3 Months Bulking - Feedback Requested

[JoeMyBro]

It doesn't have to be beef 3 times per day. Meat, flesh of an animal. 1 red, 1 fish, and one chicken. or 2 chicken and 1 fish. Yes, I wouldn't eat 3/4kg of red meat every day either.

ok ill see to this...

If your budget requires, you can buy white meat chicken in a can too. But you should be able to get 1kg of chicken breast for like $5-6 dollars US. Where are you from btw? UK/AUS?

Australia. never seen canned chicken but if I buy a whole large bbq chicken its like $10 AU

Use reduced fat, but not skim milk. More easy calories.

The other version of the brand I like which is soy, has equal fat/protein ratio which is why I choose the fat free version... I'm not really having trouble eating enough yet... if I wanted some extra fat a bit of chocolate is ok to fill in the gap although, it is mostly saturated fat...

Yep, use a slow digesting protein at night bro. It makes a difference.

ok i'm going to order some casein protein either now, hopefully they're open, or tomorrow...

 

[JoeMyBro]

Not sure how long you guys train for in bulking/cutting cycles but I figure it doesn't matter at this point I've already been "bulking" for 3+ months. I'm thinking the best idea for me is to actually start trying to get my BF% lower.

It's risen to the point my face is looking chubby again, my legs are rubbing together, I'm feeling fat and cannot notice any difference in muscle size - as you can see yourself from my before/after photos. If I keep going, especially eating 3500 per day, which is an excess of about 1000 calories for myself, I'm going to gain lots more fat with little or no muscle, just like the previous 3 months. I haven't a clue how I'm going to approach muscle gain but I'm thinking its best to cut down while I figure it out, maybe try for some strength gains whilst cutting...

What do you guys think? Sound like a good plan?? Should I take a chance and keep going (at this rate gaining seemingly nothing but fat) or start cutting down and return to a bulk from a lower BF% which would give me time to make sure I am progressing and lifting properly?

I feel ashamed that this happened... I thought maybe I could get it under control and start gaining muscle, but 3500 is a huge amount of calories, and I fear since something is STILL wrong, I'm not going to end up gaining anything but more fat... now I just need to figure out how many calories to consume for my new cutting phase. I'll start tomorrow, take some pictures, you can see yourself how fat I'm getting and how there's been no muscle size-changes. Either way it's not going to matter since I'm either going to cut now, or cut later... I have a lot of fat to get rid of (once again *cry*). I better get on with it, right? DAMN I am just returning to my old fat ass self, I wonder if you can understand how this makes me feel after having put months of effort into getting rid of fat, I go and gain it all back without any muscle, it's like I'm living some kind of nightmare. Anyway I'm an optimist so I'll just keep trying until I get it right.

Edit:
Also do you think my current adjusted routine is all good? I'll keep doing it as it is?

 

[dabuffguy]

Not sure how long you guys train for in bulking/cutting cycles but I figure it doesn't matter at this point I've already been "bulking" for 3+ months. I'm thinking the best idea for me is to actually start trying to get my BF% lower.

No, it isn't. Lift for size right now bro. Frankly, that is really lacking. Don;t worry about your BF too much.

It's risen to the point my face is looking chubby again, my legs are rubbing together, I'm feeling fat and cannot notice any difference in muscle size - as you can see yourself from my before/after photos.

Your before and afters look almost the same. You are being too self conscious. If you are gaining too much fat, just reduce your carbs a bit.


If I keep going, especially eating 3500 per day, which is an excess of about 1000 calories for myself, I'm going to gain lots more fat with little or no muscle, just like the previous 3 months. I haven't a clue how I'm going to approach muscle gain but I'm thinking its best to cut down while I figure it out, maybe try for some strength gains whilst cutting...

No, if you are 1000 calories over what you need, cut carbs by 100 grams per day. you'll still be over maintenance calories, with less carbs. You'll still gain weight, with less fat.

What do you guys think? Sound like a good plan??

No. I've given you a plan, stick with it.

Should I take a chance and keep going (at this rate gaining seemingly nothing but fat) or start cutting down and return to a bulk from a lower BF% which would give me time to make sure I am progressing and lifting properly?

No, by the time you lose your BF, you will have lost your muscle gains. Once you start bulking again, you'll gain the BF right back. Your pics don't look fat at all BTW.

I feel ashamed that this happened... I thought maybe I could get it under control and start gaining muscle, but 3500 is a huge amount of calories, and I fear since something is STILL wrong, I'm not going to end up gaining anything but more fat... now I just need to figure out how many calories to consume for my new cutting phase. I'll start tomorrow, take some pictures, you can see yourself how fat I'm getting and how there's been no muscle size-changes. Either way it's not going to matter since I'm either going to cut now, or cut later... I have a lot of fat to get rid of (once again *cry*). I better get on with it, right? DAMN I am just returning to my old fat ass self, I wonder if you can understand how this makes me feel after having put months of effort into getting rid of fat, I go and gain it all back without any muscle, it's like I'm living some kind of nightmare. Anyway I'm an optimist so I'll just keep trying until I get it right.

Edit:
Also do you think my current adjusted routine is all good? I'll keep doing it as it is?

Bro, you are being impatient. These things take a LONG time. It doesn't happen overnight. If you are gaining too much BF too fast, reduce carbs a bit. But, you are still going to gain fat if you are trying to gain weight. That's just part of the deal.

You don't weigh much, so cutting will result in you loosing muscle mass, and end up looking like a skeleton as opposed to muscular. Don't do it. Get some mass on you first.

You are getting WAY to worried and overconsciouss and worrisome about everything. Take a deep breathe and don't freak out.

Girls worry about being fat. Men worrying about getting bigger and stronger while accepting the fact that they will gain some fat. You can always get rid of it, but you can't gain substantial amounts and stay lean. It doesn't happen.

Not that I know everything, but I am disappointed you express zero confidence in anything I have told you.

Look at my pictures in my thread. I gained 50 lbs in a year. (Not trying to brag, just giving an example). I went from 9% to 14-15% BF. So freaking what about fat increasing by 6%. I ended up gaining a ton of lean mass and strength too. By the time I hit the weight I want, I'll cut down and look like a beast. Muscle first, rid of the fat later. That's how it goes.

Take a chill pill, get mentally focused, and go for it. Eat big and train hard.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Well I was only considering cutting first, I don't see the difference with cutting now or later... losing fat/muscle now, or losing fat/muscle later... I recognize the fact I haven't given the changed routine enough time but yeah I am very self conscious about the level of fat gain I've got happening here. I'll try reducing carbs on non-workout days that should help, because I still need energy do to the workouts.

dabuffguy, do you use steroids or anything like that? I'm not sure if you are a natural body builder considering this is a steroid forum too?

 

[dabuffguy]

Well I was only considering cutting first, I don't see the difference with cutting now or later... losing fat/muscle now, or losing fat/muscle later... I recognize the fact I haven't given the changed routine enough time but yeah I am very self conscious about the level of fat gain I've got happening here. I'll try reducing carbs on non-workout days that should help, because I still need energy do to the workouts.

dabuffguy, do you use steroids or anything like that? I'm not sure if you are a natural body builder considering this is a steroid forum too?

I don't use illegal drugs of any kind including illegal steroids.

The difference is when you have more muscle mass, it burns more calories automatically. And larger muscles stimulate greater amounts of growth hormone production, which also aid in losing fat. Cutting with more muscle mass will give you the desired reult of looking lean hard and muscular. Cutting before gaining any significant mas resuls in lookin glike the skinnny kid with a super high metabolism. That was me in high school. The tall lurpy kid. Having lesser amounts of muscle mass and cutting is ridiculous and the wrong thing to do.

I'm telling you, if you cut now, you'll look like a concentration camp victim. Go for the mass bro.

Don't get self consciouss about getting "fat". You could gain 5% BF and not look fat. You are being WAY too critical of yourself. Loosen up for real.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Well you might be using "legal steroids" though? lol... I read in your 1 year progress page "Monsterdrol"... I looked it up and seems to be a steroid of a sort. I'm not judging, I'm just trying to compare myself to someone who is a natural bodybuilder so I actually have some realistic results to compare to and proper advice for going at it without steroid use.

This week I gained 1.4 kg... wow that's a ton of fat don't you think? No way half of that is muscle...

 

[dabuffguy]

This week I gained 1.4 kg... wow that's a ton of fat don't you think? No way half of that is muscle...

That's called increased caloric intake. There is more food in your digestive tract and you are probably carrying a little bit more water. You didn't gain 1.4kg of fat. Probably a very small portion of it is muscle (less than 10%).

Every KG on the scale should be a celebration for you no matter wher it comes from.

 

[JoeMyBro]

- You didn't mention what "monsterdrol" is... is this a form of "steroid"? What is it?

- To clarify I weight myself in the morning, once a week, and my stomach is pretty much empty at this time since I sleep maybe 8-10 hours. If I gained about 10% that will be about 0.5 kg of muscle a month, which is like 7 kg a year... that's quite a lot actually... well to be honest I don't know how much to expect really. The thing is, if I gain 7kg muscle, thats 90% of fat probably coming in... obviously its a bit too much, I thought the ratio should be more like 1:1 for fat/muscle gain... or so I've read.

- I am betting next week I will be about 1 kg heavier... I don't think it has anything to do with holding extra water, because for how long can I continue to add additional water weight, and its not likely its food because I check when I wake up. If I check after I've been eating a few meals my weight goes up a few kgs.

- Today I did squats, which once again wiped me out. I actually felt sick once again... I did 70kg x 12, 70kg x 12, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 10 -- between the last two sets I rested heaps though maybe 4-5 minutes. Maybe I still need to adjust to the workload. Do you feel this is a satisfactory improvement? I pushed myself, but I admit I could have gone lower towards the end of the last couple sets and for a couple more reps... if I pushed myself a bit harder I reckon I could have gotten 12 reps for all sets, but I'm not entirely sure considering how I felt. Anyway I'm just glad I didn't get stuck under the weight like last time, maybe that's why I held back but yeah I know I need to NOT hold back and actually PUSH my limits. I'm looking forward to incr. my strength next week.

- The thing I'm unsure about, is the amount of time I rest between the sets (of squats particularly). Because I'm puffing heavily for some weird reason, and start to feel "knocked out" like all my energy is wiped out instantly, I wind up resting for long periods of (as I mentioned above) 4-5 minutes. I rested about 90 seconds between first two sets though because I was counting but yeah maybe I could also focus on increasing intensity by reducing the rest time between sets, whilst maintaining 70kg x 12 reps ?? or should I focus on just lifting maybe 2.5kg heavier next time? Sorry to ask "stupid" questions, but there's something wrong in my workouts or diet and I'm trying to figure it out. I mean, if it takes me 15-20 minutes to do just 4 sets of squats I'm thinking maybe there's too much rest time in there. I don't do the movements quickly - I make sure I move slow and controlled and as low as I can (unless I wimp out lol)... anyway I'm guessing I rest at least 3-4 minutes between each set maybe that's too much... I find this only really happens with squats, other exercises I can get away with maybe 2 minute resting periods max...

I want to thank you for your help and conversation, I just want you to know that I am appreciative of your advice, since I'm someone who obviously needs some education in muscle development. By the way, you look huge in your avatar. I dream to get that big lol... how long has it been for you to get that big?

 

[dabuffguy]

- You didn't mention what "monsterdrol" is... is this a form of "steroid"? What is it?

Yes, it is an OTC anabolic.



- To clarify I weight myself in the morning, once a week, and my stomach is pretty much empty at this time since I sleep maybe 8-10 hours. If I gained about 10% that will be about 0.5 kg of muscle a month, which is like 7 kg a year... that's quite a lot actually... well to be honest I don't know how much to expect really. The thing is, if I gain 7kg muscle, thats 90% of fat probably coming in... obviously its a bit too much, I thought the ratio should be more like 1:1 for fat/muscle gain... or so I've read.

You won't continue to gain much fat after you reach a certain point.

You don't need to expect a certain weight for results. If you do things right, you will see the improvements. You could gain 15kg of weight in a year easily at your size, as long as you eat enough.

However, It isn't unreasonable to expect 1 kg of lean muscle a month for someone who is starting out. The more you gain, the harder it is to keep gaining at the same rate.





- I am betting next week I will be about 1 kg heavier... I don't think it has anything to do with holding extra water, because for how long can I continue to add additional water weight, and its not likely its food because I check when I wake up. If I check after I've been eating a few meals my weight goes up a few kgs.

- Today I did squats, which once again wiped me out. I actually felt sick once again... I did 70kg x 12, 70kg x 12, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 10 -- between the last two sets I rested heaps though maybe 4-5 minutes.

Yes, much better. If you felt sick, that's okay. It's not sickness. It's called being drained of energy. You may have even got light headed. It's normal if you are working hard on legs. Make sure you pound down a nice shake and a solid meal after lifting.





Maybe I still need to adjust to the workload. Do you feel this is a satisfactory improvement?

Yes, you did good bro. Next week, leave the weight the same, but you need to do more reps as your increase of workload. Shoot for 14-15 reps next time. Once you hit 15 reps/set (all sets), then let's up the weight to 75kg, or whatever the interval is that is close to that, and we will increase your weights and workloads like that for a while.

I recall last week you did 80kg, and your first set you got 10 reps. You should have been able to push it harder and reach 15 reps for atleast your first set tody @ 70kg. No big worry, you are getting the hang of it. As long as we steadily increase either reps or weight from here, we are on the right track.




I pushed myself, but I admit I could have gone lower towards the end of the last couple sets and for a couple more reps... if I pushed myself a bit harder I reckon I could have gotten 12 reps for all sets, but I'm not entirely sure considering how I felt. Anyway I'm just glad I didn't get stuck under the weight like last time, maybe that's why I held back but yeah I know I need to NOT hold back and actually PUSH my limits. I'm looking forward to incr. my strength next week.

Yep, you need to push hard. Make sure you are going to parallel on every rep. Like I said above, we'll leave the weight the same, but shoot for more reps, then we'll increase the weight the following week.




- The thing I'm unsure about, is the amount of time I rest between the sets (of squats particularly). Because I'm puffing heavily for some weird reason, and start to feel "knocked out" like all my energy is wiped out instantly, I wind up resting for long periods of (as I mentioned above) 4-5 minutes.


Hehehehehe, squats do that to you. I usually take 3-4 minutes on squats between sets. To each his own here. It just cant be way too long. 5 minutes is a bit long.




I rested about 90 seconds between first two sets though because I was counting but yeah maybe I could also focus on increasing intensity by reducing the rest time between sets, whilst maintaining 70kg x 12 reps ??

Reducing rest between sets is one way to increase intensity. But don't rush yourself. Be mentally ready for each set.





or should I focus on just lifting maybe 2.5kg heavier next time?

I think we cleared that up.





Sorry to ask "stupid" questions, but there's something wrong in my workouts or diet and I'm trying to figure it out. I mean, if it takes me 15-20 minutes to do just 4 sets of squats I'm thinking maybe there's too much rest time in there.

Maybe a little bit. 15 minutes for squats sounds fine. Not a big problem. I'll spend 30 minutes doing squats if I am doing 5 or 6 sets for 15+ reps (going ALL the way down).





I don't do the movements quickly - I make sure I move slow and controlled and as low as I can (unless I wimp out lol)...


Control is good, but you don't need to move too slowly. A smooth motion up and down.




anyway I'm guessing I rest at least 3-4 minutes between each set maybe that's too much... I find this only really happens with squats, other exercises I can get away with maybe 2 minute resting periods max...

I want to thank you for your help and conversation, I just want you to know that I am appreciative of your advice, since I'm someone who obviously needs some education in muscle development.


No problem bro. That's what I'm here for. I'm certainly not the know-it-all guy, but I can guide you as far as I have learned from experience, and from advice from lots of good bros here.




By the way, you look huge in your avatar. I dream to get that big lol... how long has it been for you to get that big?


Novemeber of 2007 I was 175 lbs @ about 9% BF. I am 219 @ about 10% right now at 6ft 2 inches. I have been as much as 228 (14% BF), but I hurt my back squatting and lost a lot of lower body mass. I should be 223-225lbs at my current BF level. Now that I can do deadlifts again (no more squats for me ) I'll gain my lower body mass back quickly. I'll be up to 235 by the end of the year hopefully under 12% BF. If not under 12%, I'll be closer to 240lbs.

^^^

 

[JoeMyBro]

Thanks again man. I'll see how things go for a while and report back.