Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Died Saturday of enlarged heart. Had been abusing steroids for 2 yrs. Was about 5'6" at 200lbs and pretty ripped. My feeling is that this kid lived in the fast lane and abused alot of things. Also, I think this was probably a pre exisiting condition. Obviously the juice didnt help it and people are going to automatically point to steroids. I know he abused 17aa orals alot...Any way, the father wants the police to pursue the issue. wants to know where he got it from. This is just another good reason why you only help yourself out and never admit to anyone that you juice. You never want your name popping up somewhere.
21yr old from my gym...DEAD!
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THE BOUNCER
New member
ya gotta feel for his family.
21 is just to young.
21 is just to young.blingbling211
New member
i feel ya bouncer.. i'm fixin to turn 22 and i can't imagine goin out right now.. and i'm sure steroids will get another black eye in this instance, but when abused, just like ANYTHING else, it can be fatal.. sane steroid use with consistent doctor visits is the responsible thing we should all do.. thoughts are definately with the family, sad story
Greek Freak
New member
Yea, 200 lbs isnt even a monster...there were prob some recreational drugs involved too or a prexisting condition. Even so at 21 you havent even lived 1/3 of your life. I read on T-Mag a couple months ago about a top NPC new england bodybuilder who died at 23..sad to see them go so young.
You definitely can never admit anything, Some disgruntalled bitch that managed my old gym got fired and went to the police.
Names got dropped of people that didn't even sell. Now everyones paranoid.
They arested the owner and a few others. Myself and a shitload of other left the gym but It's still in the back of my mind.
Names got dropped of people that didn't even sell. Now everyones paranoid.
They arested the owner and a few others. Myself and a shitload of other left the gym but It's still in the back of my mind.
PatBateman
New member
geez, that's awful. posts like these make me question even if it is worth it, I mean I use safe, human grade drugs approved only for human use and in moderate doses, but is that even enough.
I mean I wonder if these guys were even doing "alternative stuff" besides the gear, ie synthol, rec. drugs, etc. Maybe it was just too much gear, which if true, is very scary.
I am 23 and that is truly awful, these people hadn't even lived yet.
I mean I wonder if these guys were even doing "alternative stuff" besides the gear, ie synthol, rec. drugs, etc. Maybe it was just too much gear, which if true, is very scary.
I am 23 and that is truly awful, these people hadn't even lived yet.
Greek Freak
New member
1Mistake said:
I knew it was something dealing with his heart but didnt know that was the suspected cause of death. Definately makes you think.
Greek Freak said:
Bro Im goin to have to disagree with ya if he was a ripped 5'6" at 200+ he was a freak. Take a look at priest. last contest he was at 198.
My heart goes out to his family and friends 21 is way to young to go. A friend/owner of a local gym around here died like this also. He was 26/7 and his heart exploded while in the shower. He was a very heavy user/abuser of AAS but he also did many many rec drugs.
blingbling211
New member
you beat me to it ironkop.. at '5''6 200+ pounds, that IS indeed large and anyone who says thats not huge is completely out of touch with reality..
Scary shit bro, a kid I know just lost one of his best friends to a heart attack. The kid as on his 3rd cycle and supposidly didn't even abuse them. I didn't see the autopsy or anything though so maybe it wasn't even juice related but people are jumping to the conclusion that it was....either way it's a tragedy. I feel horrible for their friends and family and my prayers go out to them.
B
Big Jroy
Guest
Fuck... I'm going on 28 and have been drinking like a fish and smoking weed amongst other things since 18, now I'm on my first cycle and my heart does seem to have wierd feelings. I hope I'm not about to die.
ichabodcrane
New member
This is truly sad. But I will bet anyone that there were warning signs leading to this. Whether he chose to ignore them well..... My point being is that we all know the side effects of AAS, mainly high blood pressure related to increased erythropoesis, increased vascular volume, estrogenic edema etc. plus heavy work loads can lead to left ventricular hypertrophy. But these are things that you can control. I remember when I did my first cycle years ago, I hardly knew a thing about them. But one thing I found out was that they caused my BP to skyrocket. I was young and naive so I ingored it. But I became wiser through years of schooling and realized how stupid I was. I still choose to do them, but I keep things in check. Find a good doc and have a chat with him. Get your baseline lab tests and go from there, modify as needed and take precautions. After all its about longevity right? High blood pressure is a number one risk factor for heard disease (in any form) not to mention hyperlipidemia and the list goes on. But people be safe cuz I want to chat with you all for a very long time to come, even when my kids become members of this board we can all have hurah! peace
PURE EXTRACT
New member
Deeply feel simpathy for his family. His father has every right to persue this, but just the same way those fat assholes couldn't sue fast food joints, then no one should be responcible for this but that young man. If anything ever happened to me...actually nothing will ever happen to me because I don't abuse anything. The only drug I consume is alcohol and that's once every month or so.
The_Eviscerator
New member
I am glad I waited until I was 28 before I used steroids. I think starting in your teens is way too young.
wartime100
New member
Define this kid level of abuse. Odds are he had a prexisting condition.
zeus_forever
New member
sad
21 is too early to go guys.
21 is too early to go guys.
liftsiron
New member
Am I missing something? One post said that this kid died from an embolus caused by synthol which traveled to his heart, not steroids. The kid probably injected a vein. Remember Milos Sarcev almost bought the farm due to the same thing. I feel regret for the loss of this young man, please let this be a warning to everyone who uses synthol to be extra careful. It is also possible to hit a vein spot injecting steroids, so please take great care spot injecting as well.
Baby Gorilla
New member
Something most of us should do....
Sound like an odd thing, but I already decided this for myself....
I figure if I was diagnosed with a condition that the doctors could pretty much nail on my past AAS use, I would let anyone know (esp. family) that it's not the fault of anyone but myself. I knew the potential risks, and I chose to accept them to pursue the goals I wanted. I don't blame people who gave me advice, people who hooked me up with sources, or even my sources.
My fault, nobody elses. My choice, nobody's blame but my own. Nobody "murdered" me, I killed myself with my own choices.
However, what if I died of something sudden (like my heart exploding). I don't know if that's possible with the limited amount of gear I used or if it can happen after you're off. However for those of you still using, here's an idea.
Compose a letter detailing your use of AAS (basically your decision to do so and how long you've been using--giving a starting month and year), and put it someplace secure (safety deposit box or somplace in your home where people won't snoop). Of course, you'd admit to nothing more than using gear, but in the event you die and family members want someone to blame, this would be left behind so anyone (esp. the police) will know that you, the "victim," don't hold anyone else to blame for your choices.
Might not do much for the targets of your surviving family's wrath, but once such a letter is found, it really takes the steam out of what the police can do. A jury hears that the "victim" takes full responsibility for their choices and they might not go as a prosecutor wants. It also can be a comfort to those left behind who don't understand why we choose to do what we did.
Sound like an odd thing, but I already decided this for myself....
I figure if I was diagnosed with a condition that the doctors could pretty much nail on my past AAS use, I would let anyone know (esp. family) that it's not the fault of anyone but myself. I knew the potential risks, and I chose to accept them to pursue the goals I wanted. I don't blame people who gave me advice, people who hooked me up with sources, or even my sources.
My fault, nobody elses. My choice, nobody's blame but my own. Nobody "murdered" me, I killed myself with my own choices.
However, what if I died of something sudden (like my heart exploding). I don't know if that's possible with the limited amount of gear I used or if it can happen after you're off. However for those of you still using, here's an idea.
Compose a letter detailing your use of AAS (basically your decision to do so and how long you've been using--giving a starting month and year), and put it someplace secure (safety deposit box or somplace in your home where people won't snoop). Of course, you'd admit to nothing more than using gear, but in the event you die and family members want someone to blame, this would be left behind so anyone (esp. the police) will know that you, the "victim," don't hold anyone else to blame for your choices.
Might not do much for the targets of your surviving family's wrath, but once such a letter is found, it really takes the steam out of what the police can do. A jury hears that the "victim" takes full responsibility for their choices and they might not go as a prosecutor wants. It also can be a comfort to those left behind who don't understand why we choose to do what we did.
drveejay11
New member
21???????? Simply HORRIBLE!!!!
benchboy55
New member
thats scarry to hear, i'm 21 as well i sure as hell dont wanna leave this place!
Maybe the kid had other problems. Maybe the press will sensationalize it. But blame goes elsewhere, and we need only to look around us to find it.
I've been involved in this sport a long time and I've been very vocal in the benefits of AS and the disgrace of their criminalization. But I can say with all certainty that within the last five or six years the use of AS has become an epidemic -- not so much in the amount of people taking them, but the amounts which people are taking. Dare I say, it's drug addiction, plain and simple. And many of the people reading this post are in that catagory.
The tragic irony here is that we all want to be accepted for our choices. We feel that it's a civil right to do what we wish with our bodies and the stigma of steroids is a hysterical fear tactic perpetuated by a feckless and uniformed media. But in reality, if we are ever to be accepted, or in the least, tolerated, our argument must be sane and cogent. We must prove the detractors wrong. But every day, we prove them right.
The quest for more and more size has become a crazed obsession. People distort their bodies into freakish hulls. Women morph their very gender. Children die.
Shakesphere said: "Our fate is not in the stars, but in ourselves." The answer is obvious but the path toward redemtion is clutterd with confusion, and rationalizations, and bravado, and fear. No one wants to admt the bell tolls for thee.
There's an old saying: "The world will only cry with you for only one day." So today on this board we mourn the loss of a life yet begun. Yet, I have no doubt, tomorrow the topics will be insulin, DNP, Bromo and mixing up cow medicine in your sink and injecting it into your bloodstream. Then before long, another post: Friend of mine, ripped and huge...dead. And again we'll cry. And again, deny.
.
I've been involved in this sport a long time and I've been very vocal in the benefits of AS and the disgrace of their criminalization. But I can say with all certainty that within the last five or six years the use of AS has become an epidemic -- not so much in the amount of people taking them, but the amounts which people are taking. Dare I say, it's drug addiction, plain and simple. And many of the people reading this post are in that catagory.
The tragic irony here is that we all want to be accepted for our choices. We feel that it's a civil right to do what we wish with our bodies and the stigma of steroids is a hysterical fear tactic perpetuated by a feckless and uniformed media. But in reality, if we are ever to be accepted, or in the least, tolerated, our argument must be sane and cogent. We must prove the detractors wrong. But every day, we prove them right.
The quest for more and more size has become a crazed obsession. People distort their bodies into freakish hulls. Women morph their very gender. Children die.
Shakesphere said: "Our fate is not in the stars, but in ourselves." The answer is obvious but the path toward redemtion is clutterd with confusion, and rationalizations, and bravado, and fear. No one wants to admt the bell tolls for thee.
There's an old saying: "The world will only cry with you for only one day." So today on this board we mourn the loss of a life yet begun. Yet, I have no doubt, tomorrow the topics will be insulin, DNP, Bromo and mixing up cow medicine in your sink and injecting it into your bloodstream. Then before long, another post: Friend of mine, ripped and huge...dead. And again we'll cry. And again, deny.
.
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GENETIC_FREAK
Banned
Fairly interesting to note how many guys die of heart failor at that age without the use of drugs. Often such congenital defects go unnoticed until an event has occured.-------Freak
Enigmaxxx7
New member
Now that the kid is dead, the father wants to investigate. Typical. Before that I'm sure the father was walking chest out saying to himself "damn my boy looks good".
Sometimes you pay to play. I see guys that are juicing large 365 days a year. They are huge and ripped......and stupid. They'll never make it to 50.
Sometimes you pay to play. I see guys that are juicing large 365 days a year. They are huge and ripped......and stupid. They'll never make it to 50.
40butpumpin
New member
liftsiron said:
I agree. I'm 42 and have had an "enlarged heart" since my early 20's. So please don't start the enlarged heart hysteria. You don't die from an enlarged heart. Your heart can enlarge for numerous reasons and one of them is excessive workload such as training. If the function of the heart is compromised due to the condition this is another stroy, however, this is invariably due to a deseased heart as opposed to an enlarged heart. Please, no debates, I've talked to MD's and researched this to death. I'm as healthy as can be and living a normal life with an enlarged heart and plan on living a lot longer. Peace.
Greek Freak
New member
Nelson Montana said:
Amazing post.
As for when I said the kid was not a monster, I was just basing it on most 21 year olds I know around that height/wt. A couple months ago I met John Hnayshak(sp) who does the animal ads and was training for the masters olmplia, he was in rediculous shape and 200 lbs. I shouldnt have even commented on that though because reguardless the kid is dead. It is always so sad to see them go young and hopefully he can be used as an example to help save others lives.
Nelson, you have brought this point up many times in the past however you leave the reader nothing to do but speculate on the specifics. For example you claim many here use too large of doses for too long but never elaborate. The doses taken here range from one extreme to the other and therefor the reader can only guess at the wisdom you are trying to impart. Now, I realize you may not want to give details because they may be contained in your book but at the same time it gets pretty old to see the same old line, especially if your not going to offer any information. I for honestly look forward to reading your book, but my attempts so far have been unsuccessful.Nelson Montana said:
Thanks for the comments. Im not real interested so much on the level at which the book communicates with the reader but more the perspectives that different individuals bring to the table.liftsiron said:
Also, I am sorry to get off topic on this thread for death is a tragedy.
Zyg: I didn't feel this was the time or place to start espousing my personal opinion of recommended dosages. I touch upon that in the book and elaborate more deeply in an upcoming book , but I'm not trying to hawk sales, it's just a complicated subject and deserves more than a casual mention.
In regards to the post, I was mearly trying to bring things "down to earth" so to speak, I'm a writer, and I felt to need to write about what happened. I'm sorry if you found it "old."
In an effort to be fair, I will address a few things, now that it's been brought up.
Some of the advice I see on this board is, in my opinion, beyond irreponsible. But everyone has a right to do what they want and it isn't my job to stop them. People get defensive. They get antagonistic. I've even been accused of being "jeoulous of not being 260 pounds, when I can't imagine why ANYONE would WANT to be 260 pounds! But that's me.
Incidentally, I also trust that when liftsiron says the book is book for beginners I presume he means it will help beginners -- not that the information is basic and mainstream. I can't tell you how many publishers said it was too radical because it isn't what "the establishment" says. My guess is that lifer is very advanced.
Here are a few quick points about drug use. Take it for what it's worth.
Recommending anything more than 400mgs a week to a first timer: Dumb.
Anyone taking more than 1500mgs a week: Dumb.
Staying on for more than 8 weeks: Dumb.
Using veterinarian products: Dumb.
Using Anadrol or Halo: Dumb
Using Clomid for weeks: Dumb.
Using Insulin: Dumb.
Using Insulin with GH: Very Dumb.
Bridging. Dumb
Using Cytomel, Clenbuteral, RU486, Dopamine, Synthol, Nubain, Diuetics, or DNP: Insane.
Now I'm sure I've pissed off half the board with this. But fuck it. That's the way I see it. And I've seen a lot.
If this hurts the sale of my book, so be it. If it makes one person think twice about doing something stupid, it's more than worth it.
.
In regards to the post, I was mearly trying to bring things "down to earth" so to speak, I'm a writer, and I felt to need to write about what happened. I'm sorry if you found it "old."
In an effort to be fair, I will address a few things, now that it's been brought up.
Some of the advice I see on this board is, in my opinion, beyond irreponsible. But everyone has a right to do what they want and it isn't my job to stop them. People get defensive. They get antagonistic. I've even been accused of being "jeoulous of not being 260 pounds, when I can't imagine why ANYONE would WANT to be 260 pounds! But that's me.
Incidentally, I also trust that when liftsiron says the book is book for beginners I presume he means it will help beginners -- not that the information is basic and mainstream. I can't tell you how many publishers said it was too radical because it isn't what "the establishment" says. My guess is that lifer is very advanced.
Here are a few quick points about drug use. Take it for what it's worth.
Recommending anything more than 400mgs a week to a first timer: Dumb.
Anyone taking more than 1500mgs a week: Dumb.
Staying on for more than 8 weeks: Dumb.
Using veterinarian products: Dumb.
Using Anadrol or Halo: Dumb
Using Clomid for weeks: Dumb.
Using Insulin: Dumb.
Using Insulin with GH: Very Dumb.
Bridging. Dumb
Using Cytomel, Clenbuteral, RU486, Dopamine, Synthol, Nubain, Diuetics, or DNP: Insane.
Now I'm sure I've pissed off half the board with this. But fuck it. That's the way I see it. And I've seen a lot.
If this hurts the sale of my book, so be it. If it makes one person think twice about doing something stupid, it's more than worth it.
.
C
Citruscide
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
Sweet, I was looking for an argument to use against the defendant on a patent lawsuit I'm currently working on... I think you have given me an idea.
"Your honor... the defendant's use of my clients patent is 'Dumb'" -- The Plaintiff rests.
Nice factual backup... ass.
C-ditty
40butpumpin
New member
Nelson Montana said:
Excellent post, I agree with this 100%. Nelson you're a good bro, doing (or saying) the right thing despite the consequences. That's called integrity and there's nothing else like it.
And to all you band-wagon jumpers grow some balls and form an opinion for yourself. IMO that is.
This is Bull-Shit plain and simple. 21 year olds die every day, whether they take roids or not. Freak shit happens sometimes, people die out of nowhere. I bet this kid didn't even use large amounts and I'll bet that steroids were NOT the cause of his death. If it was synthol, then He should have been smarter and aspirated. Whenever your injecting yourself with anything you have to be careful. I am in perfect health and I'm 20 yrs old and use gear. I get my blood work done periodically and I'm fine everytime. Of course, my HDL levels sometimes go higher than they should be, among a few other minor and reversible side effects, but I'm in no more danger of dying than anyone else.
I feel for the kid and his family, but I don't believe that steroids are to blame for this. Anyone that thinks that taking steroids is going to kill you, then get your head out of your ass and don't even bother taking them, leaves more for me.
I feel for the kid and his family, but I don't believe that steroids are to blame for this. Anyone that thinks that taking steroids is going to kill you, then get your head out of your ass and don't even bother taking them, leaves more for me.
liftsiron
New member
Nelson Montana your book is a good book for the inexperienced, it does reiterate many basic fundementals of weight training, that is not bad, that is good. It took me years to learn that it is the basics that build muscle, not multi tri sets performed in break neck speed. Yes you do go against some mainstream beliefs i.e. your stand on aerobics. I by no means was discrediting your book, In fact it reinforced my own philosphy regarding weight training and diet etc. I do reccommend it as a good book for anyone looking to advoid many common pitfalls that limit progress toward bodybuilding. I agree with your ideas about 90%. Some areas where we differ are, I believe in bridgeing when necessary, example being a competitor who has two shows five months apart. I like longer low to moderate dose cycles. I really like QV products. I would like to see you write a really advanced book for those of us who are hardcore at heart.
Baby Gorilla
New member
Uh....
May not be relevant to your case, but that defense does exist....it's called ASSUMPTION OF RISK.
Gear users should know that it comes with inherent dangers. We get the stuff illegally, we use it without a doctor's supervisions, we know there are risks of side effects from use. Even with the best efforts to educate ourselves and be careful, those risks still exist.
So, someone who does stupid things is assuming the risk of the consequences. The supplier of goods should not be liable for the resulting harm.
Citruscide said:
May not be relevant to your case, but that defense does exist....it's called ASSUMPTION OF RISK.
Gear users should know that it comes with inherent dangers. We get the stuff illegally, we use it without a doctor's supervisions, we know there are risks of side effects from use. Even with the best efforts to educate ourselves and be careful, those risks still exist.
So, someone who does stupid things is assuming the risk of the consequences. The supplier of goods should not be liable for the resulting harm.
Nelson, I didnt mean to make it sound like I wanted you to reiterate your book here in this thread. You are very passionate about your views and I respect that, im in no way trying to discredit you, hope you didnt take it that way. I also wasnt trying to hijak this thread, but invarable did, my condolences to the friends and family of the deceased.Nelson Montana said:
However, your reponse to me is exactly the kind of response that I do find a little aggrivating. I said I was interested in your book and I meant that. I like to see other peoples perspective. No matter how open minded we think we are no single person can see things from every angle and view so I honestly do like to see others points of view. What I mean by aggrivating is that you state your stance about so many things you are against but do not go into any details backing up why you feel the way you do. Granted, a lot of people here just want a laundry list of do's and dont's and you have provided that quiet nicely, but I would have to say the majority of participating members here want more than a laundry list, they want facts, evidence, studies etc. Bottom line is most people here want facts not opinions. That is not to say your opinions arent backed by good solid evidence, you just fail to produce any and leave people hanging.
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40butpumpin
New member
Zyglamail said:
Bro, I don't believe that you, or Nelson, have sent this thread in a direction that isn't ultimately going to be beneficial and important, especially to the younger group reading it.
I realize your comment was directed at Nelson, however, if you would indulge me, I would like to respond -- for me.
I can only hope it's pretty obvious to us that it's no coincidence that the ones that are dying within our would are the young and inexperienced. To the type of mentality that is most times associated with a 20+ year old, things must be put simpy. The simpler the better in fact. I don't mean that as an insult but let's face it, we've all been there, it's life at 500 mph. And that's why Nelson's post is important -- to me. I agree that there are bro's on here that are interested in the underlying science behind things; "facts, evidence, studies," however, I can tell you very confidently that the younger user -- which I believe is the vast majority here -- doesn't give a shit about any such studies. They only want overnight physical perfection and will do just about anything to get it. Since they are the ones that are dying, they are the ones that need to be catered to. I give Nelson a lot of credit for being a voice of reason, his thoughts and comments are consisent and conservative and give a good, solid, healthy balance to a excellent board. So I guess what I'm saying is that the message "be smart, be safe, be healthy" doesn't need scientific backing, it's just not necessary -- for me.
My comments come with all due respect, Zyg, I hope you don't see them in any other light.
Fair enough Zyg. But since this is a discussion group I don't want to bog down the pace by jumping on a soap box. Personally I think its rude when people grandstand and write 3 page dissertations. Sometimes it's valuable, but as a journalist, if I want to elaborate on something I believe it should be within a context that allows me to do so adequately. Having said that, I think I've provided quite a bit of information on these posts and answer every private mail. (My reply box doesn't allow for more than 1000 characters though).
I should also mention that I'm not about to start researching references for the satisfaction of anyone who demands it. I read thousands of pages of data every month and then draw conclusions based on my evaluation and experience -- often in contradiction to what the studies say. If anyone has a problem with that, they probably won't like my work. If you want calculations and graphs, buy a textbook. I'm not interested in debating academia or arguing minutia. I deal with real world evidence. I'm a writer and what I do is to try and present information in an entertaining manner. If that works for you, cool. If not, no hard feelings.
Hope this helps to clarify things bro.
I should also mention that I'm not about to start researching references for the satisfaction of anyone who demands it. I read thousands of pages of data every month and then draw conclusions based on my evaluation and experience -- often in contradiction to what the studies say. If anyone has a problem with that, they probably won't like my work. If you want calculations and graphs, buy a textbook. I'm not interested in debating academia or arguing minutia. I deal with real world evidence. I'm a writer and what I do is to try and present information in an entertaining manner. If that works for you, cool. If not, no hard feelings.
Hope this helps to clarify things bro.
I do see your view here and its a good one, im not saying I disagree with you, or nelson for that matter. Additionally you are very correct that many people do want results and they want them yesterday. However I still feel a little backing goes a long way. No offense to Nelson intended but the same kids that are living at 500mph are going to see comments as "vet gear = dumb" as nothing but idle chatter and just keep racing on. I simply feel that (and this is just an example mind you) "In my experience, I have seen far more infections due to impurities from vet gear. Additionally I have also seen numerous lab tests showing many times vet contains "other" AAS than what the label claims".40butpumpin said:
Thats just an example of the point im trying to make. Adding a little more to "vet gear = dumb" gives the comment more credibility and doesnt take tons of board space or spew out needless abstract data, but it, in my humble opinion, adds a little more credibility to the statement. Maybe its just me but simply telling me not to do something carries with it very little value, I need to know why. On that same note, I think in order to actually acheive the goals of more intelligent drug use we have to either show people the downside of abuse, the upside of moderation or both.
...I've seen far more infections due to impurities from vet gear...
THANK YOU ZYG.
bazibb: I just answered this (albiet abbreviated) on your private mail to me. This is the thing...I can't answer every question in detail to everyone. I just don't have the time. As it is, I'm repeating myself.
The Clomid issue is something I delve into in my new book,(should be available by Jan 2003) which is more drug oriented than The Bodybuilding Truth. I have a full chapter on the disadvantages of Clomid.
I used to give private phone consultations for anyone who wanted in-depth personal information. I may start that again, but honestly, the book answers most of these questions and it's a lot cheaper.
THANK YOU ZYG.
bazibb: I just answered this (albiet abbreviated) on your private mail to me. This is the thing...I can't answer every question in detail to everyone. I just don't have the time. As it is, I'm repeating myself.
The Clomid issue is something I delve into in my new book,(should be available by Jan 2003) which is more drug oriented than The Bodybuilding Truth. I have a full chapter on the disadvantages of Clomid.
I used to give private phone consultations for anyone who wanted in-depth personal information. I may start that again, but honestly, the book answers most of these questions and it's a lot cheaper.
Re: Re: 21yr old from my gym...DEAD!
Exactly! The fathers problems lie in the fact that whenever I spoke to the 21yr old and he mentioned his dad , he would refer to him as a dickhead. Basically they didnt have a good relationship and now his father has to live with this the rest of his life. So now he is blaming someone or something else. What kills me is that he knew his son was juicing and now that hes dead he blames the juice. And now wants to do something about it. Its a little late though. And again, he has to live with this......galaxy
*** said:
take some responsibility for your actions. sucks for the family, but don't blame the supplier. blame your son's perosnality that drove him to drugs
Exactly! The fathers problems lie in the fact that whenever I spoke to the 21yr old and he mentioned his dad , he would refer to him as a dickhead. Basically they didnt have a good relationship and now his father has to live with this the rest of his life. So now he is blaming someone or something else. What kills me is that he knew his son was juicing and now that hes dead he blames the juice. And now wants to do something about it. Its a little late though. And again, he has to live with this......galaxy
A doctor told me recently that steroids causes a fatty heart, which means a weakened heart. It enlarges as a defense mechanism, the walls thicken and it becomes less effecient at pumping blood. This is a big debate right now. It appears that some people do get this condition from AS use, but I'm not certain. I've heard far too many people having problems with their heart while on steroids for it to be coincidence.
C
Citruscide
Guest
Re: Uh....
You missed the entire point of the sarcasm in my post.
But I agree with you.
C-ditty
Baby Gorilla said:
You missed the entire point of the sarcasm in my post.
But I agree with you.
C-ditty
Somebody metioned Milos Sarcev
I was at the checkout line the other day thumbing through the latest "Flex." I flipped to an interview with Milos Sarcev. The interviewer asked why Milos had not competed in the 2000 Olympia. Milos said that he was shooting Synthol into his triceps when the needle slipped and went into a vein. The Synthol quickly went into his heart and he had to be rushed to the hospital. He said that he came very close to dying.
Milos was one of the few professional bodybuilders that I actually liked. He has symmetry as well as size. He also seems quite a bit more intelligent than many of the pros. Well, any respect I had for him is now gone.
Synthol is some nasty stuff. Obviously injecting it into your veins is not a good idea, but if you inject it into the muscle it will ultimately end up in the blood, albeit at a slower rate. If you didn't already know, then you know now.
I was at the checkout line the other day thumbing through the latest "Flex." I flipped to an interview with Milos Sarcev. The interviewer asked why Milos had not competed in the 2000 Olympia. Milos said that he was shooting Synthol into his triceps when the needle slipped and went into a vein. The Synthol quickly went into his heart and he had to be rushed to the hospital. He said that he came very close to dying.
Milos was one of the few professional bodybuilders that I actually liked. He has symmetry as well as size. He also seems quite a bit more intelligent than many of the pros. Well, any respect I had for him is now gone.
Synthol is some nasty stuff. Obviously injecting it into your veins is not a good idea, but if you inject it into the muscle it will ultimately end up in the blood, albeit at a slower rate. If you didn't already know, then you know now.
Do I believe his heart just exploded.NO. Do I think steroids played a part. YES. Thus, I cant say steroids wont kill you. They may. You may have an underlying physical condition that steroids will bring on faster.I just try to look at things intelligently. I could put blinders on, but I wont.
[email protected]
New member
Greek Freak said:
200 lbs. at 5'6" and ripped is pretty good size bro.
powerlord
New member
You know I've thought about this alot,a skydiver will jump out of a perfectly good plane knowing that he may die,and sometimes they do,same with a Nascar driver,drag racer,scuba diver,the list goes on,bodybuilders fit in the same thrill seeker category as these other professions,you have to be safe as you possibly can to have a long career in this game or any of these others.Being excited and scared at the same time is what brings thrill seekers into the game they choose,sacrifice for success!!! 
galaxy said:
I am almost certain that it was the pre-existing condition that was the downfall of this young man. At 21 there are so many possibilities, but AAS don't seem to me to correlate with early death. It too vague really to speculate on what it COULD be; but it's a shame that his father is crusading against AAS. A father's eternal guilt over his son's premature death can cause problems for so many of us now.
DIV
androjunkie
New member
I lost my best friend last year at 22yrs old. I've mentioned this before on here before. Autopsy reports said that he had an enlarged ventricle(of course). He only used moderate doses on cycles and only juiced for a few years. He was 6'0" 247lbs@ 8-9%bf. Strong mofo too. Squatted 500+lbs benched 440lbs,etc.
He did abuse a lot of different rec drugs including coke which he used on and off for many years. I still don't know the exact cause of death but it was either a heartattack or anuerysm. I was told by his brother that when they found him he had blood coming out of his nose and ears. He had been deceased for 2 days before they discovered him in his house. What does that sound like to you guys? Anuerysm?
I wish I knew what it was specifically. It worries me a lot, especially lately because I'm experiencing some of the same things he did before he passed. I'm not saying I'm dying but I've been feeling very fucked up for the past week. I went to the doc today to request complete blood work done, so hopefully I'll know something by Friday. The doc seemed worried when I told him my symptoms so that didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I really hope its nothing.
He did abuse a lot of different rec drugs including coke which he used on and off for many years. I still don't know the exact cause of death but it was either a heartattack or anuerysm. I was told by his brother that when they found him he had blood coming out of his nose and ears. He had been deceased for 2 days before they discovered him in his house. What does that sound like to you guys? Anuerysm?
I wish I knew what it was specifically. It worries me a lot, especially lately because I'm experiencing some of the same things he did before he passed. I'm not saying I'm dying but I've been feeling very fucked up for the past week. I went to the doc today to request complete blood work done, so hopefully I'll know something by Friday. The doc seemed worried when I told him my symptoms so that didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I really hope its nothing.
S
satchboogie
Guest
very sad to see a young soldier fall..
but lets get real for one second..
steroids ALONE did not kill him.
there are just too many 'unknowns'
but lets get real for one second..
steroids ALONE did not kill him.
there are just too many 'unknowns'
mr juice
New member
Its a sad story, we all make our choices, and we have to live with them, so long as you know you made a choice, then stick by it, thick and thin, you should be happy you have had a chance to make a choice, and nobody can be blamed for your own decisions, its a tough one, mind you, its a tough world, do the right thing......whatever that is 4 you..
PEACE!
PEACE!
2BIG4URMOM
New member
DIVISION said:I am almost certain that it was the pre-existing condition that was the downfall of this young man. At 21 there are so many possibilities, but AAS don't seem to me to correlate with early death. It too vague really to speculate on what it COULD be; but it's a shame that his father is crusading against AAS. A father's eternal guilt over his son's premature death can cause problems for so many of us now.
DIV
I agree bro, anytime AAS are mentioned it's like a bad word. You can say you use crack or smoke weed in public, but if you mention the word "steroids" its like you just killed somebody.
I highly doubt if that kids death was directly linked to the gear, but more of a pre-existing condition.
When I was in the Army during basic training some kid died. They later said he had a heart murmur, I guess all that running or something did him in.
There is no telling what that kid died from, but to speculate that it was due to the abuse of steriods will just give it a worse reputation than it already has.
a few months ago i had an ekg done by substitute doctor b/cause mine was away on vaca, when she saw it she asked me if i had any family history of sudden deaths or heart attacks, i said yea my uncle died at 25 just droppped dead. she looked shocked and concerned. then my doc comes back from vaca and reads my ekg and says im fine...wtf!!??
VictorBR
New member
Nelson Montana said:
1- Agree
2- Unless you are a PRO like Coleman , I agree , he needs more than 1.5 g , WE DON"T . SO , I agree
3- I really dont agree here , 8 weeks might not be enough for someone to reach their goal . So , if you want to go in a 20 weeks cycle to reach your goals , fine . IT IS BETTER than doing 8 weeks here , stop 8 weeks , do 8 weeks again , stop 8 weeks ..... you will just keep screwing your body , you recover , then you screw it again , recover , screw ...... no sense . It is better to screw it ONCE and for ALL , and then recover ONLY ONE TIME .
4- I also don't agree there are really PURE and fine vet products around ... NO SENSE .
5- Agree
6- Agree
7- Again we don't need it, but Coleman does ....so it might be dumb for us but not for him
8- Same as above
9- AGree
10 - clenbuterol and T-3 are not that bad really . The rest I agree it is stupid , insane and dump
just my 0.2 cents
Victor
fatmasterfat
New member
I'm amazed at how many people can think of how this effected them, or gives them an opportunity to say how they dont abuse steroids. This young man just lost his life and all you can think about is yourselves.
My deepest condolences to his family and friends, our prayers are with you.
RIP
My deepest condolences to his family and friends, our prayers are with you.
RIP
There are so many things that can cause shit it’s not funny and it’s very sad if someone dies of something or has a heart attack and they cannot figure out the problem everyone points to the steroids.
I had a heart attack a month ago from a blood clot blocking my main coronary artery. I got life flighted and all that good shit but the doctors did every type of test they could think of and still could not figure out what caused the clot. I have not been on steroids for 3 months. The doctors told me it’s possible the roids caused thickening of the blood but they where not sure. Once they found out other things I was taking stuff started to make sense.
They don’t think it was the androgens now. I was a big time anti e guy and estrogen has many cardiovascular protective effects. Blockers, aromatize inhibitors , or non-aromatizing steroids may play a part in what happened to me by decreasing the circulating estrogen concentrations is very bad.
It’s scary when the doctors at one of the best hospitals in the world cannot pin point what caused the clot. Hell my arteries where fine and my cholesterol was fine. Well I did not have enough good cholesterol so that can be the same as having bad but still not reason to form a clot. They think it was just one of those freak things that happen sometimes. Now I get to take cholesterol med’s the rest of my life and lipitor is worse than taking a bombs for your liver. Whel the dosage I am on anyway. After 3 months I will only be on 10mg. Even though my cholesterol was not bad when you start having heart problems they put you on it anyway.
Here is the messed up part about the whole heart attack. You know what the rumors are around town are now don’t you? He made top 100 benchers in IPF and he abuses steroids that’s how he has his heart attack. And most people believe it. Hell I was into building up my body not tearing it down. I would run 2 miles 2x a week even. My diet was not the best but it is now.
Luckily it did not do a whole lot of damage to my heart and I will be ok but non the less it was a heart attack. Scary shit. Especially when you have a whole house fu
I had a heart attack a month ago from a blood clot blocking my main coronary artery. I got life flighted and all that good shit but the doctors did every type of test they could think of and still could not figure out what caused the clot. I have not been on steroids for 3 months. The doctors told me it’s possible the roids caused thickening of the blood but they where not sure. Once they found out other things I was taking stuff started to make sense.
They don’t think it was the androgens now. I was a big time anti e guy and estrogen has many cardiovascular protective effects. Blockers, aromatize inhibitors , or non-aromatizing steroids may play a part in what happened to me by decreasing the circulating estrogen concentrations is very bad.
It’s scary when the doctors at one of the best hospitals in the world cannot pin point what caused the clot. Hell my arteries where fine and my cholesterol was fine. Well I did not have enough good cholesterol so that can be the same as having bad but still not reason to form a clot. They think it was just one of those freak things that happen sometimes. Now I get to take cholesterol med’s the rest of my life and lipitor is worse than taking a bombs for your liver. Whel the dosage I am on anyway. After 3 months I will only be on 10mg. Even though my cholesterol was not bad when you start having heart problems they put you on it anyway.
Here is the messed up part about the whole heart attack. You know what the rumors are around town are now don’t you? He made top 100 benchers in IPF and he abuses steroids that’s how he has his heart attack. And most people believe it. Hell I was into building up my body not tearing it down. I would run 2 miles 2x a week even. My diet was not the best but it is now.
Luckily it did not do a whole lot of damage to my heart and I will be ok but non the less it was a heart attack. Scary shit. Especially when you have a whole house fu
slash747
New member
I have a friend heading in the same direction. He is 30 and is pretty much popping whatever he can into his body, whether it be prop, winny, sust, he does not even do cycles anymore, just whatever he can get his hands on at that time. And then lets not forget the coccaine and alchohol binges he goes on .Ive grown up with this guy known him my whole life, he was the guy that got me into BB and I felt for a while like I owed him. But now I realized theres nothing I can do but help his poor father pay for his funeral. Life is a bitch.
androjunkie said:
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