pwrhngry's 5x5

Hi, guys. Im in the middle of the Bill Starr 5x5 layed out by madcow2 right now. I went with the dual factor version,because Ive been lifting for about 18-20 months, and thought it would be best,besides Ive read a lot about dual factor, and wanted to give it a go.
You'll notice that my abilities are pretty humble right now for someone with a year and a half of very consistend training behind them. I owe it all to plain ignorance. When I began lifting it was after dropping 45 pounds in about 9 months (unintentionally) following a real ugly divorce. Just kindof lost interest in eating, sleeping or being alive for a while there. Then, and Im pretty sure about this, even though it sounds crazy, God himself saved my bacon by biting me with this "iron bug". So Im in the process of rebuilding a body that I pretty much wrecked.
I say I blame ignorance for my weakness because when I started lifting, and for almost the whole time now, Ive been doing basically an Arnold type routine (three way split, 3on 1 off, 2 a day, 90 min a piece) and eating about 1800-2000 calories a day! No wonder I now have no bodyfat, low strength,and probably the test levels of a runaway hampster. So about 3 months ago I realized that while I was undoubtedly working my @ss off, I needed to put some knowledge into the old grey matter. S now I eat abou 2500-2800 calories a day, 6 meals, still squeaky clean. I dropped frequency and volume, and now for a month I ve been using this 5x5. I think maybe I should try the single factor though. Well heres the progression so far, tell me what yall think, Oh by the way my youngest daughter got hold of my log, so week 1 has been lost to the crayon monster, irretrievably. Its pretty much in line with the remaining 2 that I have here though, so Im not going to have a heart attack over it. If loosing record of 3 workouts is gonna be my biggest problem, then Im happy. the only mods I did at all wre to put all the ramping sets on day one, and all the 5x5 on day 3, for simplicities sake, and I threw in a set of dips on day 2, which turned out to be a mistake, because,while I love them, they really screw up day 3 bench.
WEEK 2,DAY 1:SQUAT:135X5,140X5,145X5,150X5,155X4(COULDNT SQUEEZE OUT THE LAST REP)
BENCH:120X5,125X5,130X5,135X5,140X5
ROWS:75X5,80X5,85X5,90X5,95X5
B.BELL CURLS:60X8,60X8,60X6
CRUNCHES:3X100
The bench and rows were cake, really didnt feel like I was pushing hard at all. Squats are always low as I can go w/o leaning forward. Really concentrating on perfect form. I thought I would be stronger on my curls, but they pumped up nice.
WEEK 2,DAY 2:SQUAT:135:5X5 (AFTER LOOKING AT THE LAYOUT,i WENT A LITTLE HEAVIER HERE THAN i WAS SUPPOSED TO, BUT iM WEAK ON SQUATS SO WTF)
DEADS:200:5X5
STANDING MILITARY:100:5X4,4X1 (OVERESTIMATED MYSELF A LITTLE)
PULL UPS:4X2,3X2,2X1 (ALL i CAN DO RIGHT YET)
DIPS:=10LBS 12X1,11X1,9X1,8X1
CRUNCHES:2X100
WEEK 2, DAY 3:SQUAT:150:3X5,4X1,5X1 (GAVE UP TOO EASY ON THE SET I ONLY GOT 4 ON, SHOUL HAVE FORCED IT OUT,I GOT IT ON THE LAST SET)
BENCH:135:3X5,2X4 (THOSE DIPS HURT ME, IM STRONGER THAN THIS)
ROWS:95:5X5
SKULL CRUSHERS:60:1X6,1X4,1X3 (THOSE DIPS)
All in all a shitty workout, good form, but felt weak all the way around, and missed some reps, damn!
WEEK3 DAY 1:SQUAT:135X5,140X5,145X5,150X5,160X6 (FELT SPICY SO i DID AN EXTRA ON THE LAST SET)
BENCH:125X5,130X5,135X5,140X4,145X2 (DAMN MY BENCH IS TAKIN A DUMP HERE)
ROWS:80X5,85X5,90X5,95X5,100X5
B.BELL CURL:60:8X3
CRUNCHES:100X1
STRAIGHT LEGLIFTS:25X2
The crunchers were getting to be more aerobic than developmental so I threw in these leg lifts w/straight legs,much more challenging. My bench is still down, bummer.
WEEK 3, DAY2:SQUATS:130:5X5 (CAKE)
DEADS:205:5X5
MILITARY:100:5X5
PULL UPS:1X4,2X3,2X2 (DID BETTER LAST WEEK WTF?)
CRUNCHES:100X2
LEG LIFTS:25X2
WEEK3 DAY 3:SQUAT:155:5X5
BENCH:135:5X5
ROWS:100:5X5
SKULLCRUSHERS:60:2X8,1X6
CRUNCHES:100X2
LEG LIFTS:30X2
Hit all my sets and reps in good form this time. I still feel like I should be wearing bobby socks with the weights Im using, but its gettin better.
OK guys that catches yall up on my 5x5 to here, I promise no more enduro-posts, thanks if you read it this far. Ill keep on with the journal if there is any interest. I appreciate any advice or tips. Thanks.
Oh, I almost forgot my stats are:
5'11''
155#
3.5% bodyfat (according to fatrack gold digital calipers)
And heres me:

I really doubt your at 3.5% bodyfat
but I hope this 5x5 works out wel for you

Everyone's gone single factor 5x5 crazy

Welcome to the boards! I think you need to eat more. 2500 cals is just going to maintain you. Try to get up to 3500 - 4000.

Good luck!

Anotherbutter, hey man, nice to see you here, your log is one of the factors that went into my trying out this 5x5. How is it going? good I hope.
Ive been following the dual factor program up to now, but Im really thinking of switching over to the single factor instead of going into deload afetr this week. See even this "volume phase" is about half the volume Im used to, but clearly what I was doing was'nt working. I just think maybe I should switch over to the single factor because, while I have about a year and a half of dedicated training behind me, I was doing too much isolation and too little foundation work. I just dont know if it would be best to switch over mid stream. Any opinions, guys? Madcow, are you out there?

I would most definitely transition into single factor. Remember, DF isn't a rite of passage, it's just one more complication (albeit a necessary one at somepoint). Push on SF and switch when the time comes, which I suppose will be clear, though around here I've yet to see someone make the switch. A-B or dj-bj will at some point however.

And like the others said, eat more.

Congrats on the positive life changes you are making. I'm a recovering alcoholic (at 25- ha!) and the weights are a major help in dealing with the various issues that are associated with my disease.

You know, I'm just another newbie trying something new. I never had decent gains before I started my journal. I never expected the results that I now post week to week. I'm gobsmacked myself, I really am. So, if my journal has helped you, I can only feel humbled and hope that you do well and that yours will do the same for someone else.

I wish madcow was still around. I don't think I've said it, but he got me into this and I owe everything to him. I just hope I make him proud when he comes back and reads my log

I digress...

As you've probably read, I started off with the dual factor too. When I was in about week 8 or 9, I was wondering whether I could just run with it until the gains stopped, effectively running the single factor straight after the dual factor (although I didn't realise it at the time). Of course I could! And of course you should be able to too.

If you eat enough, you'll build muscle and should be able to increase your weights week by week. The loading you've accumulated and have in you right now will give you a big kick start. To be honest, I don't know whether to recommend finishing off the dual factor by following the 3x3 regime or switching right now to the single factor and enjoying some accelerated gains on the single factor. I can't think off the top of my head which of the DF 3x3 or the SF 1x5 has the most volume.

It's probably pretty much of a muchness, so play it however you feel.

Any questions, just ask. I'm just a wannabe single factor mini-madcow

Hey,Butter, thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Im trying to up my calories but every time I do I seem to spend most of my time feeling pretty bloated and I carry about 5 extra pounds. I know its not anything all that productive though and my bodyfat readings dont change I just carry more water and waste (yuck). Anyway here is the latest installment of the "pwrhngry" show. today was ramping day.
WEEK4 DAY1:SQUATS:135X5,145X5,155X5,165X5,175X5(PR!)
BENCH:125X5,135X5,145X5,150X4,150X3 (MESSD UP AND SKIPPED A WEIGHT, I SHOULD HAVE DONE 140 ON THE 4TH SET,BUT i DID REASONABLY WELL FOR ME ANYWAY,EVEN THOUGH i MISSED THE REPS ON THE LAST 2 SETS, THAT IS MY BODYWEIGHT)
ROWS:85X5,90X5,95X5,100X5,105X5 (STILL CAKE, I CANT SEEM TO KEEP UP WITH THESE, NOT THAT IM COMPLAINING)
BARBELL CURLS:65:8X2,7X1
CRUNCHES100X2
LEGLIFTS:30X2
All in all a real solid feeling w/o. Squats pleased me very much, a month ago 175 was like having my ass stapled to my heels and today I did it for 5 and felt solid!
Well Ill keep posting the progress of this here weakling, see ya fellas.

Even with a training background, if you've never done a workout like this, squatting three times a week, and training the whole body as one, you would probably be better served starting out with the single factor approach. As you probably discovered the volume and workload that causes built up fatigue from this program is much different than the volume of doing say 8 different isolation movements in a day.

Dual Factor programs aren't necessarily "better", there just comes a point in your training when you need to use that approach to continue progressing. You'll reach that point eventually, but enjoy gaining on the single factor for as long as you can. The fact that doing a set of dips on Wed ruined your Fri bench workout is a really good indicator that you need even more conditioning and can really do well on a single factor for a while yet.

As far as the diet goes.....what are your goals?? If you're training like this, I would imagine you want to get big and strong. You'll need to eat a lot more than 2500 calories to foster the recovery requirements for this workout and to keep gaining strength and size. I would dramatically up the calories if I were you. Remember this is not a 'cutting' routine, if you want to eat squeaky clean and freak out over every last gram of everything you put into your body and stay ultra, ultra lean, this program won't work because you'll never be able to get through the workouts. You don't have to eat like an asshole or anything, you can eat an abundance of good, wholesome foods, but you need your calories, and you need plenty of good, quality carbs and essential fats.

Good luck with the program, and yes, just transition into a single factor.....if you feel good, just go into it....if you're banged up, take a light week, then start anew.

I also wanted to add that I'm glad you're doing well after the divorce. It is funny in life how things that seem to be the end of the world at a given time are really nothing that can't be overcome. From your other post, I gather you have young children, and being strong for them is much more important than beating yourself up over a failed relationship.

I want you to look how I base a lot of my routines to illustrate the progression and the increasing amount of work the body can handle. Coming off a layoff I have three main days that are my base...say, M-W-F.....on these days I will do a squat, a pull (DL or variation or olympic lift or variation), and a pressing movement for the shoulder girdle. I center around the squat and train it on a heavy-light-medium system with back squats on M-F and front squats in between. I do decline situps and back hypers after every workout.

Once I get my numbers where I find them respectable and I feel my body is capable of more work to keep progressing, I will do a routine like this.....still centered on the three main days, but I will train Tues also and do some extras....

Mon
Power Clean (I train all my olympic lifts with 5-10 sets of singles or doubles)
Back Squat (5x5, 2x8)
Flat Bench Press (5x5, 1x8)
Incline D-Bells (2x20)
Situps/Back Hypers

Tues
Power Snatch
Overhead Press (5x5)
Barbell Row (5x5)
Chins (3 sets)
Calf Raises (3x20)

Wed
Front Squat (5x3)
Deadlift or GM (5x5)
Incline Press (5x5)
Biceps/Triceps accessory
Decline Situps/Back Hypers

Thurs
Off

Fri
Back Squat (5 sets up to a 5 rm and then 2x8)
Jump Shrug (5x5)
Close-Grip Bench (4x8)
Barbell Row (5 sets up to a 5rm)
Hammer Curls (3x8)
Decline Situps/back Hypers

I will give you some background info. This is done dual factor, and I can usually tolerate 3-4 weeks like this before I need to deload. I usually eat around 6500-7000 calories a day during these periods and try to sleep a good 9 hrs a night, and when training all out like this I weigh around 255-260 at 5'11". I do NOT train like this year round, nor eat like this all year. Right now I weigh about 235 and am eating maybe 5000-5500 cals a day, looking to gradually increase and make my big run towards the end of the Fall through the Winter. I also do some running/sprinting twice a week. Your size is relative, I gave you my weight because it was appropriate since I was discussing calories. the rest of the year I do train dual factor unless i am coming from a layoff, I just don't run things up that crazy more than twice a year or so. I have trained like this both with and without steroids. Steroids make it more bearable, help recovery, etc, but the body is more of capable of this type of work drug free.

But I only use dual factor training because I need it in order to progress, if the single factor worked best for me forever, I'd do it, it is simpler....but I need to do this to keep moving.....I wanted to illustrate that what you do now, the 3 main days, the focus on squats is the building block......it will always be your base......when it stops working best for you, look into dual factor, but you've got plenty of time to gain on single factor programs.

BiggT, thanks for all the great input bro, I really appreciate it. I am trying to gain some size and strength, but for some reason, I have this phobia that if I shoot up my calories im just gonna pack on bodyfat, which I dont want to do. I think Ill go ahead and just keep going and milk what Im doing for as long as Im gaining, like you say, then maybe go over to all pyramid sets like the single factor. Your w/o looks pretty good. This one is about 1/3 of the volume I was training at and that is what had me so shredded, and STUCK! Ive got a pair of fatrack2 digital calipers, that are supposed to be real accurate and they put me at 3.5%. As with all skinfold testing I figure thats probably within 2 or 3 % of where I really am. Thanks again bro. If I get a chance I'll email you a pic or 2, or post them in the journal. BTW, Im 5'11'' also but my weight is about 155 depending on time of day.
Thanks again, I appreciate the tips.