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genezapharmateuticals
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Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsResearch Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic

WELL ITS ABOUT FUCKING TIME>> Some REAL Immigration reform

Pandora_ said:
whose is it? The business owners?
Considering they are the ones who give people their jobs, then yeah.

If you want the government having a big hand in employment and personal finances, I think a one way ticket to North Korea is $1,100 these days.
 
Uhh.. it doesnt matter Pandora.

There isnt a SINGLE passage in our constitution granting the federal government the function to address layoffs or bankruptcies.

Maybe I am being too harsh assuming you as a fairly recent immigrant (your writing style and attitude seem to imply as much) that you would have even a basic understanding of the philosophies behind the document.

The constitution is a document or charter if you will.. An agreement between the people and those chosen to represent them STRICTLY limiting the powers they wield to the functions clearly outlined within the document.

Power outside that document.. simply does not exist.. nor should it ever be mentioned. Their existence as an entity (the government) is bordered by the functions granted by that charter.

NOWHERE does it say they may act as a situational problem solver.. NOWHERE does it say they may redistribute wealth..

BUT It does say VERY clearly one of their PRIMARY FUNCTIONS IS TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Are we CLEAR ON THIS?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Immigration to the US keeps Mexico going. Mexicans in the states send back billions of dollars to Mexico, and the allure of the US means that dispossessed Mexcans march on the Rio Grande for the redress of grievances, rather than Mexico City.

Mexico is a failed state, another Spanish colonial disaster.

Can you support that claim with numbers?

What percentage of Mexicans have become illegal aliens in the USA? What percentage of the Mexican GDP comes from cash sent home from Mexican nationals working in the USA? I'd venture to guess that both numbers are under 1%.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Uhh.. it doesnt matter Pandora.

There isnt a SINGLE passage in our constitution granting the federal government the function to address layoffs or bankruptcies.

Maybe I am being too harsh assuming you as a fairly recent immigrant (your writing style and attitude seem to imply as much) that you would have even a basic understanding of the philosophies behind the document.

The constitution is a document or charter if you will.. An agreement between the people and those chosen to represent them STRICTLY limiting the powers they wield to the functions clearly outlined within the document.

Power outside that document.. simply does not exist.. nor should it ever be mentioned. Their existence as an entity (the government) is bordered by the functions granted by that charter.

NOWHERE does it say they may act as a situational problem solver.. NOWHERE does it say they may redistribute wealth..

BUT It does say VERY clearly one of their PRIMARY FUNCTIONS IS TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Are we CLEAR ON THIS?


Pandora, just put it this way.

I use this line alot...

The government isnt here to provide for you. The government is here to create an environment where you can provide for yourself.
 
Mr. dB said:
Can you support that claim with numbers?

What percentage of Mexicans have become illegal aliens in the USA? What percentage of the Mexican GDP comes from cash sent home from Mexican nationals working in the USA? I'd venture to guess that both numbers are under 1%.

neither is under 1%. The first number may be a single digit percentage. The second number, I'll look. I suspect you over estimate the GDP of mexico.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Uhh.. it doesnt matter Pandora.

There isnt a SINGLE passage in our constitution granting the federal government the function to address layoffs or bankruptcies.

Maybe I am being too harsh assuming you as a fairly recent immigrant (your writing style and attitude seem to imply as much) that you would have even a basic understanding of the philosophies behind the document.

The constitution is a document or charter if you will.. An agreement between the people and those chosen to represent them STRICTLY limiting the powers they wield to the functions clearly outlined within the document.

Power outside that document.. simply does not exist.. nor should it ever be mentioned. Their existence as an entity (the government) is bordered by the functions granted by that charter.

NOWHERE does it say they may act as a situational problem solver.. NOWHERE does it say they may redistribute wealth..

BUT It does say VERY clearly one of their PRIMARY FUNCTIONS IS TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Are we CLEAR ON THIS?

yeap.

and thank you 75th.

I wanna understand this too - where is the pressure coming from so we send jobs overseas and to Mexico to save on labor and permanently lay off people? I thought that its not solely the CEOs of those companies
 
Mr. dB said:
Can you support that claim with numbers?

What percentage of Mexicans have become illegal aliens in the USA? What percentage of the Mexican GDP comes from cash sent home from Mexican nationals working in the USA? I'd venture to guess that both numbers are under 1%.

Heres some good info I found:

Economic costs of illegal immigration

The economic and social consequences of illegal immigration across the 1,940 mile long America-Mexico border are staggering.

An average of 10,000 illegal aliens cross the border every day - over 3 million per year. A third will be caught and many of them immediately will try again. About half of those remaining will become permanent U.S. residents (3,500 per day).

Currently there are an estimated 9 to 11 million illegals in the U.S., double the 1994 level. A quarter-million illegal aliens from the Middle-east currently live in the U.S, and a growing number are entering by crossing the Mexican border.

FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.80.

80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. Drug cartels spend a half-billion dollars per year bribing Mexico's corrupt generals and police officials, and armed confrontations between the Mexican army and U.S. Border Patrol agents are a real threat. There have been 118 documented incursions by the Mexican military over the last five years.

Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost. FAIR research shows "the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers."

"In the NAFTA era, a staggering 87 percent of Mexico's imports go to the United States, while Mexicans living in the United States send home more than $8 billion annually. Fox has said he considers his constituency to include the 22 million to 24 million Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the United States. Mexican candidates now make campaign stops in U.S. cities like Los Angeles, Phoenix and Fresno, Calif." (Mexico's muddle, Ruben Navarrette Jr., March 26, 2003) (That last point killed me...)

For more information, see The Washington Times article and series Chaos along the border, October 6, 2002, the FAIR reports Immigration and the Economy, Immigration Lowers Wages for American Workers, and the article Record amount of remittances sent from US to Mexico.
Remittances

$60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S. Economists say this will help Mexico reduce its $17.8 billion defecit and may bolster the peso. $10 billion dollars (as of 2003) are sent back to Mexico annually, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, reported in an Associated Press article, up $800 million from the previous year. ($9 billion dollars were previously sent back annually, according to a September 25, 2002 NPR report). That figure equals what Mexico earns annually from tourism. This is a massive transfer of wealth from America - essentially from America's displaced working poor - to Mexico.

Education costs

The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually—enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.


'Anchor baby' Hospital costs

Hospital The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

It's estimated there may be over 300,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.S. Thus, illegal alien mothers now add more to U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965. These babies are called anchor babies because they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency.

FAIR estimates "there are currently between 287,000 and 363,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. This figure is based on the crude birth rate of the total foreign-born population (33 births per 1000) and the size of the illegal alien population (between 8.7 and 11 million). In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year."

FAIR research shows that "the Urban Institute estimates that the cost of educating illegal alien children in the nation's seven states with the highest concentration of illegal aliens was $3.1 billion in 1993 (which, with the growth of their population to 1.3 million, would be more like $5 billion in 2000). This estimate does not take into account the additional costs of bilingual education or other special educational needs."

In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated.

An illegal alien mother only has to say she is "undocumented" in order to receive immediate - and free - medical care.

Medical care to illegal aliens

"Mexican ambulance drivers are driving their hospital patients who can't pay for medical care in Mexico, to facilities in the United States. They know that the federal Emergency Medical Act mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens.

Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico."1

These costs are staggering. The Cochise County, Arizona Health Department spends as much as 30 percent of its annual $9 million budget on illegal aliens.3 The Copper Queen Hospital in Bisbee, Arizona, has spent $200,000 in uncompensated services out of a net operating budget of $300,000.3 The University Medical Center in Tucson may lose as much as $10 million and the Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, also in Tucson, has lost $1 million in the first quarter of fiscal 2002.3

As noted above, in a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby.

The Gwinnett, Georgia, Hospital System expects has established a $34 million reserve to cover its anticipated outlay for illegal aliens in 2003. Los Angeles Times columnist Ronald Brownstein wrote in his December 30, 2003 column that the 'Health-Care Storm Brewing in California Threatens to Swamp U.S... the impending Medicaid disaster is not a problem the states can handle alone; their budget shortfalls are too big.'2

"The General Accounting Office traveled to southern Arizona to study the impact of illegal immigrants on Arizona and other border state hospitals. In 2002, three hospitals located in Cochise County funded more than $1 million in uncompensated health care costs... The Florida Hospital Association surveyed 28 hospitals and found that health care for illegal aliens totaled at least $40 million in 2002."2

Illegal aliens cost $10 billion in 2002

A new Center for Immigration Studies report was released in August, 2004 that shows that illegal immigration cost $10 billion in 2002.4 Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also likely to be significant. The study also finds that if illegals were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow to nearly $29 billion. Among the findings:

* Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

* Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

* If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.

* Because many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth, barring illegals themselves from federal programs will not significantly reduce costs.

* Although they create a net drain on the federal government, the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.

* However, they impose annual costs of more than $26.3 billion, or about $6,950 per illegal household.

* About 43 percent, or $7 billion, of the federal taxes illegals pay go to Social Security and Medicare.
 
The states should use the National Guard and post them along the border and view the illegal immigration as an invasion by a foreign country (I think you get where I am going with this) By using the National Guard in this manner without Federalizing them I believe they can avoid the Posse Comatatis (sp) that prevents the Military from being used as to enforce civil law.
 
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