When should I change workout and to what??

[ExtraMile]

Don't be so ignorant.

Go ahead and do what you want, waste your time with typical BB type programs, no one here will loose any sleep over it.

If someone comes here asking for help I am going to suggest the program that will get him the best results and at the same time teach him the proper way to train, planning, progression.

You don't have to do it, but I am certainly not going to recommend him something that doesn't work just becasue it was recommended to the last person that asked teh same question.

The fact that you made that post shows you don';t understand the program at all, or training in general. It is people like you that have been giving bad advice for so long that has been so detrimental to the weight training community. The ignorant leading the ignorant.

chill bro I wasn't making fun of anything I just found it funny how many times the same question is asked

if you really want Ill type you out my routine in detail and you can evaluate it and tell me if you think Im wasting my time or if I know anything about training, sure I wont know as much as you but Im only 14, Iv been training for 6 months you have probably been training for years.

 

[ExtraMile]

And also, here are my 6 month trianing progress pics http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-gallery-members-pictures/extramile-6-month-progress-pics-645878.html, I dont think that its too bad progress so I must be doing something right... 30+ lbs in sixth months and I cant be wasting too much time...

 

[timtim]

Smith machine puts your body at unnatural angles, with unnatural bar movement. ON top of that you don't use any stabilizer muscles as the smith machine takes care of that for you. So when you go to lift something in a similar movement in real life, the stabilizers are weak and that is when injury happens.

I don't care who uses the smith machine, it is an injury waiting to happen. Strong/ big muscles and weak stabilizers = injury.

As far as optimal training, adding strength and size allowing the body to grow as a whole while doing it in the most efficient way is optimal training.

The useless bb split he posted is not optimal training for anyone new to lifting, or even people that have been lifting for years.

Most successful body builders have a power lifting, or similar strength training background. they have spent years on core lifts, building mass and getting stronger. They already have the size they need to compete. They may then turn to a BB type routine to focus on specific areas that they need to please the judges, but this is after putting on size with core lifts. They didn't get there by doing BB splits, if they did, they spent thousands, on top of thousands on juice.

For a new lifter to go out and try a program that is for someone that already has size and just wants to focus on specific areas is far form optimal for that person. Optimal training for a new lifter is core lifts, adding weight to the bar, with planned progression. It doesn't matter if the goal is to add some muscle and loose BF (get ripped), or add size, or just get fucking strong, the training is the same, diet is the variable.

So ya, I know what optimal training is.

i didnt argue any of the points you made. you said the smith is crap and it is far from it. if youre a moron without a clue, you may set up bad angles in the smith machine, but your point of unnatural angles is wrong. for those of us who dont need joint stabilizing exercises, the smith is great.

 

[djeclipse]

chill bro I wasn't making fun of anything I just found it funny how many times the same question is asked

if you really want Ill type you out my routine in detail and you can evaluate it and tell me if you think Im wasting my time or if I know anything about training, sure I wont know as much as you but Im only 14, Iv been training for 6 months you have probably been training for years.

It seemes like you were saying that to suggest the 5 x 5 to someone new was wrong.

You have been doing the beginner strength program with alternating A, B workouts, involving core compound movements.

I also see that you are starting to stall, or have been stalled on a few of your lifts for a while.

The beginner program is great as you're adding weight to the bar each week, but one can only do that for so long. I would also suggest that you move to the intermediate workout, take a week to deaload and start the intermediate 5 x 5 where weight is added every week, instead of every workout.

You will start making gains on your squat and deads again.

Also, I see that you are startingto stall

 

[djeclipse]

i didnt argue any of the points you made. you said the smith is crap and it is far from it. if youre a moron without a clue, you may set up bad angles in the smith machine, but your point of unnatural angles is wrong. for those of us who dont need joint stabilizing exercises, the smith is great.

The movement of the smith machine itself is unnatural. A fixed straight path for the bar is unnatural and puts your body in bad angles, no matter how you set it up.

Take the bench for example. The proper bench press movement is not in a straight line, it has a slight arc (bar movement). The squat is the worst on the smith machine as you end up with your feet way out in front of your body as the bar moves straight down.


I understand joint pain being a problem, but I would suggest the smith machine is the cause of that joint pain, not the solution to it.

 

[iggy]

informative dj.
when i started the 5x5 at 16 i made great gains.
omega project as of now

 

[ExtraMile]

It seemes like you were saying that to suggest the 5 x 5 to someone new was wrong.

You have been doing the beginner strength program with alternating A, B workouts, involving core compound movements.

I also see that you are starting to stall, or have been stalled on a few of your lifts for a while.

The beginner program is great as you're adding weight to the bar each week, but one can only do that for so long. I would also suggest that you move to the intermediate workout, take a week to deaload and start the intermediate 5 x 5 where weight is added every week, instead of every workout.

You will start making gains on your squat and deads again.

Also, I see that you are startingto stall

Yeah I was kind of doing the 3x5 but changed a little for what I need and prefer,

3x5 ¬ my workout
A
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 3x5
Bench 3x5 ¬ Military 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 ¬ Deep Dips 3x8, DB Row 3x10

B
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 1x20, 1x15, 1x12, 1x10, same with leg ext.
Military 3x5 ¬ Bench 3x5
Pendlay 3x5 ¬ Dead 1x5, RDL 2x6

I also added in some core and grip work after each workout.

So you would suggest I would move to this? Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version ... I will take that into account however I get very bored with programs very easily and always have done and I think after 4 weeks I will already want to change, especially as you end up spending more time loading/unloading the bar than actuallly lifting and you only really do 1 work set per lift...

Maybe doing this will help me progress on squats but I doubt on deadlifts as I have actually been using the 5x5 calculator to work out my deadlift weights, so I started off pretty easy then after around 4 weeks when it started to get harder I stalled again.

Big_BK reccomended doing the opposite and doing more sets and less reps anyway...

 

[djeclipse]

Yeah I was kind of doing the 3x5 but changed a little for what I need and prefer,

3x5 ¬ my workout
A
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 3x5
Bench 3x5 ¬ Military 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 ¬ Deep Dips 3x8, DB Row 3x10

B
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 1x20, 1x15, 1x12, 1x10, same with leg ext.
Military 3x5 ¬ Bench 3x5
Pendlay 3x5 ¬ Dead 1x5, RDL 2x6

I also added in some core and grip work after each workout.

So you would suggest I would move to this? Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version ... I will take that into account however I get very bored with programs very easily and always have done and I think after 4 weeks I will already want to change, especially as you end up spending more time loading/unloading the bar than actuallly lifting and you only really do 1 work set per lift...

Maybe doing this will help me progress on squats but I doubt on deadlifts as I have actually been using the 5x5 calculator to work out my deadlift weights, so I started off pretty easy then after around 4 weeks when it started to get harder I stalled again.

Big_BK reccomended doing the opposite and doing more sets and less reps anyway...

Do what you want. If you're not going to put enough effort into it and only do it for 4 weeks there is no point. There is no point in doing any type of program for only 4 weeks, you'll end up jumping form program to program getting no results.

As far as the deadlifts go, it's not simply about the 5x5 calculator, it's about the entire program as a whole, weight progression, over reaching. If you do it properly and put proper effort into it, your deadlift will go up. But it seems you are not willing to do it properly so there's no point.

You started off good, putting on some size and adding weight to the bar just as any beginner would. Now you're at a point where just going out and lifting isn't enough, you need a program/ plan to get your weight's going up. You are at the point that a lot of new lifters come across They are new to lifting, it is new to the body and just about anything you do gets results. Then they reach a point where they hit a plateau and just lifting isn't enough. This is the point where a lot of people get frustrated and stop lifting all together.

 

[ExtraMile]

Do what you want. If you're not going to put enough effort into it and only do it for 4 weeks there is no point. There is no point in doing any type of program for only 4 weeks, you'll end up jumping form program to program getting no results.

As far as the deadlifts go, it's not simply about the 5x5 calculator, it's about the entire program as a whole, weight progression, over reaching. If you do it properly and put proper effort into it, your deadlift will go up. But it seems you are not willing to do it properly so there's no point.

You started off good, putting on some size and adding weight to the bar just as any beginner would. Now you're at a point where just going out and lifting isn't enough, you need a program/ plan to get your weight's going up. You are at the point that a lot of new lifters come across They are new to lifting, it is new to the body and just about anything you do gets results. Then they reach a point where they hit a plateau and just lifting isn't enough. This is the point where a lot of people get frustrated and stop lifting all together.

no your right i wont put maximum effort into it after a while as I wont enjoy it, like I said the fact that you spend more time changing the weights than actually lifting and they fact that each day is so short and so similar I just dont think I will enjoy, i just think the 5x5 isnt what I would enjoy and therefore put effort into, right now I enjoy the programs so much on the way to the gym I have a butterfly feeling in my stomach so much i feel sick and I start breathing real quick cuz I cant wait to get in there, with 5x5 I just wouldnt spend all day at school looking forward to hitting the gym or anything like that, thats why I havnt really done it much, I tryed it for 6 weeks before and didnt enjoy it. Thankyou for your advice and Ill keep to routines made up of compound lifts for sure, just not the sets and weights that are used in the 5x5.

 

[djeclipse]

no your right i wont put maximum effort into it after a while as I wont enjoy it, like I said the fact that you spend more time changing the weights than actually lifting and they fact that each day is so short and so similar I just dont think I will enjoy, i just think the 5x5 isnt what I would enjoy and therefore put effort into, right now I enjoy the programs so much on the way to the gym I have a butterfly feeling in my stomach so much i feel sick and I start breathing real quick cuz I cant wait to get in there, with 5x5 I just wouldnt spend all day at school looking forward to hitting the gym or anything like that, thats why I havnt really done it much, I tryed it for 6 weeks before and didnt enjoy it. Thankyou for your advice and Ill keep to routines made up of compound lifts for sure, just not the sets and weights that are used in the 5x5.

Keep us posted on your minimal/ lack of progress.