Alternatives to Clomid??

[makaveli25]

needto why dont you get some actualy proof like some bloodtests.. you guys are telling everyone to use your products and trust in them completely.. i think you have some good products but they should not completely replace proven drugs like clomid and nolva.. it wouldn;t be that hard to have a couple bros get some blood work done.. that way we have solid proof

 

[eddymerckx]

needto, you are a researching madman--k to you :

 

[Primordial Performance]

First of all, we recommend Dermacrine Sustain for PCT - post cycle therapy - over the original Dermacrine. The original turned out to be some powerful stuff, maybe even too powerful for PCT, so that’s why we made the Sustain. (without the DHEA)

We have done our own in-house blood testing. In fact, the most recent tests results we’ve got from the new Sustain Alpha are so incredible that we assume there is probably some contamination in the samples. So, we have to find new people, get new blood tests scheduled, and take another run at it.

The real problem with testing a product’s effectiveness for PCT (besides time & money) is that there are so many variables that it becomes nearly impossible to test for. In fact, you will not find a single placebo controlled, double blind study on recovery of natural Testosterone immediately following a steroid cycle with any PCT protocol. You will find studies of Nolvadex/Clomid being used for fertility, or hCG being used to boost testosterone, or resveratrol increasing steroidogenesis, ect.. but nothing that directly applies to the average bodybuilder.

The bottoms line is this -- the practice of the “tried and true” P-C-T's are methods extrapolated from thousands of studies, and even more so, direct testaments and anecdotal evidence passed down from the generations of steroid users. So let’s be fair when talking about “proven” protocol... because its been under contant improvement for the last 40 years.

You see a very positive response from customers who use the Dermacrine products. When a totally unaffiliated customers say’s “I used Sustain and it was the best PCT I’ve ever had” I think that counts for something, especially when you have a majority of the customers more than satisfied with the product.

-Pp

 

[Nelson Montana]

needto why dont you get some actualy proof like some bloodtests.. you guys are telling everyone to use your products and trust in them completely.. i think you have some good products but they should not completely replace proven drugs like clomid and Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - .. it wouldn;t be that hard to have a couple bros get some blood work done.. that way we have solid proof

Both PP and myself ALWAYS encourage people to get blood tests PC T using the supps. I've done them with my products which was part of the research.

Even though people claim Clomid is "proven" there is actually very little evidence of it being very effective. Improvement usually comes weeks after someone would begin recovering anyway. Do more research. Clomid is a last resort drug with little success.

Lots of guys have come on here saying the UNLEASHED/Derma protocol worked for them. With all the evidence, why the hell would anyone choose a drug with nasty side effects over a health promoting supplement is beyond me . Old habits die hard.

 

[needtogetaas]

Clomid dos work for people. In no way am I saying it don't. Lots of people use clomid alone. Lots of people use clomid with derma/unleashed, and still lots of people use derma,unleashed,postcycle and other products together or by them selfs for pct. We are all lucky we have so many weapons at are disposal. I think we can all be doing better things with out time then fighting over witch one is the best. I did make a bold statement in saying derma is 5000x better then clomid. As ceo said I let my personal experience and customer feed back do the talking on that one. Derma products are great stuff though thats clear. So are some of the other sponsor products here on ef.

 

[needtogetaas]

needto, you are a researching madman--k to you :

I do the best I can. Thanks

 

[Nelson Montana]

Clomid dos work for people. In no way am I saying it don't. Lots of people use clomid alone. Lots of people use clomid with derma/unleashed, and still lots of people use derma,unleashed,postcycle and other products together or by them selfs for PCT - post cycle therapy - . We are all lucky we have so many weapons at are disposal. I think we can all be doing better things with out time then fighting over witch one is the best. I did make a bold statement in saying derma is 5000x better then clomid. As ceo said I let my personal experience and customer feed back do the talking on that one. Derma products are great stuff though thats clear. So are some of the other sponsor products here on ef.

True, there are those who respond favorably to Clomid and using the supps along with it can only help. There are almost two arguments going on here. Supps can, and at times should, be used in conjunction with other drugs -- just in lower dosages. But the topic was an ALTERNATIVE to Clomid. And in that regard I'd say the answer was easy since so many people do without Clomid anyway.

 

[SLAYER69!]

First of all, we recommend Dermacrine Sustain for PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - over the original Dermacrine. The original turned out to be some powerful stuff, maybe even too powerful for PCT, so that’s why we made the Sustain. (without the DHEA)

We have done our own in-house blood testing. In fact, the most recent tests results we’ve got from the new Sustain Alpha are so incredible that we assume there is probably some contamination in the samples. So, we have to find new people, get new blood tests scheduled, and take another run at it.

The real problem with testing a product’s effectiveness for PCT (besides time & money) is that there are so many variables that it becomes nearly impossible to test for. In fact, you will not find a single placebo controlled, double blind study on recovery of natural Testosterone immediately following a steroid cycle with any PCT protocol. You will find studies of Nolvadex/Clomid being used for fertility, or hCG being used to boost testosterone, or resveratrol increasing steroidogenesis, ect.. but nothing that directly applies to the average bodybuilder.

The bottoms line is this -- the practice of the “tried and true” P-C-T's are methods extrapolated from thousands of studies, and even more so, direct testaments and anecdotal evidence passed down from the generations of steroid users. So let’s be fair when talking about “proven” protocol... because its been under contant improvement for the last 40 years.

You see a very positive response from customers who use the Dermacrine products. When a totally unaffiliated customers say’s “I used Sustain and it was the best PCT I’ve ever had” I think that counts for something, especially when you have a majority of the customers more than satisfied with the product.

-Pp

Good info. I also think the old saying "don't knock it till you try it" might ap-ply here. If you've done as many cycles as me, I'm 42 and been doing this for 15 years, you will know when your body reacts to something. Yeah, back in the day we didn't even do PCT, we worked real hard to keep our gains. Now things are easier (It doesn't make us pussys to do things easier I hope). I tried Derma Sustain my last PCT with my HCG and I did recover faster than usual. I would normally use Clomid. I think the Clomid does work, at least for me, but I get shitty sides. I wouldn't just use Sustain by its self for my advanced cycles. but I will include it now with HCG and/or Novla. Hell we take 3 or 4 steroid compounds to get our desired results. Why not add Derma to our PCT if it works for you.

 

[lifthard410]

I was sent here as a troll.

 

[needtogetaas]

True, there are those who respond favorably to Clomid and using the supps along with it can only help. There are almost two arguments going on here. Supps can, and at times should, be used in conjunction with other drugs -- just in lower dosages. But the topic was an ALTERNATIVE to Clomid. And in that regard I'd say the answer was easy since so many people do without Clomid anyway.

Very true. Keeping it on topic I think we did a nice job letting the people know there is a few great ALTERNATIVES to clomid.