Who trains to failure?

[Imakarum_Mirabilis]

I never train to failure. All of my core lifts are % based.

Ditto.

 

[Imakarum_Mirabilis]

I used to PL and I think that is one of the dumbest things I've heard. It would have made more sense to say that quitting early is teaching youself to quit! You should believe you are capable of another rep. If you don't make it, big deal. I'm not saying PLers should train to failure. I always cycled myself. I'm just saying that sometimes it happens, and you shouldn't be thinking "oh no, I don't think I can get another rep" in the middle of a set, and put it away out of fear of failing.

Traps

That's not what it's about. It's not so much the mental perception, but the neural effect.

 

[MrTrap]

That's not what it's about. It's not so much the mental perception, but the neural effect.

You can't separate them. Watch somebody fail in a lift and odds are good in most cases you will see the failure before it happens. Including at PL meets.

Even if he meant neural effect, avoiding failure would have you thinking about it in the middle of a set. That's just dumb.

And if he meant neural effect, he should explain it. Where can we read about this? If there really was such an effect, you'd think the anti-HIT brigade would be referencing it every chance they got.

 

[pwr_machine]

You can't separate them. Watch somebody fail in a lift and odds are good in most cases you will see the failure before it happens. Including at PL meets.

That might be the case for a first time lifter or your local meets, but it's not the case with an experienced veteran. I've seen lifters get lifts that I thought were impossible and they gutted them out anyway.

Not trying to provoke an argument. I'm headed out of town!

 

[guldukat]

I used to PL and I think that is one of the dumbest things I've heard. It would have made more sense to say that quitting early is teaching youself to quit! You should believe you are capable of another rep. If you don't make it, big deal. I'm not saying PLers should train to failure. I always cycled myself. I'm just saying that sometimes it happens, and you shouldn't be thinking "oh no, I don't think I can get another rep" in the middle of a set, and put it away out of fear of failing.

Traps

You wouldn't happen to be James "Traps" Ayers would you?

Seriously though, I think we have to be careful in how we interpret what Dr. Squat meant by that remark.

Personally, I took it to mean something like this...

In lifting, powerlifting in particular, you can gain without training to failure, right?

I might like failure training a lot myself, but I readily admit that you can achieve progressive overload without it. And failure is often thought to be very hard on the CNS. There are ways around that in a bodybuilding routine (DC, cycling exercises and periods of hard training with light stuff), but in powerlifting, training to failure on the same exercises again and again would quickly lead to CNS burn-out, depending on the specifics of the routine of course.

Therefore, in a sense, training to failure IS "training to fail"--fail is in failing to progress--because you'll burn out too quickly doing it.

IF that's what Dr. Squat meant, I agree with him. We really need a context for that quote to say either way, though I do suspect your interpretation is probably closer to what he meant.

I agree with you in that case...some failure training isn't going to make someone magically weaker than they should be.
It'd take a lot to measurably derail your strength.

 

[MrTrap]

That might be the case for a first time lifter or your local meets, but it's not the case with an experienced veteran. I've seen lifters get lifts that I thought were impossible and they gutted them out anyway.

Not trying to provoke an argument. I'm headed out of town!

Actually you are talking about something different. Trying that near impossible rep and believing you will get it is something that separates the experienced lifter, true. That's the kind of attitude you gotta have. But I've watched veterans effectively give up mid-rep. That's what I'm talking about. Lifts they could have gutted out. You've seen it too. You've seen lifters miss a lift (failure!) then come back and make it on the next attempt. Some of those are because they were out of the groove, but some are psychological. Watch enough and you can predict them mid-rep.

 

[guldukat]

And if he meant neural effect, he should explain it. Where can we read about this? If there really was such an effect, you'd think the anti-HIT brigade would be referencing it every chance they got.

I've actually seen anti-HIT people say such things. I believe Christian Thibaudeau referenced something along these lines at "T Mag." I could be wrong, though...I'm sure resident powerlifting goddess Lady Spatts could cite something along these lines.

I really like Spatts.

My digressions notwithstanding if, in the unlikely event that Dr. Squat meant "mental failure," I also think that's ridiculous. IMO, training to failure is the only sure-fire way to know your limits, outside of 1 RMs of course; and if anything, that PREVENTS you from failing to hit your weights at a meet...there's no subjectivism involved.

Knowing we're one rep shy or so is close enough to keep gaining and to have a good idea of where you stand, but there's still that little bit of imprecision. A few lbs. here and there win contests, so that'd be imprecision I wouldn't feel comfortable with.

 

[casualbb]

It makes no sense for powerlifters to train to failure. Failure training inhibits voluntary strength by messing with EC coupling and inhibiting a motor unit's ability to fire. Why would you want to do something that would make you weaker?

 

[Imakarum_Mirabilis]

You can't separate them. Watch somebody fail in a lift and odds are good in most cases you will see the failure before it happens. Including at PL meets.

Even if he meant neural effect, avoiding failure would have you thinking about it in the middle of a set. That's just dumb.

And if he meant neural effect, he should explain it. Where can we read about this? If there really was such an effect, you'd think the anti-HIT brigade would be referencing it every chance they got.

Whatever you say, then.

 

[makedah]

I don't try to train to failure. Often, when I go up in the weight, my last rep is the last one I can do with good form. But I don't go past that.