So i think i am going to do the 5/3/1

[JDid23]

i just spent the last hour reading the 5/3/1 ebook and i liked it a lot.... I think I am going to give it a shot.

I am just wondering if something like this seems okay. According to Jim's 1RM calculator (i have never actually gotten 1RMs or even actual RMs for some lifts), i will be doing about (Weight x Reps x .0333 + Weight = Estimated 1RM is what he uses)

1RM/90% of 1RM

I am also rounding down on anything; example- if my estimated 90% of 1RM is 288, i round down to 285 because i can only increase increments by so much. My actual 1RM for military is 105x5, but i could barely do 110x1 yesterday so i am going to use 100x5.

Squat- 245/220
Deadlift- (will see based on tomorrow's workout but probably) 320/285 (rounding down from 288)
Bench- (also depends on tomorrow) 180/160
Military Press- 115/100


For assistance work, I am thinking about doing:
Squat day- Lunges, *pretty light* stiff legged deadlifts, calves, abs.
Deadlift day- Pullthroughs, *pretty light* front squats, Abs
Bench day- Flat DB Bench, DB Row, calves, CGBP
Military day- Dips, Chinups/Pullups, DB Skull crushers



How does this seem to you guys? Any advice or suggestions is more than welcome I've heard so many knowledgeable guys advocate this program and want to see firsthand how great it really is. Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[ExtraMile]

there is a typo in the book, that method for working out 1rm wont work, I think its meant to be 0.0333 instead of 0.333

 

[JDid23]

that's what i used

 

[bblazer]

I would say that it looks pretty good. But keep some things in mind. Assistance work is actually thought of as a group of exercises designed to improve the weak spots you have in the big three lifts. So for example, if you find that your squat is lacking because of weak hams, you would do work specifically to strengthen your hams, like GHRs, etc. So just make sure that your assistance work is work you need to do.

The other thing is that you need to keep just as good tracking of your assistance work as you do of your big 3 lifts. Those need to be improving as well, and are benchmarks for how you are progressing. One of the big things I ask people when they come complaining about their squat/bench/dead not moving is what is happening to their assistance work. More often than not, I get a deer in the headlights stare. God forbid I ask them why they are doing the assistance work they are doing in the first place. But that is another rant all together.

I think you will like the 5/3/1. Keep us posted on your progress.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

Yeah I will be very interested to see how it works out for you

 

[JDid23]

I would say that it looks pretty good. But keep some things in mind. Assistance work is actually thought of as a group of exercises designed to improve the weak spots you have in the big three lifts. So for example, if you find that your squat is lacking because of weak hams, you would do work specifically to strengthen your hams, like GHRs, etc. So just make sure that your assistance work is work you need to do.

The other thing is that you need to keep just as good tracking of your assistance work as you do of your big 3 lifts. Those need to be improving as well, and are benchmarks for how you are progressing. One of the big things I ask people when they come complaining about their squat/bench/dead not moving is what is happening to their assistance work. More often than not, I get a deer in the headlights stare. God forbid I ask them why they are doing the assistance work they are doing in the first place. But that is another rant all together.

I think you will like the 5/3/1. Keep us posted on your progress.

B-

Alright thanks man. I appreciate it and i'll definitely keep posted.

For the rep ranges for assistance work, i read that it's good to do 5x10-20.. should i stick in this rep range or do something more like 8-12? Or does it not matter as long as i am progressing?

 

[Tblock1]

Alright thanks man. I appreciate it and i'll definitely keep posted.

For the rep ranges for assistance work, i read that it's good to do 5x10-20.. should i stick in this rep range or do something more like 8-12? Or does it not matter as long as i am progressing?

This I think.

 

[bblazer]

Alright thanks man. I appreciate it and i'll definitely keep posted.

For the rep ranges for assistance work, i read that it's good to do 5x10-20.. should i stick in this rep range or do something more like 8-12? Or does it not matter as long as i am progressing?

Those rep ranges are in there to induce some hypertrophy and prehab after the strength phase of the workout. Notice that the weights are around 50% or less of 1RM.

B-

 

[JDid23]

Those rep ranges are in there to induce some hypertrophy and prehab after the strength phase of the workout. Notice that the weights are around 50% or less of 1RM.

B-

so is this optimal for assistance training?

Also, isn't prehab work that is done to prevent injuries? How would something like this be prehab?

 

[shibs]

Also, isn't prehab work that is done to prevent injuries? How would something like this be prehab?

low weight, low intensity to prepare your joints for the heavy stuff

 

[bblazer]

so is this optimal for assistance training?

Also, isn't prehab work that is done to prevent injuries? How would something like this be prehab?

In many cases yes. Sometimes, however, you may want to go heavy with your assistance work. Examples could be seated rows, or weighted dips. It all depends on the exercise.

That said, in the 5/3/1 example you may do 4x10x50% deadlifts after your work deadlift worksets. This would be considered a hypertrophy and/or prehad series.

B-

 

[JDid23]

ahh ok thanks. I think I might go heavy on weighted dips/weighted chins.

 

[ExtraMile]

I use differant rep ranges for differant exercises. An example would be I often do 20 rep sets for leg presses but never go above 8 reps per set of weighted dips, usually I do 5 rep sets of dips.

 

[JDid23]

woops. please look down 1 post

 

[JDid23]

This is what i came up with for assistance:

/ indicates a new week





















Military Day
Dips- BW- 3x5/3x6/3x7/3x2
Chinups + 10 lbs- 3x5/3x6/3x7
DB Skulls- 10 lb DBs- 3x12/3x15/3x20/3x10
Calves

Deadlift Day
Pullthroughs- 35 kg- 3x12/15/20/10
Front Squat- 65 lbs- 3x8/10/12/6
Abs

Bench Day
Flat DB Bench- 30 lb DBs- 3x12/15/20/10
DB Row- 30 lb DBs- 3x12/15/20/10
Calves

Squat Day
DB Lunges- 15 lb DBs- 3x12/15/20/8
SLDL- 65 lbs- 3x10/12/15/8
Abs

 

[Dial_tone]

I've started doing 5/3/1 for squat/deads this week...not really interested in pressing.

 

[bblazer]

Why did you pick those? I'm not saying they are wrong, but I would like to hear your thought process.

Are you willing to adjust them as needed should a "problem area" show up?

B-

 

[Tblock1]

I see that you have sort of a deload on the assistance exercises at week 4, but 3x2 for bodyweight dips? Not really seeing a point in that. Also, I thought you were doing the nelson mandela calve thing? Why working the calves twice per week? And why so low on front squats and sldl? You aren't going to get strength or hypertrophy going that light.

 

[JDid23]

Why did you pick those? I'm not saying they are wrong, but I would like to hear your thought process.

Are you willing to adjust them as needed should a "problem area" show up?

B-

I like to pick exercises i enjoy doing and ones that i feel will help me for the big lifts and also with some growth;

Dips/Chins i feel are 2 lifts that are great for the entire upper body and by not having them i'd be cheating myself. I chose DB Skulls for triceps because i enjoy the exercise and since i have been doing them i've seen some tricep growth.

Pullthroughs have been a nice assistance exercise for my deadlift for the last 2ish months and my deadlift has been progressing until recently. Front squats/SLDLs i chose to put on dead/squat day respectively because i don't want to do higher rep front squats after squats as it might be more fatiguing. They also hit my quads harder than any lift and same goes with SLDL when i had them in my routine for hamstrings. Lunges are also a great compound lift i haven't done in a while and want to get back to them.

Flat DB Bench i also thought would be a good supplement to my bench press, and rows will also hit my lats hard.

I have calves because i want bigger calves.... nothing really to do with helping each lift, but rather more for myself.



@Tblock- On the 4th week, everything is basically cut in half and more so i am taking it easy on every exercise including assistance. 1 day a week for calves hasn't been cutting it lately, and one of the reasons i posted up the weight was to get input. I was also thinking the weight on front squats was too light, but 65 lbs for 3x10 or however many i am doing seems like a good amount.

 

[bblazer]

Does your gym have a GHR?

Your front squat SLDL setup is almost exactly like what Brad Gillingham does.

On your bench day, I would really think about putting in some clean & press/jerk. They will help your speed off the ground for your deads, front and lateral delts, lats, and do a lot for overall coordination. Go heavy on these - to the point where you have no choice but to jerk and/or continental the weight to get it up. THis is really the forgotten exercise, and I can't tell you how much I have seen it help not only me, but nearly everyone I work out with and train.

It looks like you are headed down the right path. I really want to hear about your progress.

B-

 

[JDid23]

Does your gym have a GHR?

Your front squat SLDL setup is almost exactly like what Brad Gillingham does.

On your bench day, I would really think about putting in some clean & press/jerk. They will help your speed off the ground for your deads, front and lateral delts, lats, and do a lot for overall coordination. Go heavy on these - to the point where you have no choice but to jerk and/or continental the weight to get it up. THis is really the forgotten exercise, and I can't tell you how much I have seen it help not only me, but nearly everyone I work out with and train.

It looks like you are headed down the right path. I really want to hear about your progress.

B-

Unfortunately, there is no GHR at my gym. That's also pretty cool about the front squats/SLDLs- i had no idea haha. Do you think the weight i am using is too light in relation to my other lifts?

Regarding the C&J's, do you have any videos on them you would personally suggest? I got to a point where i was clean and jerking 130 for 2-3 reps, but then switched to just cleans and stuck with only 135 for a while. This is because i was always nervous about my form. I kind of stopped (pretty recent) adding weight after some douche tapped me on the shoulder when i was shrugging it up and the weight fell on my leg. Would doing these with DBs be sufficient for maybe 3x5 before bench/rows?

 

[bblazer]

Unfortunately, there is no GHR at my gym. That's also pretty cool about the front squats/SLDLs- i had no idea haha. Do you think the weight i am using is too light in relation to my other lifts?

Regarding the C&J's, do you have any videos on them you would personally suggest? I got to a point where i was clean and jerking 130 for 2-3 reps, but then switched to just cleans and stuck with only 135 for a while. This is because i was always nervous about my form. I kind of stopped (pretty recent) adding weight after some douche tapped me on the shoulder when i was shrugging it up and the weight fell on my leg. Would doing these with DBs be sufficient for maybe 3x5 before bench/rows?

Frankly, yes, I do. You should really try (based on your other numbers) to be doing at least 135 or as close to it as you can get.

Here is a good video of a C&J:



There is one scene in there were someone does a split clean - I don't agree with that. But the rest is pretty good stuff. And don't do them with DBs.

B-

 

[Tblock1]

Frankly, yes, I do. You should really try (based on your other numbers) to be doing at least 135 or as close to it as you can get.

Here is a good video of a C&J:



There is one scene in there were someone does a split clean - I don't agree with that. But the rest is pretty good stuff. And don't do them with DBs.

B-

Bblazer: What do you think of high pulls? I have been doing them recently and I feel like they help with my deadlift and just get me to be really explosive, I love jumping with weight!

 

[JDid23]

Ah alright. I definitely took the "light weight high rep" idea too litteraly. For front squats, I'll probably use 95 pounds and for SLDL i'll start with 115 since it's been a while.

for clean and jerks, would doing them from a hang clean give the same effect? I am guessing no..

 

[ExtraMile]

blazer would you say if he was squat catching the bar with his cleans that there was any point in also doing front squats in that workout? Obviously if he was doing a high catch or athletic catch then deep front squats would be a big change but if he has the flexbility to do a full squat catch at the top of his clean (not saying he has) would there be any point in doing more front squats in the same workout?

But I have no idea how jdid performs his cleans, I was just wondering, kinda off topic.

 

[bblazer]

Wow, lots of questions....

tblock - I don't think anything of high pulls. I never do them, see them done, or coach them. Its not that I think they are bad, just not in my bag of tricks.

jdid - This is an argument I have been having with the football coach. I do not believe that you get nearly the benefit from a hang clean as you do from ripping it off the floor. Without getting too deep, with the hang clean, your body is already under tension from the weight, and the distance you have to travel is shortened. If the bar is on the floor, you have to start the engagement of your whole body, and travel further.

EM - If he is catching the bar deep, then all he is getting is the stand up portion of the front squat. It would not be unlike someone putting a bar on your collar bone when you were in the hole then taking ti off when you stood. So I do not believe that it has enough "carryover" to replace the front squat or to be a repetitive exercise.

B-

 

[Dial_tone]

I love high pulls. My arms are too big to clean heavy so I high pull instead.

 

[Tblock1]

I love high pulls. My arms are too big to clean heavy so I high pull instead.

Yeah I like it because you don't have to worry about technique as much you can just explode lol! Glad to see there is someone else here who likes them

 

[ExtraMile]

I did highpulls before but dropped them cause it was taking to long to learn to the technique and I kept getting it wrong so they just annoyed me...

 

[Tblock1]

I did highpulls before but dropped them cause it was taking to long to learn to the technique and I kept getting it wrong so they just annoyed me...

Technique is really easy compared to power cleans, just grab the bar, deadlift it to your knees or so, then pretty much jump up powering the bar up, while doing a really hard shrug. The bar should get to at least nipple level, preferably higher.

High Pull

 

[Dial_tone]

http://www.cathletics.com/exercises/videos/snatchHighPull.mov

http://www.cathletics.com/exercises/videos/cleanHighPull.mov

 

[Tblock1]

http://www.cathletics.com/exercises/videos/snatchHighPull.mov

http://www.cathletics.com/exercises/videos/cleanHighPull.mov

Hmmm....I like to do them a lot more explosive than that though. I like to actually jump in the air to propel the weight up.

 

[ExtraMile]

No it doesnt come up to the nipple, it is the first part of a clean without racking it on your shoulders. I used to pull mine real high and hit myself in the chin once and slightly chipped a tooth but lots of people on here told me its the wrong way to do it cause I was using too much arms and not exploding from the floor. In the end I just got sick of it, Iv never been able to pull weight fast off the floor, Iv just never had power from there so I always found them hard. I guess I need to do some power pull like that though to solve it...

 

[bblazer]

No it doesnt come up to the nipple, it is the first part of a clean without racking it on your shoulders. I used to pull mine real high and hit myself in the chin once and slightly chipped a tooth but lots of people on here told me its the wrong way to do it cause I was using too much arms and not exploding from the floor. In the end I just got sick of it, Iv never been able to pull weight fast off the floor, Iv just never had power from there so I always found them hard. I guess I need to do some power pull like that though to solve it...

Doing your deadlifts standing on a 3" box and/or using bands will help your speed off the floor.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

Doing your deadlifts standing on a 3" box and/or using bands will help your speed off the floor.

B-

I tryed deficit's before, but I was doing deads, deficit deads, romanian deads, weighted hypers and squats all in a period of 9 days and I think I was getting a little over trained.

Also I found it hard to maintain an arch in my back with the bar so low.

About the bands though, I dont have any and its stupidly expensive to buy then from elite fts and get them shipped over here, but I have been told that as a beginner I dont need to use bands, but wuold you disagree? And what do you think to dynamic deads?

 

[bblazer]

I tryed deficit's before, but I was doing deads, deficit deads, romanian deads, weighted hypers and squats all in a period of 9 days and I think I was getting a little over trained.

Also I found it hard to maintain an arch in my back with the bar so low.

About the bands though, I dont have any and its stupidly expensive to buy then from elite fts and get them shipped over here, but I have been told that as a beginner I dont need to use bands, but wuold you disagree? And what do you think to dynamic deads?

OK, if you were getting overtrained before, why not knock out all that stuff and just do deficits for 6 weeks and see what happens? K.I.S.S.

And if you want bands, I would be happy to ship some over to you, just PM your address and they are on the way. I literally have more than a big garbage bag of them. BTW, whoever told you not to use them was wrong. If you have problems with speed off the floor, how can you beat deficits and bands? Especially bands? In order to get the bar to lockout, you have to rip that god damn bar up and "beat" the bands tension or you are screwed.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

OK, if you were getting overtrained before, why not knock out all that stuff and just do deficits for 6 weeks and see what happens? K.I.S.S.

And if you want bands, I would be happy to ship some over to you, just PM your address and they are on the way. I literally have more than a big garbage bag of them. BTW, whoever told you not to use them was wrong. If you have problems with speed off the floor, how can you beat deficits and bands? Especially bands? In order to get the bar to lockout, you have to rip that god damn bar up and "beat" the bands tension or you are screwed.

B-

I will send you a pm in a while Im about to eat then head off to the gym. That is a really kind offer, thanks!

Actually, deficits were the only thing that ever made me get through this plateau I hit in my first 6 months of training. I got up to 242x6 but couldnt get past it, tryed everything - deloads, lower reps, higher reps, deloaded again, took a week off etc. The only thing that got me through it was deficit pulls from 15kg plates (probably the same size as 35's)

But instead this time I dropped the deficits, mainly because my gym got rid of the boxes I used to stand on and instead I had to stand on a couple of plates which were real wobbly under my feet. But also because I was seeing some size gains from weighted hypers and I enjoy doing them.

Where you suggesting I replaced my normal deadlifts with deficit pulls?

 

[Tblock1]

No it doesnt come up to the nipple, it is the first part of a clean without racking it on your shoulders. I used to pull mine real high and hit myself in the chin once and slightly chipped a tooth but lots of people on here told me its the wrong way to do it cause I was using too much arms and not exploding from the floor. In the end I just got sick of it, Iv never been able to pull weight fast off the floor, Iv just never had power from there so I always found them hard. I guess I need to do some power pull like that though to solve it...

Bro high pulls should be to your nipples at LEAST, preferably to your neck, otherwise you arent doing a full pull and can't count it as such.

 

[b fold the truth]

Can't add much more than what B Blazer has already said... Just keep it simple, change when needed, monitor progress...and sleep and eat like crazy!

 

[JDid23]

hey guys... just curious: how important do you find the deload week to be? Even though I am not too experienced, I never really deloaded or took a break besides when going on vacation and it didn't seem to effect my progress. My workouts also consisted of a lot more volume than the 5/3/1.

I am going to follow the program the way it was designed, just wanted to get some input. Thanks.

 

[bblazer]

hey guys... just curious: how important do you find the deload week to be? Even though I am not too experienced, I never really deloaded or took a break besides when going on vacation and it didn't seem to effect my progress. My workouts also consisted of a lot more volume than the 5/3/1.

I am going to follow the program the way it was designed, just wanted to get some input. Thanks.

It is VERY important.

Eventually.

I know that I couldn't train at the levels I do without a deload or a week off about every 6-8 weeks.

If you are young, you recover faster and more easily. After about age 22-25 things are a little tougher, and get worse from there.

B-

 

[b fold the truth]

If you are young, you recover faster and more easily. After about age 22-25 things are a little tougher, and get worse from there.

B-

You also become MUCH stronger (hopefully) after the age of 25 and with years and years of training. Heavier weights require more and more rest time.

I never feel that I need the deload week till I skip it, do the 5's, then crash again on the 3's...then wish I'd deloaded.

 

[JDid23]

You also become MUCH stronger (hopefully) after the age of 25 and with years and years of training. Heavier weights require more and more rest time.

I never feel that I need the deload week till I skip it, do the 5's, then crash again on the 3's...then wish I'd deloaded.

I am not performing at nearly the same level as you and bblazer, but shit today i did 255x11 on deadlifts and after that set i realized why the deload week is so important.

 

[b fold the truth]

It gives me such a mental break as well. The pressure that I feel on my week of 5's, 3's, and 1's on deads and squats is tough mentally. Having 1 week from 4 that I can relax is nice. You don't have to total deload on all your exercises though...you can still hit your GHR's hard, abs, etc... If you want to...

255 x 11...sounds like it is time to re-estimate your 1RM!!! 255x11 x 0.0333 + 255 = 348.4, or more in my opinion. Nice freaking job!

 

[JDid23]

It gives me such a mental break as well. The pressure that I feel on my week of 5's, 3's, and 1's on deads and squats is tough mentally. Having 1 week from 4 that I can relax is nice. You don't have to total deload on all your exercises though...you can still hit your GHR's hard, abs, etc... If you want to...

255 x 11...sounds like it is time to re-estimate your 1RM!!! 255x11 x 0.0333 + 255 = 348.4, or more in my opinion. Nice freaking job!

yeah thanks man. Do u think that's an accurate prediction of my 1rm? I know u haven't seen me train and other stuff but 348 seems like a hell of a lot for lighter weight and higher reps.

 

[b fold the truth]

I'm bad at high reps. Today I did box squats.
673 x 5. I probably had 1-2 more safe reps in me.

Lets say 7 was possible, which equals a 830 1RM
2 weeks ago I did a very solid and easy 800 x 2 AFTER my 5/3/1 sets which is a 853 1RM.

But that is me. I'm better with low low low reps as long as my form is perfect (as I can be anyway).

What you can do is take your current estimate and what the reps estimate it as and split the difference to use as your new 1RM estimate. You can also finish the 3 and 1 week to see how your strength CURVES and compare all of those rep max predictions.

IN MY OPINION you don't have to do more than 7-8 on your 5's week or 5 on your 3's week, or 2-3 on your 1 week. I like to have some left in the tank, but I don't have great recovery abilities either. We progress over time, not by training to failure. Strength is BUILT over time, not a set or three.

Does that make any sense at all? I'm tired and greatly over worked and underpaid today.

 

[ExtraMile]

To add to what b fold said muscle fibre type comes into it too, for example someone who is very slow twitch dominant may get 255x11 and only have a 1rm of 295 but someone who is very fast twitch dominant may be able to do 255x11 and have a 1rm of 380, close to100lbs higher than the other person.

I find my triceps to be very fast twitch dominant and it is always my tri's which give out on high rep pressing, I can do weighted dips with 45lbs on a belt for 4 reps but struggle to break into double figures with bodyweight. At one point I managed dips with an extra 36lbs for 8 reps and still could only manage 11 reps with bodyweight...

I think when b fold said he is bad with high reps he meant he is more fast twitch dominant so his numbers jump up alot when he lowers the reps and that is why he may find rep max calculators to be a bad estimate of his max

correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[b fold the truth]

To add to what b fold said muscle fibre type comes into it too, for example someone who is very slow twitch dominant may get 255x11 and only have a 1rm of 295 but someone who is very fast twitch dominant may be able to do 255x11 and have a 1rm of 380, close to100lbs higher than the other person.

I find my triceps to be very fast twitch dominant and it is always my tri's which give out on high rep pressing, I can do weighted dips with 45lbs on a belt for 4 reps but struggle to break into double figures with bodyweight. At one point I managed dips with an extra 36lbs for 8 reps and still could only manage 11 reps with bodyweight...

I think when b fold said he is bad with high reps he meant he is more fast twitch dominant so his numbers jump up alot when he lowers the reps and that is why he may find rep max calculators to be a bad estimate of his max

correct me if I'm wrong...

I think that a lot of people who move BIG weights have issues with higher reps. Not sure how much the fiber type really comes into play (yet I've always had issues with reps, even when I could only bench 225 x 3) so maybe you have a point. Technique comes into play big when you are talking about low reps and if you have ANY weaknesses, the heavy weights will find them.

But you make a GREAT point...probably correct! I also have very lean legs (cross striations and veins) yet not huge. My upper body is MUCH bigger than my legs yet I'm very weak at all pressing exercises. Who knows?

Everyone has to find a way to make the rep estimations work for them. In a few weeks he can really figure out his estimations better. Would help if we knew what he got on his 3's and 1's and what he estimated his 1RM at.

 

[ExtraMile]

I think that a lot of people who move BIG weights have issues with higher reps. Not sure how much the fiber type really comes into play (yet I've always had issues with reps, even when I could only bench 225 x 3) so maybe you have a point. Technique comes into play big when you are talking about low reps and if you have ANY weaknesses, the heavy weights will find them.

But you make a GREAT point...probably correct! I also have very lean legs (cross striations and veins) yet not huge. My upper body is MUCH bigger than my legs yet I'm very weak at all pressing exercises. Who knows?

Everyone has to find a way to make the rep estimations work for them. In a few weeks he can really figure out his estimations better. Would help if we knew what he got on his 3's and 1's and what he estimated his 1RM at.

I would be suprised if you were more fast twitch dominant, fast twitch fibres have a much better size and strength potential than small twitch fibres, and you are both strong and big...

And I agree with form, while long sets with lots of reps can cause breakdown of form, if there is anything wrong with his technique it will show when he is working with 1-3 rep weights...

 

[JDid23]

Yeah bfold- made sense and so did EM- thanks.

 

[JDid23]

Hey guys- i know that one should never stray from the way a program is designed because it's designed the way it is for a reason. However, I am really contemplating skipping the deload week for my first 5/3/1 cycle because of the way my schedule is between school/going away. I want to have my 1RMs by June 3rd after my 2nd 5/3/1 cycle, but at this rate i won't be able to get them at if i follow the program.

Does the following seem like a good idea (for my situation)?

I will skip this deload week, and not deload until my 7th week on the program as i don't feel warn out whatsoever and i am still not using weights that are too heavy for me. Then, I will follow the cycle with the deload week for my 2nd one, and after the week of taking it easy, I will go for my 1RMs, leaving me enough time and rest to get all of them as opposed to cramming it in over a 3-4 day span if i were to do the deload this week.

I know that in the scheme of things this means nothing, but i will have been lifting for 7 months at the end of May and really want to find out my 1RMs before i go away.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[bblazer]

You should be OK.

B-

 

[JDid23]

k thanks. just wanted to make sure something like this wouldn't negatively effect my training. I've made great strides so far and can't wait to see what happens this summer when i should have more time for keeping my diet in check

 

[b fold the truth]

Should be ok...but WHY is it so important to do the week of 5/3/1's? That is by far my EASIEST week. You are not doing a 1RM anyway...you are hitting 95% x 1 rep+.

You estimate your maxes every week though...based off the reps you get with your 5's and 3's.

 

[JDid23]

Should be ok...but WHY is it so important to do the week of 5/3/1's? That is by far my EASIEST week. You are not doing a 1RM anyway...you are hitting 95% x 1 rep+.

You estimate your maxes every week though...based off the reps you get with your 5's and 3's.

Well I am not too tired yet and i also want to see if my 3 weeks of reps coincide with each other to equal around the same 1RM.

Also, I know about the estimates, but I have never actually tested my 1RMs and it's just something i really want to do.

 

[b fold the truth]

Well I am not too tired yet and i also want to see if my 3 weeks of reps coincide with each other to equal around the same 1RM.

Also, I know about the estimates, but I have never actually tested my 1RMs and it's just something i really want to do.

Maybe it is my age talking here...but there is a difference between "want" and "need". Or maybe I've been married too long

 

[JDid23]

Maybe it is my age talking here...but there is a difference between "want" and "need". Or maybe I've been married too long

haha- i know i don't "need to", but i really "want to"... I still train primarily for enjoyment and finding my 1RMs would give me a lot of enjoyment

 

[JDid23]

thanks to everyone for all the help!!! my first mesocycle went really well- here's a copy/paste of what i posted in my log:::

alright, well after my first cycle, here is what my numbers indicate for my estimated 1RMs:

Military Press: 110-115 (i stopped 1-2 reps before failure and i am using somewhat light weight, so it will hopefully be a bit higher)

Deadlift: 320-350 (240x10/255x11/270x8)

Bench Press: 170-175 (not including the 150x1 which i think/hope was a fluke)

Squat: 255-265 (most consistent @ 185x12/200x9/210x8)


Here is what i am bringing 90% of my estimated 1RM to next time:
- Military from 100 to 105
- Deadlift from 270 to 280
- Bench from 150 to 155
- Squat from 210 to 225 (i want to see how much i can squat with 2 plates on the bar- if it's too hard i'll only go up 5 next time)


Feel free to comment/make suggestions on my log guys!! Here's the link;
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/working-new-routine-650759-88.html

 

[JDid23]

hm. I don't feel like my bench press has improved much during 5/3/1, but all my other lifts have definitely gotten much stronger. I am thinking of switching up my assistance exercises on bench day which are currently:

DB Row
DB Bench
Calves
CGBP

TO

BB Row (maybe more of a carryover into working my lats with a barbell since i find it kind of hard to activate them during a regular bench even with the arched back) possibly supersetted with inverted rows.
1 Arm DB Clean/Press- would be too hard to do on military day and i feel the same about dips on bench day from past experience. I heard that these help strengthen the RC a hell of a lot and really work your CNS- this might be a really stupid comment but i remember reading it somewhere.

and leaving calves/cgbp how they are.

 

[bblazer]

hm. I don't feel like my bench press has improved much during 5/3/1, but all my other lifts have definitely gotten much stronger. I am thinking of switching up my assistance exercises on bench day which are currently:

DB Row
DB Bench
Calves
CGBP

TO

BB Row (maybe more of a carryover into working my lats with a barbell since i find it kind of hard to activate them during a regular bench even with the arched back) possibly supersetted with inverted rows.
1 Arm DB Clean/Press- would be too hard to do on military day and i feel the same about dips on bench day from past experience. I heard that these help strengthen the RC a hell of a lot and really work your CNS- this might be a really stupid comment but i remember reading it somewhere.

and leaving calves/cgbp how they are.

You need to remember that you will always get the lowest percentage gains from your bench work.

I have been working a lot with Wendler as it relates to the HS team I coach and the 5/3/1. He has told me that he has seen the best success if the bench portion of the cycle is repeated several times (3 or more) without touching the weight numbers. So if your 1 RM is 225 leave it there for 3 cycles, then retest it. You should see a bigger jump then. Again, according to Jim, this is even more true for girs as they have very weak upper bodies as a rule.

I graphed the progress of my team. We did retest after each cycle and with only a couple exceptions the bench was the lowest gains, and in one case remained relatively flat with only a 10 lb increase over 5 cycles (this was a girl). The cases were we had abnormally high gains I think can be contributed to specific changes in form thanks to Jason Christus' help in one of our mini-seminars I put together with several of the big lifters in the area.

This is not to say that the program is flawed - its not. You are just dealing with an exercise that has the hardest gain potential when measured over time. Remember, you are dealing with a lot of smaller muscles (except for the pec), whereas with the DL and squat, you are training some of the biggest muscle groups in the body.

B-

 

[JDid23]

You need to remember that you will always get the lowest percentage gains from your bench work.

I have been working a lot with Wendler as it relates to the HS team I coach and the 5/3/1. He has told me that he has seen the best success if the bench portion of the cycle is repeated several times (3 or more) without touching the weight numbers. So if your 1 RM is 225 leave it there for 3 cycles, then retest it. You should see a bigger jump then. Again, according to Jim, this is even more true for girs as they have very weak upper bodies as a rule.

I graphed the progress of my team. We did retest after each cycle and with only a couple exceptions the bench was the lowest gains, and in one case remained relatively flat with only a 10 lb increase over 5 cycles (this was a girl). The cases were we had abnormally high gains I think can be contributed to specific changes in form thanks to Jason Christus' help in one of our mini-seminars I put together with several of the big lifters in the area.

This is not to say that the program is flawed - its not. You are just dealing with an exercise that has the hardest gain potential when measured over time. Remember, you are dealing with a lot of smaller muscles (except for the pec), whereas with the DL and squat, you are training some of the biggest muscle groups in the body.

B-

really? lowest from bench as opposed to military? Is there any reason for that?

That's sick that you work with wendler man- that definitely makes sense and since i am not really progressing too well in bench i think i am going to stick with that suggestion of keeping the weights the same.

As far as assistance goes, do you think that switching from DB Rows/DB Bench to BB Rows/1 arm clean/jerk can have any potential benefit on my bench?

thanks.

 

[bblazer]

really? lowest from bench as opposed to military? Is there any reason for that?

That's sick that you work with wendler man- that definitely makes sense and since i am not really progressing too well in bench i think i am going to stick with that suggestion of keeping the weights the same.

As far as assistance goes, do you think that switching from DB Rows/DB Bench to BB Rows/1 arm clean/jerk can have any potential benefit on my bench?

thanks.

Yes, military progressed more as a percentage.

Just for clarification, I do not work with Wendler in the traditional sense - as in I am not employed by EliteFTS. We speak regularly and have spent a lot of time studying the effects of 5/3/1 on my athletes. To his knowledge my team is the first HS powerlifting team to use his program as the basis for their work.

Before you make the switch in assistance work you need to answer two questions.

1) When you were tracking your assistance work, was it progressing?

2) If you answered yes to #1 then what have you determined to be your weak spot in the lift. If it has not progressed, then something else is wrong.

Remember that assistance work is there to do two things. First it is supposed to work on the segmented or smaller parts of the main lift to make it bigger. Second it is used to work on sticking points to the main lift and/or identify problem areas. For example, a box squat can be used to attack the glutes specifically, or determine if someone is a quad dominant squatter (knees come way forward out of the hole), hamstring weakness (they fall on the box), or if the are glutteal deficient (can use their ass to drive off the box).

B-

 

[JDid23]

Yes, military progressed more as a percentage.

Just for clarification, I do not work with Wendler in the traditional sense - as in I am not employed by EliteFTS. We speak regularly and have spent a lot of time studying the effects of 5/3/1 on my athletes. To his knowledge my team is the first HS powerlifting team to use his program as the basis for their work.

Before you make the switch in assistance work you need to answer two questions.

1) When you were tracking your assistance work, was it progressing?

2) If you answered yes to #1 then what have you determined to be your weak spot in the lift. If it has not progressed, then something else is wrong.

Remember that assistance work is there to do two things. First it is supposed to work on the segmented or smaller parts of the main lift to make it bigger. Second it is used to work on sticking points to the main lift and/or identify problem areas. For example, a box squat can be used to attack the glutes specifically, or determine if someone is a quad dominant squatter (knees come way forward out of the hole), hamstring weakness (they fall on the box), or if the are glutteal deficient (can use their ass to drive off the box).

B-

1. Yes, but i was doing pretty light weight for higher reps and i knew i would progress without much trouble each week.
2. Idk. I think that i need to utilize my lats/legs more in the bench, and strengthen my shoulders a bit more since military pressing is virtually the only direct lift i do for shoulders. That's why i am thinking of 1 arm clean/press.

 

[ExtraMile]

wierd, my bench progresses well and has done for a long while, ever since I injured my shoulder when I came back, although I used a few differant bench styles each one I had good progress with.

 

[JDid23]

Hey guys- progress on my deadlift, squat, and military have been fantastic! Quick question:


Squats on Sunday- Hopefully, my quad will feel up to squatting...... Sunday will be my last day before entering deload week. However, I will be in Canada from Friday-Monday (getting back at like 4:00 AM) so i don't think i'll be able to lift unless the hotel i am staying at has a gym


Is it okay to combine deload days next week? Tuesday Military/Deadlift and Thursday Bench/Squat?? Then go into finding my 1RMs starting tuesday?

 

[ExtraMile]

this is a great thread jdid!

 

[b fold the truth]

Hey guys- progress on my deadlift, squat, and military have been fantastic! Quick question:


Squats on Sunday- Hopefully, my quad will feel up to squatting...... Sunday will be my last day before entering deload week. However, I will be in Canada from Friday-Monday (getting back at like 4:00 AM) so i don't think i'll be able to lift unless the hotel i am staying at has a gym


Is it okay to combine deload days next week? Tuesday Military/Deadlift and Thursday Bench/Squat?? Then go into finding my 1RMs starting tuesday?

I think that you can deload in about any fashion that you want, as long as it is NOT taxing on your body.

Finding your 1RM's on Tuesday? Again...I'm lost as to why you are looking for a 1RM?

 

[JDid23]

I think that you can deload in about any fashion that you want, as long as it is NOT taxing on your body.

Finding your 1RM's on Tuesday? Again...I'm lost as to why you are looking for a 1RM?

Oh i mean this week (starting tuesday) is my deload week. I am going to Canada from Friday-Monday, so i will be missing 2 sessions (bench and squat).

Also, I have never gotten my actual 1RMs before, and it's something I really want to do to see where i am at.

 

[Tblock1]

Oh i mean this week (starting tuesday) is my deload week. I am going to Canada from Friday-Monday, so i will be missing 2 sessions (bench and squat).

Also, I have never gotten my actual 1RMs before, and it's something I really want to do to see where i am at.

hey jdid i have been wondering why don't you have an avatar?

 

[JDid23]

hey jdid i have been wondering why don't you have an avatar?

i actually just tried to put it in but it didnt work

 

[ark94]

Omg your coming to canada!!! haha where abouts you going?

 

[JDid23]

Toronto.

 

[ark94]

Toronto.

holy shit, for what?!!

i live 45minute-1hour south of Toronto. not far at all

just aside from that, if you don't mind me asking, whats your weight now?

 

[JDid23]

holy shit, for what?!!

i live 45minute-1hour south of Toronto. not far at all

just aside from that, if you don't mind me asking, whats your weight now?

I am Jewish so i am going up for my cousins bar mitzvah lol.

that's awesome! when i find out the name of the hotel i'll PM you- feel free to drop by if you're in the neighborhood

I think i weigh around 167ish..... Over the summer I am probably going to start running, complexes, and making my assistance work geared more towards hypertrophy.

 

[b fold the truth]

Everytime I go for a new real max...I do it on my singles week. Instead of doing a set of 5, then 3, then 1+...I just do singles and depending on how my 95% felt, I'll decide what weight to pull after that for a "new max".

But, again, if you are just pulling for a new 1RM JUST TO DO IT...you are wasting a week of TRAINING.

 

[ExtraMile]

Yeah I see going for maxes kind of pointless unless this happened: say your progressing with 5 reps sets for several weeks or even months, adding 5lbs each week and then one week you only get 4 reps, the next week you get 4 or even 3 well then you see that your started to stall and the progression has caught up on you. At that point I would test my new 1RM then deload.

But if your in the middle of progression (which you are) then whats the point, the way I would see it is that it just tells you what you could lift that week, but then when you think about it, if you went for your max 7 or 9 days later then you would pull possible 5lbs more if that is the rate of progression that your going at and so your 1rm or best lift would be even higher.

Especially when your young and new to the sport like you (and I) are then you can keep up a pretty quick rate of progression so it doesnt really make sense to risk messing up the progression and missing a week of progress just to test what you can do for a 1RM...

 

[JDid23]

Yeah I see going for maxes kind of pointless unless this happened: say your progressing with 5 reps sets for several weeks or even months, adding 5lbs each week and then one week you only get 4 reps, the next week you get 4 or even 3 well then you see that your started to stall and the progression has caught up on you. At that point I would test my new 1RM then deload.

But if your in the middle of progression (which you are) then whats the point, the way I would see it is that it just tells you what you could lift that week, but then when you think about it, if you went for your max 7 or 9 days later then you would pull possible 5lbs more if that is the rate of progression that your going at and so your 1rm or best lift would be even higher.

Especially when your young and new to the sport like you (and I) are then you can keep up a pretty quick rate of progression so it doesnt really make sense to risk messing up the progression and missing a week of progress just to test what you can do for a 1RM...

Hey guys- i know that one should never stray from the way a program is designed because it's designed the way it is for a reason. However, I am really contemplating skipping the deload week for my first 5/3/1 cycle because of the way my schedule is between school/going away. I want to have my 1RMs by June 3rd after my 2nd 5/3/1 cycle, but at this rate i won't be able to get them at if i follow the program.

Does the following seem like a good idea (for my situation)?

I will skip this deload week, and not deload until my 7th week on the program as i don't feel warn out whatsoever and i am still not using weights that are too heavy for me. Then, I will follow the cycle with the deload week for my 2nd one, and after the week of taking it easy, I will go for my 1RMs, leaving me enough time and rest to get all of them as opposed to cramming it in over a 3-4 day span if i were to do the deload this week.

I know that in the scheme of things this means nothing, but i will have been lifting for 7 months at the end of May and really want to find out my 1RMs before i go away.

Any ideas? Thanks.

(Page 6 of log) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Even if this isn't optimal, I train for enjoyment and I really want to find my 1RMs.

 

[b fold the truth]

"I know that in the scheme of things this means nothing, but i will have been lifting for 7 months at the end of May and really want to find out my 1RMs before i go away."

I guess that's just where we differ. I look at the year and the years in my training cycles as much more important as the last 7 months. But I'd have a fair IDEA of what my maxes were after 7 months of training on a program as well.