Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Ultimate Fat Loss Plan

Pwb i will cut out splenda but i head a small amount of it wont effect you as much as equal..Also how bout this 4 meals a day of chicken, spinach and flax oil or olive oil... 60 grams of fat on training days and 30 on non training days but i increase the protein when the fat is low..i will use butter spray -0 calorie since its no carbs and just a bit of fat ...ok? and NO cheat days lol
and no cardio until i see no results.
 
Pwb i will cut out splenda but i head a small amount of it wont effect you as much as equal..Also how bout this 4 meals a day of chicken, spinach and flax oil or olive oil... 60 grams of fat on training days and 30 on non training days but i increase the protein when the fat is low..i will use butter spray -0 calorie since its no carbs and just a bit of fat ...ok? and NO cheat days lol
and no cardio until i see no results.
 
ncliter, this diet can definitely be used to bulk. The problem is too few people are willing to try it to give it a shot. Many years before steroids started being used as a cruch, lifters were using high fat diets to put on mass. Even Dr. Serrano says the best amino acid profiles for putting on mass come from Red Meat and Eggs, staples in this diet. Try to get 1.5-2g protein per lb. of bodyweight, and the remaining cals from The Fat in Meat/Eggs, Coconut Oil, and Fish Oils. I would slowly increase your fat rather than going on a super-high calorie diet as not to put on too much fat. Set protein levels and aim for 40% fat, then increase weekly as needed to add muscle and adapt to fat as energy. I'd Even throw in a really high fat load day to fill the muscles out. Vince Gironda and Dave Draper wrote about bodybuilders in the old days at high fat and protein and put on their best mass that way. Dr. DiPasquale, considered one of the foremost nutrition experts in the world, is an advocate of the high fat diet.

missy, I agree a small amount is fine. your diet plan looks good, make sure you get the 1g per lb. bodyweight. Don't worry about increasing protein much on the lower fat days, try to keep it the same. Make sure you are lifting hard and heavy, with a short intense workout, lower reps (4-6), heavy weights and shorter rest, 1-2 min. for 2-3 days and try to do 2-3 days of sprint intervals. Do this at a high school track or a park, etc. Jog 5 min. to warm up, then sprint 30seconds, walk/jog 90seconds. Do this 6 times and increase 1 sprint each week.

plorvine, a couple of things. I'm writing much from the top of my head on my girlfriends computer as mine is down for now so I can't reference as much as I wish. Anyway, in the interview some glycogen was used to fuel the muscles during the lifting routine, but not as much as is usually believed. This is interesting as this occured in carb adapted bodybuilders. Even so they utilized a great deal of fat as an energy source as liver glycogen wasn't significantly depleted either. The problem is this study shows some support, but what if the bodybuilders were on a low carb diet for several weeks/months. The problem is these studies have NOT been conducted to a great extent b/c once carb loading was developed and supported by research, this is the ONLY idea that has been supported, believed. Studies on fat adapted indivuals are non-existant. I agree this approach is wildly different than what is supported, which is why we have to use some research on endurance athletes and mice, for some hint to performance changes on this type of diet. The sad fact is bodybuilding is a pitifully unpopular sport, and not a lot of research has been done in the field for this reason. Even the research on strength training that is done is ALWAYS dne on those who eat carbs consistantly, so its impossible to compare fuel utilization accurately since they haven't done studies. Even one of the developers of carb loading insisted it be used for short periods of time, yet gov't., etc, recommended it always to improve athletic performance.

Rep ranges for the bodybuilders were 10 reps done to failure w/ short rest, it seemed like a German Volume Training program on the legs.

I will get back to you w/ more information on cortisol, but from my understanding cortisol decreases once adaption to low carbs takes place. Just like low energy is common when starting a low carb diet, cortisol increases as the body percieves stress. I'm unaware of studies measuring cortisol on those following the diet for long periods of time. Also in groups exercising aerobics are usually the exercise of choice which is a shame but excessive aerobics, especially w/ calorie restriction will lead to elevated cortisol levels.

Here is part of an article from Dr. Mauro DiPasquale

High-Intensity Exercise And High Fat Oxidation

What's the best kind of exercise to maximize body fat oxidation? A few recent studies have shown that high-intensity exercise may be the best fat burner of all.

Moderate exercise is considered the king of fat burners. Everyone knows that the best way to burn fat is to do moderate intensity aerobics, not high-intensity exercise. That's because lower-intensity prolonged exercise is supposed to use fat as fuel while higher-intensity exercise, such as weight lifting, is supposed to use up the body's stores of ATP, PCr and glycogen. But how much of this thinking is based in fact and how much is just hearsay?

As far as the best kind of exercise to maximize body fat oxidation, a few recent studies have actually shown that high intensity exercise may be the best fat burner of all.

It seems that the compound malonyl-CoA is an inhibitor of carnitine palmitoyltransferase I, the enzyme that controls the oxidation of fatty acids by regulating their transfer into the mitochondria.4 The actual metabolic rationale is somewhat convoluted but, basically, if you decrease malonyl CoA you actually increase fatty acid oxidation. Exercise results in an acute decrease of skeletal muscle malonyl CoA by inhibiting acetyl-CoA carboxylase (the enzyme involved in the synthesis of malonyl CoA).5 So exercise increases fatty acid oxidation.

In one recent study done on rats, the extent of ACC inactivation and therefore the decrease in the formation of malonyl CoA was dependent on exercise intensity.6 The higher the intensity of exercise the more fatty acid oxidation, with no leveling off or decrease as the intensity of exercise increased. Interestingly enough, slow twitch fibers ACC inactivation only occurred with intense exercise while the degree of fast twitch fibers ACC inactivation was dependent on exercise intensity.

Bottom line. High-intensity exercise burns fat best. So don't feel deprived because you're training at high intensity and don't have the time to do a lot of moderate-intensity aerobics. The treadmill aficionados don't have anything over on you.
 
Pwb u are a big help and i gladly appreciate it.
now aren't calories since fat and protein decreased fairly low for a low carb diet on non training days?. well it dosnt matter because i will be working alot and have no time to eat, But i heard from a BBuilder that 5-6 meals provide a stabolized anabolic environment for your muscles as opposed to 3 or 4 meals. They said you can lose and use protein or muscle as energy during the long hours without amino acids.? im confised and any outtake on this/?
 
The idea of 5-6 meals a day being necessary for anabolism is utter bullshit. It really came around for several reasons, one is from supplement companies when they developed meal replacements as eating 6x a day is almost impossible if you have a life so they could sell their MRP's to make money, saying that 6 meals a day is superior. Another reason comes from steroid using bodybuilders, where more meals are beneficial b/c steroids increase protein synthesis, therefore everything you eat on juice helps build muscle, so more protein will be used, being natural everything is different and 6 meals is a waste of time unless one enjoys smaller meals/eating by their watches. Jeff Everson was even talking about this recently, how Cory Everson never ever ate more than 3 meals a day when training for and winning her several Ms. Olympia's. (again, she still used drugs, but the fact still remains)

Humans would never had made it this far through our existance if protein broke down after a few hours of not eating it. We went through long periods of famine, where food wasnt available, yet we survived b/c we were adapted to and b/c we were still capable of using our muscles to hunt despite going periods of time w/ no food. Our body doesn't become catabolic on an hourly basis, its over a much larger scale. Recent research by a premiere protein researcher, Dr. Biore showed a superior utilization of protein if eaten in a pulse fashion, a way I believe we are meant to eat. In elderly, muscle breakdown is a huge problem. Studies were conducted increasing 2 groups of people's protein to 1.5g protein per kg. of bodyweight, and spread 1 groups food over 3-4 meals evenly and 1 groups protein intake into 80% protein 1 meal, and the remaining over 2-3 other meals. The "protein pulse" group showed superior protein synthesis, with less muscle breakdown. Other studies on amino acid infusion, injecting protein into the body, showed anabolism for about 1-2 hours, and dropped to nothing after that, no matter how much extra protein was ingested, anabolism stopped. This strongly opposes the idea of eating protein every 2-3 hours, since it is basically being wasted, at least in terms of helping muscle growth. Rather a pulse fashion, of periods of no food, with larger protein intakes show superior results. Muscles seem to have receptor sites to amino acids, similiar to with insulin, and once they are exposed to amino acids (protein) they become desensitised for some time, similar to insulin resistance (diabetes). The 2 best ways to increase muscle sensitivity to amino acids is a protein fast (no protein for several hours), or intense muscle contractions, lifting weights.I believe this comes from an evolutionary standpoint as we are similar to predatory animals (wolves, lions, etc), to hunt and kill an animal (anaerobic, like lifting, sprinting) then eating as much of the kill as possible (protein pulse, postworkout protein feeding). Dont buy into needing several small meals a day, you can go that road if you desire but I personally have better things to do than cook food all day or carry shakes everywhere I go.
 
I think eating every 2-3 hours makes sense for carb based diets, as large servings of carbs are not utilized as well as several small intermittent servings of carbs.

Low carb diets don't require so many meals because there is a negligible glycemic response to low carb meals.

PwB,
I understand that this diet has its uses, but I don't see it as a very long-term solution. I don't believe someone on low carbs will be able to bench as much weight for 6 reps as someone on a high carb diet. If this diet is used long-term, performance is definitely compromised and strength can easily be lost. With carb-ups, I can see how it is viable, but not without.

Throw up your one rep max on bench, then let your body adapt to your low carb high fat diet and try it again. I don't believe you will be able to do it.
 
I read this thread over and over and it frustrates me.....how can there be so much of a disparity in opinion in achieving the goals we speak of.......cut carbs? cut fat? cut both........AHHH!:)
 
A couple of suggestions.

Avoid supplementing with iodine. While it does help some it is absoulte trouble for others, its a myth that iodine improves thyroid function and can somtimes severly hinder it.

About the intervals. Depending on LBM this diet could be VLC. Lyle says in his book that aerobic exercise during low-calorie situations lowered metabolism and did nothing for fat loss. PwB, maybe you can clear this up, but can Sprints be considered aerobic?, I've always thought of them as more of an anaerobic exercise.

About the whole enzyme upregulation thing, doesnt the body resort to using an outrageously high percent of its calories from fat at about the third week of ketosis no matter what (I forget what phase of "starvation" this is)?
 
Last edited:
Sprints are definitely anaerobic, not aerobic. I'd be interested in more information on the iodine, where did you get information about it not being beneficial. And it is phase II of starvation where fat burning is greatest, phase III of starvation shifts the body to burning predominantly muscle for energy. If you want more specifics let me know.

Missy, have you been following the plan??? If so how are things going so far?
 
I have no problems with eating protein and fat 2-3 times per day.. A whole lot easier then eatting 6!!!


Butthe thing about no carbs,, even post workout?

You mentioned eat fat to fill out muscles.. cant only carbs do this?

I tried the Crum diet and found it enjoyable... (low carbs, protein/fat diet) I rarely got flat. I always felt pumped. But on ocaasion I felt flat.
How do fat fill muscles up?
Also dont we need to eat protein every few hours to keep nitrogen levls up..


If you only eat 2 times per day... dont you get hungry in between?
 
Top Bottom