Women and arimidex

[Realgains]

are you sure you want to proceed with this line of rhetoric?

becuase you are incorrect..

the testes do not produce estrogen.. estrogen in males is produced solely through aromatization.. if you would like to discuss this with an endocrinologist.. i can reccomend one.. however this is an issue of basic physiology.

the reason that hcg is associated with gynocomastia (for good reason) is for the reasons outlined above.

note- there may be some enzymatic caveats to the solely.. maybe..

btw- this is a common myth.. for the reasons I have outline above..

Macro the testes do produce small amounts of estradiol bro and not just testosterone. When you give a large enough dose of H C G not only will te testes put out a ton of testosterone but estradiol levels really do jump....please ...I don't want to get into a piss ass fight with you but you are wrong this time Marcro. Why don't you ask an endochrinologist. I have had the same endochrinologist for over 18 years and I got this info directly from him because I got gyno that required surgery from taking too much H C G.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Macro I have no doubt that estrogen is increased through aromatization when test levels are kicked up with H C G but this is only have the story bro.

RG

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Macro the testes do produce small amounts of estradiol bro and not just testosterone. When you give a large enough dose of H C G not only will te testes put out a ton of testosterone but estradiol levels really do jump....please ...I don't want to get into a piss ass fight with you but you are wrong this time Marcro. Why don't you ask an endochrinologist. I have had the same endochrinologist for over 18 years and I got this info directly from him because I got gyno that required surgery from taking too much H C G.

RG

NO.. I am not wrong... (well lets say very unlikely wrong.. but it is possible.. perhaps there is some peice of obscure research..)

but someone is..

possibly someone who sadly is licensed to practice medicine and holds themselves out as a specialist.. but perhaps, then again, you misunderstood him..

and HCG does cause gyno.. once again for the reasons outlined above..

btw- there is at least one exception.. testes of hermaphrodites do produce estrogen. but they are hermaprohodites

 

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- if you can find ANYTHING that says that the testes produce estrogen.. would be interested in seeing it.

 

[Realgains]

NO.. I am not wrong... (well lets say very unlikely wrong.. but it is possible.. perhaps there is some peice of obscure research..)

but someone is..

possibly someone who sadly is licensed to practice medicine and holds themselves out as a specialist.. but perhaps, then again, you misunderstood him..

and HCG does cause gyno.. once again for the reasons outlined above..

btw- there is at least one exception.. testes of hermaphrodites do produce estrogen. but they are hermaprohodites

Macro look up Sertoli cells....these are the cells that produce estradiol in the testes.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Macro look up Sertoli cells....these are the cells that produce estradiol in the testes.

through aromatization


online endocrinology text

B. Hormones Functions
1) LH (glycoprotein):
- Acts on the Leydig cells and stimulates the production of testosterone
- Some testosterone is transported across the basement membrane into the Sertoli cells and some testosterone also goes into systemic circulation
2) FSH (glycoprotein)
- Acts on the Sertoli cells to stimulate spermatogenesis and Sertoli cell function
- In the Sertoli cells is responsible for activation of aromatase enzyme for conversion of testosterone into estradiol. If FSH is reduced then Sertoli cell function and spermatogenesis will be impaired
*3) Testosterone (steroid)
In the Sertoli cells:
- Is bound by androgen binding protein and taken into the lumen of the seminiferous tubule, for transport to the epididymis
- Is converted into estradiol by aromatase enzyme and crosses the basement membrane and goes into circulation

In systemic circulation:
Testosterone and estradiol feedback upon the hypothalamus causing a slow down in the release of GnRH, which results in a reduced output of FSH and LH
4) Inhibin (glycoprotein)
The sertoli cells also produce inhibin, which negatively feeds back on the anterior pituitary to selectively suppress FSH.

 

[Realgains]

through aromatization


online endocrinology text

B. Hormones Functions
1) LH (glycoprotein):
- Acts on the Leydig cells and stimulates the production of testosterone
- Some testosterone is transported across the basement membrane into the Sertoli cells and some testosterone also goes into systemic circulation
2) FSH (glycoprotein)
- Acts on the Sertoli cells to stimulate spermatogenesis and Sertoli cell function
- In the Sertoli cells is responsible for activation of aromatase enzyme for conversion of testosterone into estradiol. If FSH is reduced then Sertoli cell function and spermatogenesis will be impaired
*3) Testosterone (steroid)
In the Sertoli cells:
- Is bound by androgen binding protein and taken into the lumen of the seminiferous tubule, for transport to the epididymis
- Is converted into estradiol by aromatase enzyme and crosses the basement membrane and goes into circulation

In systemic circulation:
Testosterone and estradiol feedback upon the hypothalamus causing a slow down in the release of GnRH, which results in a reduced output of FSH and LH
4) Inhibin (glycoprotein)
The sertoli cells also produce inhibin, which negatively feeds back on the anterior pituitary to selectively suppress FSH.

Macro look a little deeper bro....all this is new to you but it is old hat to me bro.
Yes these cells are envolved in aromatization BUT they also directly produce estradiol.

Here is a quote from a Dr. R Brown

"...normal men make small amounts of estrone and estradiol. All sht estrone and about 85% of the estradiol is produced in extraglandular sites from androstenedione and testosterone. The rest of the estradiol is secreted directly into the circulation by the testes"

 

[Realgains]

So macro you just quoted from an edndochrinology text that says that estradiol IS produced IN the testes....at least give me that much bro.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Macro look a little deeper bro....all this is new to you but it is old hat to me bro.
Yes these cells are envolved in aromatization BUT they also directly produce estradiol.

Here is a quote from a Dr. R Brown

"...normal men make small amounts of estrone and estradiol. All sht estrone and about 85% of the estradiol is produced in extraglandular sites from androstenedione and testosterone. The rest of the estradiol is secreted directly into the circulation by the testes"

he is talking about glandular based aromatization.. still aromatization.. aromatization that takes place in the testes.. is still aromatization.. there is no direct synthesis..

if it makes you feel better the locus of aromatization is the testes.. but it is still aromatization of testosterone..

btw- its late.. night... and isnt this supposed to be a women and arimedex thread

to the women..sorry to have hijacked this.. will try to get back on topic with MS..

 

[MS]

Now now boys, try to play nicely together.

For the record, ALL estrogens found in males AND females are due to aromatization of androgens, even within the ovaries. The main difference with regard to aromatase inhibitors is the site of action of the aromatase enzyme. Most of the aromatase inhibitors (such as Arimidex) do not effectively get into the granulosa cells where most of the female aromatization occurs, and therefore they are not very good at reducing circulating lveles of etsrogen in pre menopausal women.

Now as for estrogen production in guys, it's really a no-brainer. But don't take my word for it:

Arch Androl 2002 May-Jun;48(3):225-32

The authors determined semen quality and the concentrations of estradiol, testosterone, and melatonin in blood and seminal plasma of 8 normal men. To investigate the reproducibility of these parameters, semen analysis and hormone concentrations were determined on 3 occasions, 6 weeks apart. All 8 men had normal semen analysis. Blood melatonin and testosterone levels were significantly higher than the comparable seminal plasma levels. SEMINAL PLASMA ESTRADIOL LEVELS WERE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THE BLOOD LEVELS. The intraindividual variations in seminal plasma estradiol levels ranged between 8.7 and 13.8%. There was no correlation between sperm concentration, motility or morphology and blood or seminal plasma hormone levels. Also, blood and seminal plasma hormone levels were not correlated. These results indicate that in NORMOSPERMIC MEN SEMINAL PLASMA ESTRADIOL LEVELS ARE HIGHER THAN BLOOD HORMONE LEVELS, SUGGESTING LOCAL PRODUCTION OF ESTRADIOL. This may imply that estrogen and/or the balance andorgen/estrogen is important in normal human spermatogenesis.


Mol Cell Endocrinol 2001 Jun 10;178(1-2):23-8

The ROLE OF ESTROGENS PRODUCED BY THE TESTIS may involve negative feedback regulation of androgen biosynthesis. Estrogens are also associated with contractile processes of seminiferous tubules, and might have mitogenic effects on Sertoli and Leydig cells. To investigate the location of aromatase (estrogen synthetase) in the testes, tissue from normal human subjects, aged 3 months to 72 years were studied using immunocytochemistry. In mature testes, aromatase immunostain was always associated with Leydig cells and was absent from Sertoli cells. Aromatase activity ranged from 0.014-0.55 pmol estrogen per mg/h and was significantly correlated with the immunostain intensity . Activity and immunostain intensity did not correlate with increasing age. Rather, the highest levels were measured in four of six testes of men aged 18-20 years, ………………………………………………In prepubertal boys with gynecomastia , aromatase excess appeared to be due to increased aromatization in skin fibroblasts and lymphocytes……………