max bench is 225 for 5 and he was starting at 135 for 5.......I hope he keeps it up though..........He did:
SQUATS -
165 X 5 X 5
135X5, 145X5, 150X5, 160X5, 165 X5 BENCH
B.ROWS SAME AS SQUAT.........
for some reason he then did 3 sets of leg press, 2 leg ext and 2 ham curls...........
SQUATS -
165 X 5 X 5
135X5, 145X5, 150X5, 160X5, 165 X5 BENCH
B.ROWS SAME AS SQUAT.........
for some reason he then did 3 sets of leg press, 2 leg ext and 2 ham curls...........
FYI - on the last page you provided 205x5 as the Max Bench not 225 - that's a 10% difference and very material. Even under 205 he was starting in the 160's for 5x5 and around 180 for 1x5 (the top set is all that matters in the pyramid, you are just doing the other sets to get volume in). His Barbell rows were supposed to end with a top set of 155 (10lbs less than the squat. As for the leg press, ext, curls - I don't even know what to say.
At some point you basically have to say - is all this trouble worth it? I mean, there are 12 pages now. This thread is a pretty solid resource for training. The first page has info all over it and not 1 but 3 separate examples of this program written by 3 different people. In the next 11 pages I've tried to completely answer every concievable question in detail. If this is something you or your brother are interested in, you have to be willing to make a commitment to read the thing and understand it. This is what everyone else has done and it's not rocket science - just basically sitting down, trying to understand it, and writing it out for yourself. Are people going to ask questions? Sure, because they want to be 100% before they start and that's expected. But, looking over the past few pages I'm totally unconvinced that you've taken the time to more than scan it over. I've sat here and answered a lot of questions trying to help you get on track with things that are covered in depth multiple times on page 1.
I don't mean to be a dick but it's kind of frustrating. The whole reason this thread is here and I've taken the time with it is so that people have a resource and a program that absolutely works and works really well. No voodoo or 'instinctive training' or 'know your body' but merely a general protocol that is time tested and proven to stack muscle on people. Once they try it and understand the methodology, I've even provided additional posts to help them adapt it and plan longer training cycles addressing specific needs. However, the effectiveness of this resource is in a large part dependent upon people putting in a modest amount of sincere effort and reading the thing.
Believe me, I'm not getting anything out of this thread or answering questions. It's all here for other people, I'm in the process of some major work and I'm taking time which from a monetary or family standpoint is far far better spent elsewhere and writing this stuff up for people. I don't begrudge the time, it's freely given and I choose to give it because I want to give something back and take what I've learned over the years and make it more accessible to the general population because I think there is a serious overreliance on drugs for gains and that real training information that works has slipped away from the general populace. I do get enjoyment out of seeing people happy and enthusiastic about their progress and excited to be learning about why all this works but I think that's a fairly unselfish trade.
So anyway, I've put a lot of time into answering questions and lately specifically your questions which across the board already have answers mutliple times in this thread. Right now I'm of the opinion that there is a lack of commitment on your part. I don't mind taking my time to help people but I'm not going to expend my effort if they are unwilling to expend some of their own and when I look at your posts over the last few pages I just don't believe you've done that. This has been raw spoon feeding on my part.
Once again, not to be a dick but you need to sit down and ask yourself whether or not this is worth it to you. Are you willing to read the thread, if necessary print it out and take some notes as you go through it. I'd really like to see you make some nice gains, get a lot stronger, be thrilled about the program, and learn enough to put you on a track of progress for the next few years - even share what you've learned with others and get them moving in the right direction. That said, I'm unwilling to carry someone and I feel like that's been going on for the past few pages (and I've hinted at this before). If you don't want to do it, don't do it. If you do, you'll have to want it bad enough to put in some effort. If it's not worth the effort to read, then do what you want to do and be happy. That's the whole point anyway, a lot of people are made happy by progressing, learning, and taking control of their own destiny with regards to lifting and training. Maybe this does it for you maybe it doesn't but I'm unwilling to spend my time (which I happen to value fairly highly) if you aren't willing to expend yours.
At some point you basically have to say - is all this trouble worth it? I mean, there are 12 pages now. This thread is a pretty solid resource for training. The first page has info all over it and not 1 but 3 separate examples of this program written by 3 different people. In the next 11 pages I've tried to completely answer every concievable question in detail. If this is something you or your brother are interested in, you have to be willing to make a commitment to read the thing and understand it. This is what everyone else has done and it's not rocket science - just basically sitting down, trying to understand it, and writing it out for yourself. Are people going to ask questions? Sure, because they want to be 100% before they start and that's expected. But, looking over the past few pages I'm totally unconvinced that you've taken the time to more than scan it over. I've sat here and answered a lot of questions trying to help you get on track with things that are covered in depth multiple times on page 1.
I don't mean to be a dick but it's kind of frustrating. The whole reason this thread is here and I've taken the time with it is so that people have a resource and a program that absolutely works and works really well. No voodoo or 'instinctive training' or 'know your body' but merely a general protocol that is time tested and proven to stack muscle on people. Once they try it and understand the methodology, I've even provided additional posts to help them adapt it and plan longer training cycles addressing specific needs. However, the effectiveness of this resource is in a large part dependent upon people putting in a modest amount of sincere effort and reading the thing.
Believe me, I'm not getting anything out of this thread or answering questions. It's all here for other people, I'm in the process of some major work and I'm taking time which from a monetary or family standpoint is far far better spent elsewhere and writing this stuff up for people. I don't begrudge the time, it's freely given and I choose to give it because I want to give something back and take what I've learned over the years and make it more accessible to the general population because I think there is a serious overreliance on drugs for gains and that real training information that works has slipped away from the general populace. I do get enjoyment out of seeing people happy and enthusiastic about their progress and excited to be learning about why all this works but I think that's a fairly unselfish trade.
So anyway, I've put a lot of time into answering questions and lately specifically your questions which across the board already have answers mutliple times in this thread. Right now I'm of the opinion that there is a lack of commitment on your part. I don't mind taking my time to help people but I'm not going to expend my effort if they are unwilling to expend some of their own and when I look at your posts over the last few pages I just don't believe you've done that. This has been raw spoon feeding on my part.
Once again, not to be a dick but you need to sit down and ask yourself whether or not this is worth it to you. Are you willing to read the thread, if necessary print it out and take some notes as you go through it. I'd really like to see you make some nice gains, get a lot stronger, be thrilled about the program, and learn enough to put you on a track of progress for the next few years - even share what you've learned with others and get them moving in the right direction. That said, I'm unwilling to carry someone and I feel like that's been going on for the past few pages (and I've hinted at this before). If you don't want to do it, don't do it. If you do, you'll have to want it bad enough to put in some effort. If it's not worth the effort to read, then do what you want to do and be happy. That's the whole point anyway, a lot of people are made happy by progressing, learning, and taking control of their own destiny with regards to lifting and training. Maybe this does it for you maybe it doesn't but I'm unwilling to spend my time (which I happen to value fairly highly) if you aren't willing to expend yours.
Tom Treutlein
New member
For some reason, I think he's an idiot. 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
well, i'm not sure i'd go that far, but he has serious issues breaking his habits. his OCD may be a big part of that though. he needs to realize that AM cardio regularly and training weights 6x week and only hitting most bodyparts once is not the way to go for the vast majority of people. he complains of no gains, but won't fix what is broken. i think his 'brother' is him lol.
Tom Treutlein said:For some reason, I think he's an idiot.
well, i'm not sure i'd go that far, but he has serious issues breaking his habits. his OCD may be a big part of that though. he needs to realize that AM cardio regularly and training weights 6x week and only hitting most bodyparts once is not the way to go for the vast majority of people. he complains of no gains, but won't fix what is broken. i think his 'brother' is him lol.
wnt2bBeast
New member
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
heres a good list of exercises fr you guys to look at..give the page time to load
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/musclelist.asp?id=60
heres a good list of exercises fr you guys to look at..give the page time to load
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/musclelist.asp?id=60
Similar threads
- Locked
