Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[shinchan]

Hi guys, i read 20 pages of this thread and cant go on anymore. Sorry if these questions have been answered.

1) For straight weight 5x5 madcow recommends using a weight 7.5% less than 1x5 day. Is this true for all the weeks including the submax weeks(ie weeks 1 & 2) or do you use 7.5% less than your 5RM throughout the cycle? Also what's the upper limit for this percentage? Seems like 7.5% lesser is quite tough for me to complete.

2) For hypertrophy, which is a better method? option 1 deload then peak or option 2 pure deload?

BTW all these info i got them from http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm?20079

Thanks madcow2 for all the great information.

 

[shinchan]

Ok ive downloaded the spreadsheet so i answered my own question - that 5x5 should be using 7.5% less weight than 1x5 of that same week. Sorry for my laziness, posting without checking first.

Anyway, another thing came up. When doing 1x5 using only 6% difference in weights in between, would that be too little? I guess i'll be totally fatigued when i reach my heaviest set. Can i cut the ramped weights and do a normal warmup and jump into my one top set instead? Something like this: 100x5, 140x3, 170x2, 190x1, 200x5 (max)
Will i be compromising on the effectiveness of this program?

Thanks again.

 

[blut wump]

That would be a bad plan since you'd be missing out on the volume of work building up to that top set. It's a common error to dismiss the effectiveness of sub-maximal weights. Those build-up sets contribute to your growth and progress by adding significantly to the overall tonnage lifted.

If you feel that you need to conserve energy by dropping reps on your build-up sets in order to have a chance of hitting your top set then it's an indication that your top set is too high for your current level of conditioning. Get the volume in as specified.

A 6% gap could be used by someone with good conditioning and inter-set recovery ability but is too small a gap for many. I think the program calls for 10-15%. Follow the spreadsheet until you've gained some experience with the program. On later runs, you'll have the experience of how your body responds to the program and periodization in general to know how to tailor the workouts to your own specific needs.

By the way, if you're unused to this style of workout, I'd strongly suggest starting with the Intermediate version rather than the dual-factor version. You can switch over if you find that the volume of the Inter version is too little.

 

[Kabeetz]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

By the way, if you're unused to this style of workout, I'd strongly suggest starting with the Intermediate version rather than the dual-factor version. You can switch over if you find that the volume of the Inter version is too little.

Please note that it is HIGHLY unlikely that is the case You WILL grow and strengthen off the intermediate program, and probably fall in love with its logic, simplicity and intuitive design.

 

[shinchan]

Thanks blut wump, i'll do just that. How about my original question?

2) For hypertrophy, which is a better method? option 1 deload then peak or option 2 pure deload?

Any insights for that?

Thanks.

 

[blut wump]

If your intent is to pile back into another volume phase at the earliest opportunity then I'd suggest going for the pure deload. There's really not a lot of difference between the two methods, though, if you only take the Intensity phase out through week 6.

I've even run the program where I did a pure deload, due to time commitments, for two weeks and then dived back as normal into week 7 of the Intensity phase.

You might find it hard to run the pure deload for more than a couple of weeks. Only getting to the gym twice per week can eat into your conditioning.

 

[shinchan]

Do you think i can incoporate short phases of fat loss into this program? Considering the first 2 weeks of submaximal weights as not being able to provide adequate stimulus for growth, can i decrease calories then bump it back up from week 3 onwards?

Thanks.

 

[solarclimax]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Do you think i can incoporate short phases of fat loss into this program? Considering the first 2 weeks of submaximal weights as not being able to provide adequate stimulus for growth, can i decrease calories then bump it back up from week 3 onwards?

Thanks.

How much fat you hoping to lose in 2 weeks ?
If sub maximal weights didn't provide adequate stimulus for growth in the weeks leading up to and past old records then how would you be strong enough to make PR's ?

The more you deplete your calories the more you deplete your gains in the weight room (in theory anyway)

I have had around an 8 week run of doing a 5x5 and did lose a bit of weight whilst making small gains in the lifts. Just hit the squats hard, i was cycling carbs and most the high carb days landed on lifting days and low carb days on none lifting. I don't think i took drastic measures on the calorie depletion.
I was actually eating what i thought was a maintenance diet whilst doing this.

It all depends on wich you want the most, if you want your numbers to go up in the weight room then maybe cutting calories isn't such a good idea. If you want to lose some bodyfat even if it means you might not make as much progress in the lifts then try cutting a bit.

Cutting those calories in the first 2 weeks might be the difference between a Personal record and a failure in weeks to come. And at what cost ? trying to shed 2 pounds of fat ?

 

[Jeebus344]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

5x5 noob question: On the 'advanced' version of the 5x5 (pendlay version), when it says "Mon: Squat, Bench, Rows; Wed: Squats, Deads, Military, Pullups; Fri: Squat, Bench, Rows" does that mean literally every monday is Squat/Bench/Rows, every wednesday is Squat/Deads/Military/Pullups ... etc? Or is it an ABA, BAB, type of plan?

 

[blut wump]

With both the Intermediate and Advanced versions of the Bill Starr/Madcow programs, the MWF workouts are as stated rather than being in any alternating fashion. The idea is of each week having a heavy, medium and light day with regards to workload. Think of deads as being the super-heavy version of rows.

If you're new to these workouts, I strongly urge you to begin with the Intermediate version rather than trying to dive into a dual-factor Advanced scheme.