Work Ethic vs. Genetic Potential

[needsleep]

The more I eat, and the harder I lift, the better my genetics seem to get.

I like that.

 

[bigp3]

I never said that anyone could be Mr Olympia, but I bet that many of the top pro and top amatuers out there could be but they just don't work hard enough. I bet almost anyone could at their very lease be the biggest guy in their gym.

later,,

P

 

[needsize]

Genetics definitely play a role in how far you can go. I've completely lived this lifestyle for over a decade now, and know exactly where my genetics left off. For 7 years of natural training I gave it my everything and continued to make gains every year, small but still gains. At year 7 I hit a plateau. For the next 3 years I tried every training approach and nutritional plan that I could find, and did not gain a pound. And anyone that has seen me train or has seen my videos knows that intensity is not in question, I just hit a wall that could not be overcome naturally.

So then after substantial research, I went to the darkside and did a cycle. Well I blew right past where I was stuck. For the next year I continued to make decent gains. Then I hit another wall, and despite any number of changes to my training, diet, and cycles, my progress pretty much came to a halt again. Why....genetics. Anyone who has seen the pics I posted on my "dieting blues" thread know I've stacked a lot of muscle on my frame, well past what nature intended.

But for me its not enough, so I'll continue to beat my head against the wall that is genetics, but I dont buy for a second that my lack of progress has anything to do with a lack of heart.....

 

[guldukat]

Okay this is my rant for this week,,, lol.

That's cool

I keep hearing genetics this genetics that. It seems to be a common thread for everyone to blame their lack of success in the iron game. Well, I tell you what. I don’t buy into this whole fucking thing that one in a million people have the genetics to make it pro in bodybuilding.

While I sympathize with your frustration--and I agree that too many people whine about their genetics when they should be working harder--there ARE a lot of hard-working bodybuilders who will never be a zit on Dorian Yates' ass, no matter how hard they try or what they use.

At some point, genetics are unavoidably responsible for many champions.

Have you ever noticed that people whom are successful in life always excel at everything they do no matter what it may be. Arnold is a prime example of this.

Absolutely Arnold is an inspiration.

Now, I would contend that he DID have superior genetics in some respects. For example, his recovery ability was off the charts, and his size-to-strength ratio was extremely favorable: he had thicker pecs than almost every pro before, then, and since, in spite of the fact that many pros could easily outlift him in bench presses and the like.

This needn't be a dichotomy...one could have an incredible drive and work ethic, yet still have some genetic gifts too.

Have you ever noticed that there are guys that are pro athletes that in no way are physically gifted enough to play the sport. Earl Boynkins, guard for the Golden State Warriors is a prime example.

Yes, but I think you're forgetting that Boynkins might be even better if he was taller; i.e., more genetically-gifted, so long as he continued to work like a scalded dog.

Find some pics of the top twelve guys in the Olympia during their first couple of years of lifting. I would bet that 10 of those twelve looked just like fifty other guys that are working out at your gym right now.

Indeed.

Dorian's and Paul Dillett's appearances before training were particularly unremarkable.

Still, I think you're setting yourself up for a false dilemma here: genetics involve more than "where you start out," so to speak. In bodybuilding, genetics are also about responsiveness to training, recovery ability, glycogen storage, structure, storage of subcutaneous vs. intestinal fat, responsiveness to juice, AND how muscular you are from initiation of training, what I would actually consider the least important of the bunch.

Look at Dorian Yates when he started. He was cut, had okay symmetry and was 180 or so pounds. Nothing to make heads turn, just like most of us lifters out there. The difference here between Dorian and the average Joe at the gym is Dorian kept plugging away. He gave his best effort 365 days a year and he did this year after year. He did not go hard for a couple of months and then slack off for the next few. He was consistent and always moving foreword. So many people get psyched up and work there asses off for a little while then slack back up. You have to keep that intensity going year round.

Dorian's a beast, but I think he also had exceptional genetics...on a scale to 10, I'd give him at least an 8.5, detracting points ONLY for structure.

Think about it. There are plenty of guys who've done similar quantities of drugs and trained just as hard (or harder...frankly, I thought Dorian left some in the tank with some of his sets to "failure" in Blood and Guts), yet they'd never be 5'10", 265 shredded.

It's Dorian's weird structure that throws people, like the attachment of his biceps. But it's true, he didn't start out a monster...he was simply gifted enough that his hard work yielded much greater results, faster, than those his contemporaries experienced.

Okay, I am a realist here. I do realize that not everyone can win the Olympia due to issues of how your muscles are put together. Yes, you are right this is genetic in nature. Your overall shape is pretty well set by your genetics. Don’t give up hope though. This does not mean you can’t overcome a lot. Look at pictures of Arnold when he was first starting out. Did he have have a massive peak on his Biceps? Nope! He built that over time with dedication, work and persistence.

I dunno, man. Inside of 2-3 years he had pretty fricking incredible arms, and by 18 or 19, he was a flat-out machine. Rate of progression is also genetic, so if he didn't start out huge he sure as hell got there fast. (Besides, a young Arnold wasn't that small. He was in better shape than most 15 year olds, IIRC.)

That indicates some powerful genetics on his side (though I'd agree Arnold's greatest gifts were largely limited to his pecs, biceps and calves), especially since most agree that Arnold overtrained hard-core.

Okay, what point am I trying to get across? I say that the rare person who makes it to the very top of anything is the one that has an unstoppable work ethic, not genetics or whatever else.

I see that dichotomy again.

I think it's all of the above. Short of fixing the contest, you've got to have a full deck to win the Olympia. Hard work alone won't get you there, as we've seen a number of pros bust their tails with massive weights who didn't win any show.

Genetics alone won't let you consistently win, either, as evident by Flex Wheeler's difficulties in the last 8 years.

But you take someone who IS genetically gifted, like Ronnie Coleman, who also busts his ass in the gym, and you've got a sure-fire champ.

How many people do you guys know that you say to yourself “Only if they applied themselves”? This guy is in every gym on every basketball court, baseball field, etc in America right now. I think everyone for the most part has the genetics to be the biggest guy at their gym at the very least and possibly a top amateur or more.

Being the biggest guy at their gym is possible, depending on the circumstances. A hard-working natural with terrible genetics will NEVER surpass a very gifted, heavily juiced bodybuilder who doesn't work all that hard.

But top amateurs? No way. I truly mean no offense, but I think that's far too idealistic. Most people would be lucky to look much meater than a rack of bones onstage, at least in true contest condition, unless you gave them well over 15 years to build themselves up.

Even then, we're looking at local-level "good" for the vast majority of people. Otherwise, the bigger NPC shows would be flooded superheavyweight classes, filled with huge, ripped guys, which said classes are certainly not. Top amateur-level guys no. in the dozens at a given moment, certainly not more than 100-200 out of a training population of millions.

You can’t change your genetics but you can change your work ethic. So, get off your asses and work hard year after year and you will be surprised at what happens!!! This applies to not only to the gym but to life in general.

That's a good maxim to live by 99% of the time, I think: always re-examine how hard you're working.

Or better yet: always take a close look to see if what you're doing is WORKING. You can oftentimes work too hard.

That's always been my problem. I can't restrain myself in the gym. I just want to go apeshit, so far beyond failure that I can't budge empty bars. I don't do that, but I've never been one to shy away from a challenge. If it's there, a part of me wants to take it on.

 

[guldukat]

I never said that anyone could be Mr Olympia, but I bet that many of the top pro and top amatuers out there could be but they just don't work hard enough. I bet almost anyone could at their very lease be the biggest guy in their gym.

later,,

P

Now, that I agree with

That's a good bit different than what you said earlier. It sounded as if you were talking about, well, literally "everyone."

I fully agree that there are a plethora of top pros and amateurs who are just flat-out LAZY.

Paul Dillett is a perfect example. The guy's got structure from the planet Vulcan or something...it's like a cross between Robocop, a Terminator, and the Frankenstein Monster. He can get very ripped and dry when he tries hard enough, has awesome legs, good abs with a small waist, HUGE delts and arms--nearly the whole shebang.

But then he turns around. His back looks like something you might find on a water-retaining middleweight at a local show, it's so weak and poorly defined.

He is simply too lazy to do hard back work.

I really like Paul, but he oughta be kicking himself, as he could EASILY have been Mr. Olympia by now if he'd worked as hard as Ronnie or Dorian did.

Same said for Flex Wheeler, another great who spent too much time pumping and playing. He should've been going for that 500 lbs. incline press, 750 lbs. deadlift, and 700 lbs. squat, clawing tooth and nail to try and get there. He would've whipped Ronnie at two or more Mr. Os if he'd been the same kind of worker.

You could extend that to Kevin Levrone and Shawn Ray also.

If I was in any of their shoes I would not let such God-given talent go to waste.