Why the GOP must be stopped

[75th]

both are centrist parties but the republicans have moved way to the right in recent years thanks to super PAC's and the influence of the Koch brothers, Adelson and other billionaires helping to elect people who will fight for their interests .. you can't say both parties are the same anymore. no such thing as a liberal republican anymore, they've been wiped away. but there are still conservative democrats, just look at a state like Arkansas which still has a democratic state senate and legislature. same with Kentucky and WV too. those are very very very very conservative states but the state governors are democrats and were elected in landslides.

Correct and also kudos to your other post above regarding the fallacy of only talking about tax rates. Just one piece of the puzzle.

 

[TrueLiberal]

Hold on - are you suggesting that the effective corporate tax rate was lower back in the 40's and 50's than it is now?

Really? If so, you're wrong.

I'm not wrong. There were far more allowed deductions in the 40's and 50's. The initial rate increased from the 30's, but what corporations actually paid in general was lower.

I'm not suggesting the tax rate was lower in the '40's and '50's. Mainly what I am implying is that you have to look past crude numbers like percentage rates to figure out what corporations actually pay. You have to factor in deductions. Did you not look at the links I provided? GE pays effectively nothing in corporate taxes currently due to tax deductions.

As a side note corporations never actually pay the corporate tax. The employees and the consumer pay the corporate tax. Corporations will factor the taxes charged into the cost of their product to maintain a certain profit margin. Taxes, insurance, benefits, etc. in the end are paid for by reductions in employee salary and an increase in the price of products. If the corporations just ate the cost of the taxes and benefits they would be unprofitable and go out of business.

 

[wootoom]

I like Marxism

 

[75th]

I'm not wrong. There were far more allowed deductions in the 40's and 50's. The initial rate increased from the 30's, but what corporations actually paid in general was lower.

I'm not suggesting the tax rate was lower in the '40's and '50's. Mainly what I am implying is that you have to look past crude numbers like percentage rates to figure out what corporations actually pay. You have to factor in deductions. Did you not look at the links I provided? GE pays effectively nothing in corporate taxes currently due to tax deductions.

As a side note corporations never actually pay the corporate tax. The employees and the consumer pay the corporate tax. Corporations will factor the taxes charged into the cost of their product to maintain a certain profit margin. Taxes, insurance, benefits, etc. in the end are paid for by reductions in employee salary and an increase in the price of products. If the corporations just ate the cost of the taxes and benefits they would be unprofitable and go out of business.

You're supporting my argument. GE pays nothing now. The effective corporate tax rate in 2011 was 12%, the lowest rate since they began even recording this type of data.

Corporations were paying a higher effective tax rate in the 40s and 50s than they are now.

 

[-SD-]

I like Marxism

Im a Leninist-Dragoist

 

[ssez222]

Let's not forget to see how much better our economy is under the watchful eye of Obama... O wait our debt increased by 5 trillion

 

[TrueLiberal]

You're supporting my argument. GE pays nothing now. The effective corporate tax rate in 2011 was 12%, the lowest rate since they began even recording this type of data.

Corporations were paying a higher effective tax rate in the 40s and 50s than they are now.

I think that we are misunderstanding each other and agreeing on many things. My point about GE was to show that what a corporation pays in taxes is different than the assessed tax rates.

The marginal rate was higher in the 40's and 50's, but I can't find an effective rate. Can you link me to the effective tax rates of the '30's, '40s, and '50s? I'm also not finding uniform consensus on the present effective corporate tax rate. So far I've seen it listed anywhere between 12% ad 25%. I hate spreading disinformation.

 

[75th]

I think that we are misunderstanding each other and agreeing on many things. My point about GE was to show that what a corporation pays in taxes is different than the assessed tax rates.

The marginal rate was higher in the 40's and 50's, but I can't find an effective rate. Can you link me to the effective tax rates of the '30's, '40s, and '50s? I'm also not finding uniform consensus on the present effective corporate tax rate. So far I've seen it listed anywhere between 12% ad 25%. I hate spreading disinformation.

Me too. Data for the effective rate only began being collected in the late 50's I believe. I would suggest looking at corporate tax revenue as a % of GDP but honestly that may be misleading.

Here is a WSJ article showing the CBO 2011 corporate effective tax rate: Tax Break Pushes Corporate Taxes to Just 12.1% of Profits, Lowest Level in 40 Years - WSJ.com

12.1%

What we DO know is that the effective corporate tax rate averaged about 25% from 1986 - 2008.

So yes, you and I agree on this: the fact that US corporations are paying the lowest effective rate in recorded history combined with the fact that their profits are at a 60 year high means that maybe something needs a fixin.

 

[TrueLiberal]

I have nothing against record profits. I think record profits are a good thing in general. What I would have a problem with is how those profits are gained. If record profits are gained by offloading expenses from the corporation onto other companies and taxpayers or accepting subsidies I would view that as a negative. Maximum wealth generation doesn't occur in this case. Money is taken from one entity's pocket and put into another entity's pocket through bureaucratic thievery.

 

[75th]

Yup. Im not denigrating profits in the slightest.