AB training? Lower abs B4 upper? With or without weight? How do you do it?

[CobraUTAH]

I've been told before and believe that training abs with weight is how you make them grow, it really just makes sense. I also bought and read a long time ago the Ultimate ABS book. In that book it said to do the lower abs before the uppers. I can't remember the reason but it had to do with the way in which the muscles of the upper and lower abs work together, and by doing them in that order you get the most out of the workout. Anyway my ab routine is as follows, if you have any suggestions or other exercises that work better let me know.

I start with 2 sets of hanging leg raises
I do the first 5 reps with legs straight and then
10 reps with legs bent regular knee-ups

Then I do 2 sets of 20 crunches with a ten pound plate behind
my head plus 10 reps of quarter sit ups with the same ten
pound plate.

Finally I do 2 sets on the ab ball with a ten pound plate.

I'm just getting back into it so I don't have a ton of sets or reps in me.

 

[casualbb]

*Busts out loudspeaker* *SQUEAK!* Ahem. YOU CANNOT TRAIN UPPER OR LOWER ABS! YOU CAN ONLY TRAIN THE ABS AS A UNIT! HOW THEY GROW THEN DEPENDS ON GENETICS!

Thank you, this has been a public service announcement.

 

[bignate73]

*Busts out loudspeaker* *SQUEAK!* Ahem. YOU CANNOT TRAIN UPPER OR LOWER ABS! YOU CAN ONLY TRAIN THE ABS AS A UNIT! HOW THEY GROW THEN DEPENDS ON GENETICS!

Thank you, this has been a public service announcement.

 

[CobraUTAH]

WOW THANKS DICKHEAD! I do know of the fact that most muscle groups work all together or not at all like the chest, bi's etc. I guess until your wonderful enlightenment I didn't know that was the way the abs worked as well. If it is true that you can't work the upper from the lower then why is it that (and I'm now speaking honestly with no sarcasm) when I do just hanging straight legged raises or knee bends that only my lower abs get real sore, and conversly when I do just crunches my uppers are sore the next day but I can't feel anything in my lowers.

 

[casualbb]

Dude, lighten up. It was just a joke.

That really wasn't directed at you either. A least once or twice a month another post comes up about upper vs. lower ab training. There's nothing wrong with it because there's nothing wrong with being uninformed. I'm just hoping that when somebody has an upper-lower ab question, they'll do a search and find one of many threads in which someone says "You can't selectively train different parts of your abs," and they'll have an answer.

why is it that (and I'm now speaking honestly with no sarcasm) when I do just hanging straight legged raises or knee bends that only my lower abs get real sore, and conversly when I do just crunches my uppers are sore the next day but I can't feel anything in my lowers.

Hanging leg raises take your hip flexors (iliopsoas) through a full range of motion while your abs do nothing but stabilize. It is a hip flexor exercise. The insertion point of the hip flexors is very near the lower ab insertion point, so you're probably mistaking hip flexor soreness for ab soreness.

Seriously, I intended no insult and apologize if it came off that way.

-casual

 

[CobraUTAH]

Casual no problem it's cool. I haven't been here that long, and I have never seen a similar topic. As for mistaking hip flexors for lower abs possibly, but I'm not sure. Aren't the hip flexors right on top of your hip bone at the top of your leg? The place that feels sore and that I think are my sore lower abs are directly between my UNIT and my belly button. Do you have a link or an idea of a search that I could do on google to educate myself on this. I do understand that the I can't make my lower abs contract without the uppers contracting, but in the case of abs I feel that certain exercises emphasize the upper portion from the lower. When I do crunches my top two abs right below my sternum start to burn like they're on fire, but in the lower portion of my abs I feel nothing. No insult taken I'm always glad to be educated.

 

[CobraUTAH]

Not trying to sound like an ass but why are there so many different ways to do abs if you can only affect the whole ab area and not parts? Is that just another big myth from the exercising world. Do you do just one exercise for abs like say 4 sets of 10 reps of crunches, and that gets it all or do you do different exercises, like 2 sets of crunches and 2 sets of something else. Looking at it from the abs work altogether or not at all camp you should just be able to do one exercise am I thinking right?

 

[the People's Champ]

as far as core training sequence goes, I heard you should train lower back, obliques, lower abdominals, and then upper abs. biggest muscles to smallest muscles.

for instance:
good mornings
side bends with weight on one side
hanging leg/knee raises
crunches

 

[CobraUTAH]

I'm with you champ, but according to casual if he's correct you shouldn't need to do a seperate thing for lower/upper.

 

[casualbb]

Most ab exercises are some combination of ab and hip flexor work. A crunch in which the lower back stays on the floor is pure abdominals; a situp with an erect spine is completely hip flexors.

The abs are the functional antagonist of the spinal erectors, and the hip flexors are the function antagonist of glutes.

Notice in the first image, the ribcage and hips don't move closer together. The spine doesn't flex at all, it remains completely rigid on the ground. The job of abs is to flex the spine, so they only contract isometrically as a stabilizer.

The second one is the opposite. The hip position is static relative to the spine, while the spine flexes and extends under the influence of the abs.

-casual