bench press

[Screwball]

Come on now...

I think you're backtracking HighIntensity. The subject of the argument was "whether or not the Barbell Bench Press was over-rated" NOT "whether or not Dumbbell Presses were as effective as Barbell Bench Presses". It just so happens that I agree with you that Dumbbell Presses are very effective at increasing the shoulder girdle's strength and its' stabilizer muscles. The increased range of motion with dumbbells is also extremely beneficial. However, your statement that the Barbell Bench Press is overated simply is just not true. If the movement is performed correctly, it is the best upper body pressing movement to increase muscular size and strength, period.

On a separate note, I have known many, many personal trainers who didn't know a thing about training. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't a good personal trainer or that you don't know your shit. But, I don't think it wise for you to think that just because you are a personal trainer that you are a credible source of knowledge. All forum members need to be able to defend the knowledge they dispense.

- Screwball

 

[bignate73]

Re: Come on now...

If the movement is performed correctly, it is the best upper body pressing movement to increase muscular size and strength, period.


- Screwball

this statement is absolute opinion.

any exercise that works through half the range of motion of the intended target muscle group cannot be considered THE best. dbell presses on the other hand take the upper arm through its full range of motion if the intention of making a movement specific exercise like the bench press a targeted exercise for pectorals.

the squat happens to work as "the" lower body exercise because it doesnt limit the legs range of motion, however the bench press, though tried and true and time tested, just doesnt yield the same ROM, where unilateral resistances (like dbells) source do.

 

[aurelius]

To discuss this the purpose of the exercise needs to be defined. What´s the purpose of the bench press?

 

[Screwball]

Absolutely Right!

You are absolutely right. It is my opinion and I defended it. In doing so, I exposed the rediculous statement that HighIntensity brought to the table - "Barbell Bench Pressing is over-rated". There is a reason that the Barbell Bench Press is one of the three core lifts attempted in powerlifting. That reason being that it is the single best lift to test upper body pressing strength. I am confident in saying that the barbell bench press and its variations are the staple of the majority of weight trainers for increasing upper body strength and size.

Your statement is incorrect when you say that a barbell bench press that touches the chest is half the range of motion as a dumbbell press. A full range dumbbell press probably adds 2"-4" to the pressing stroke. This hardly equates to half of a full pressing stroke.

It is your opinion that the dumbbell press is a superior movement to the barbell bench press and I strongly disagree. In my opinion, overload is the key to gaining strength and size not an increase in range-of motion.

It may have been the personal trainer portion of the previous post that initiated your response. If so, then please re-read the post because I stated that only a portion of my dealings with personal trainers involved faulty information or poor instruction. However, if this statement did offend you, then perhaps, it does apply.

- Screwball

 

[HighIntensity]

By the way Deadlifts are the best upper body exercise

and we all have the right to an opinion, mine is the bench is overated...we could argue this all day, but i won't

 

[Screwball]

Wrong Again...

The barbell bench press is the best test of overall upper body strength. The barbell back squat is the best overall test of lower body strength. The deadlift is the best test of overall body strength (upper & lower). You are losing credibility. Perhaps, you should obstain from posting about things you obviously know very little about. Specifically, this is directed to HighIntensity and BigNate.

- Screwball

 

[bignate73]

Re: Absolutely Right!

That reason being that it is the single best lift to test upper body pressing strength. I am confident in saying that the barbell bench press and its variations are the staple of the majority of weight trainers for increasing upper body strength and size.no argument there

Your statement is incorrect when you say that a barbell bench press that touches the chest is half the range of motion as a dumbbell press. A full range dumbbell press probably adds 2"-4" to the pressing stroke. This hardly equates to half of a full pressing stroke. the pressing stroke being indicative of the movement of the humerus, i assume? with a standard bench press vs dbell press your "2-4 inches" of hand movement can equate to about 30 degrees of joint angle at the shoulder. how much pectoral contraction could that equate to?

dont direct statements of diminished credibility at me, im well aware of biomechanics.

i find no flaw in your statment about it being a good standardized test of upper body pressing strength but for bodybuilding purposes it can be overrated, thats all im saying.

 

[HighIntensity]

Wrong Again...

dude who the fuck are you....i did not say BEST TEST OF STRENGTH I said DEADS are the best for overall upperbody mass

"By the way Deadlifts are the best upper body exercise"

Get your glasses and read what I write better, don't miss quote me

thank you

 

[Screwball]

How in hell can you think that deadlifts are the best exercise for the upper body? The prime movers in the deadlift are the rear chain (i.e. hams, hips, glutes and lower back). The deadlift in no way, shape or form is the best movement for upper body strength. However, it is a very effective movement for building the back muscles from top to bottom.

HighIntensity, wouldn't you equate the exercise that best tests the strength of the upper body as the exericise that most effectively builds the upper body? And, please show me where I quoted you? I did not quote you on this issue and I don't wear glasses.

BigNate, as long as you bring up bodybuilding, why don't we take a look at previous Mr. Olympias? Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Lee Haney and "Big" Arnold all had massively strong and developed chests. It just so happens that the barbell bench press was a staple for each of these champions. I can't speak for these guys but I'm sure each would not think the barbell bench press an over-rated movement.

That's all I'll say on the matter, as I'm sure it's clear to anyone who reads this thread that your arguements are purely opinion and without substance. Hopefully, someone will find something positive in this thread.

- Screwball

 

[sysopt]

Personal comments about bench press and upper body:

It's a perfectly good exercise for chest, shoulder(front), and tricep development. However (here comes the fun part), many ignorant people believe that it is the only exercise needed for the upper body (not intended toward screwball) hence the reason why people think it's overated (some think it's all you need for the WHOLE body with maybe curls and situps or crunches ). There happens to be more muscle in the your back than in your chest which I why I think either pullups/pulldowns or some sort of row wins in the best upper body exercise category IF THAT WERE THE ONLY UPPER BODY EXERCISE YOU WERE DOING. To an extent, the chest is involved in both of those movements which is also a plus. Ideally, one should be doing a push and a pull for upper body. The bench press has gotten a bad rep around some places to due shoulder problems some have down the road. This is most likely because of muscle imbalances (too much pressing and most importantly not enough pulling).