Who has "cheated" in a tested/natural comp?

[EPROM]

Good discussion so far, lets hear some more!

Tough topics make people smarter.

I once had a thread locked and was completely banned from a .50 caliber rifle website for asking a simple, basic question: "Would anyone ever consider breaking current law to protect your 2nd Amendment rights?". I was accused of advocating anarchy and thusly banned. ....That website is pretty much useless now with very few posters.

"Questions" are never cause for a locked thread or banning.

Birdman

 

[gjohnson5]

So basically you are saying that everyone will cheat if they can?

The levels of steroid contamination in supplements is not going to have a massive impact in most cases.

Hypogonadism as the fault for the T:E ratio??

How many men do you think there are with hypogonadism that are competing in sports that require testing?

I do really wonder why people feel the need to set these impossible standards for naturals.

I don't want to call them "cheaters" because cheating implies that they broke some rule. If a drug cannot be tested , then they didn't break any rules , they simply circumvented them.

Anyone who competes at anything want to win. I think the rules in this case cannot cover all the bases and hence. It would be like saying drinking milk is banned because non grass fed cows are fed both Paylean (a beta2 adregenic drug such as clen, as well as growth hormones) The same could be said for eating beef or pork...

As far as the hypogonadism , I think a rather large portion of males suffer from hypogonadism , erectile dysfunction, testosterone/estrogen or testosterone/prolactin ratios or other symptoms relating to lack of production in the HPTA or testes. I think the number will never be known because the situation many feel is embarrassing. The use of testoterone supplements or drugs can (and should) be given to men with such issues.

I just think waving the "cheater" label is probably not the best thing , but I think the idea of being natural would mean eating only whole foods and no supplements.

 

[Big_BK]

well that's the thing... IMHO there is no such thing as a "natural" competitor even if you follow the IOC rules.

There is no drug test for superdol and nor can there ever be one. I believe the drug has very few metabolites as Patrick Arnold has said , but the active time for these metabolites is such that you'd have to take the drug directly before being tested....

IMHO there are other drugs with similar properties which are impossible to test for.

Secondly many supplement manufacturers use Chinese suppliers for raw materials and many of them do not check the quality and integrity of such raw materials before making formulations. Having said this a product bought off the shelf can be tested and you'll find chemicals if not banned steroids in many OTC supplements.

IMHO testosterone / epitestoterone ratio is junk science anyway. It's possible that many males w/hypogonadism would have out of balance ratios normally. This is a knock on the assertions of the testing in general. It maybe possible for someone with such a condition to take and OTC or prescription testosterone booster (which should be banned) and "restore" such a condition

IMHO the answer would be everyone who supplements....

I think most of the pro hormones today are like this because i know a few guys and women who are competing in a natural show and their nutritionist has them on all sorts of prohormones since they will pass the drug test. Guess that is just the way it is today.

 

[ajaygill]

if your gonna juice, why not enter a non tested one?

 

[the_alcatraz]

Let me ask all of you a question: How many of you realy think every single "natural" bodybuilder is really natural? lol

Some of these guys that I've seen look about as natural as a breast implant.

 

[Greatercow]

Let me ask all of you a question: How many of you realy think every single "natural" bodybuilder is really natural? lol

Some of these guys that I've seen look about as natural as a breast implant.

yeah ...that is sad indeed

 

[Tatyana]

Let me ask all of you a question: How many of you realy think every single "natural" bodybuilder is really natural? lol

Some of these guys that I've seen look about as natural as a breast implant.

Have you been to a natural comp or are you basing this on photos?


I think this is always a contentious issue, but a lot of faulty logic follows this argument.

Because there are people that cheat does not mean that everyone cheats.

Again, there are those that have a great capacity to build muscle.

I suppose this issue is quite difficult for me as I am one of those people who is natural, however, people have their doubts as I do have a lot of muscle, and there are those 'whispers'.

I used to think it was a compliment that people thought that I was enhanced, until I started to realise that it could go against me in natural comps.

It is quite soul-destroying to work so hard for something, stay so focused, make all those sacrifices only to either be accused of cheating or have someone say that 'there are no naturals'.

There are differences with naturals, and I do think there are aspects of natural BBing that allows them certain advantages, one being that when you diet correctly as a natural, you can come in far more ripped with thinner skin than enhanced athletes.

 

[heavy_duty]

So you're assuming he's going to be the only guy cheating?


I'd say the majority of the competitors in competitions such as these are enhanced, so to all of you that said he's pathetic if he loses...why? He could just be losing to someone more juiced then he is.

No kidding man they're all juiced but just not super juiced.

 

[joe d]

Steroids used by anyone other than a medical patient ....is cheating!

I'm "Cheating" old age with JustAddMuscle supps ...and it's working.

Barry Bonds "Cheated" and smacked out more homers than anyone.

People use AAS to "Cheat" having to lift a ton of weights they wouldn't normally be able to lift naturally.

...So it lends itself that the actual nature of AAS setroids is to "cheat" nature itself! So if there is a Natty Competition, you can bet that there will be people who want to "cheat nature" and win this competition with super-nature AAS. This would be a way to win a competition (like anyone would want to do) and have people think you did it 100% naturally.

We "cheat" in various aspects of life. What we personally gain from our cheating determines if we ever do the same thing again. Would barry Bonds ever give up what he has achived to go back and do it all over again naturally? ...I don't think so.

BTW: Any forum who locks a thread and then RELEASES the thread after further review deserves full credit. Many forums will mistakenly lock a thread and just leave it that way even after proven wrong by posters just out of pride. THESE are the forums that suck and die. It takes BIGGER balls to unlock a thread after further review of compelling posts. ...To me, this speaks volumes for EF and sets them apart from the others.

Give them the credit they deserve for making it right. ...They didn't "cheat".

Birdman

entering a boxing tournament for kids 12 and under when you are 30 years old is also cheating just like all of the points you made but would you have really won anything after knocking out a bunck of 12 year olds? its not the same. some people want to compete but will not use aas for numerous reasons. they should have a place to do it with a fair chance. so regardless of what some idiots do i will never do it. i started using aas not to cheat but to try to make it pro in ifbb. to me this is where i belong. although they cant welcome aas users for legal reasons we all know the deal.

 

[Tatyana]

No kidding man they're all juiced but just not super juiced.

What are you basing this on?

Have you been to a natural comp?

This does seem to be the general opinion of a lot of American BBers.

Far different story in the UK, and all the top amateur BBers, natural and enhanced know each other.

The enhanced ones know that the naturals are not using.

The naturals also get as much if not more advertising and publicity in BBing mags.

This may be a cultural thing.

I do wonder if it is related to the amount of direct advertising to the public that the pharmaceutical companies have in the US.