Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Chesty...it seems like some people missed or got sidetracked from the basic point of your thread, that in the attempt to be politically correct or more tolerant, etc., this country has become more divided not united. I do think this trend is definitely hurting the country and these divisions will continue to grow. United we stand, divided we fall. It's sad, this is a great country, but I think it is losing many of the things that made it great. Oh well, I hear Australia is nice.
Tower Of Babel
- Thread starter chesty
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Adaptek
New member
THIS THREAD IS SAD!
1. Genesis was written over 3500yrs ago, by Moses. (completed writing in 1513BCE)
2. The bible text quoted is actually events that happened before the bible was written.
3. God commanded man to fill the earth and spread out. Nimrod decided to defy God being a "Might Hunter in Oppostiion to God". So he built the tower of Babel to keep people in one place.
3b. This is why God confused to languages and people spread out, thus all the languages we have today.
4. The text has nothing to do with our day, it is not a prophesy, its is a historical record for our knowledge.
If God did not inspire the Bible as 2 Timothy 3:16 shows then explain the following:
1. In a time before modern science, telescopes, planes, rockets, Isaiah knew the earth was a circular and not flat as people thought up untill a few hundred years ago. (Isaiah 40:22) He also said that God is streching out the heavens. Only recently after examining the further most objects in the universe scientist realized those objects are travelling out expanding or streching the heavens.
2. Job knew the earth was hanging upon nothing (Job26:10). How did he know that? Did he travel to outter space? Everyone else in those times and scientists up untill a few hundred years ago believed the earth to be resting upon something not suspended in gravity.
This list goes on and on, many Bible prophesies have come true and only a few remain. I like the scripture that says:
"The fool has said there is no God." - guess that sums up a lot of people on this thread.
1. Genesis was written over 3500yrs ago, by Moses. (completed writing in 1513BCE)
2. The bible text quoted is actually events that happened before the bible was written.
3. God commanded man to fill the earth and spread out. Nimrod decided to defy God being a "Might Hunter in Oppostiion to God". So he built the tower of Babel to keep people in one place.
3b. This is why God confused to languages and people spread out, thus all the languages we have today.
4. The text has nothing to do with our day, it is not a prophesy, its is a historical record for our knowledge.
If God did not inspire the Bible as 2 Timothy 3:16 shows then explain the following:
1. In a time before modern science, telescopes, planes, rockets, Isaiah knew the earth was a circular and not flat as people thought up untill a few hundred years ago. (Isaiah 40:22) He also said that God is streching out the heavens. Only recently after examining the further most objects in the universe scientist realized those objects are travelling out expanding or streching the heavens.
2. Job knew the earth was hanging upon nothing (Job26:10). How did he know that? Did he travel to outter space? Everyone else in those times and scientists up untill a few hundred years ago believed the earth to be resting upon something not suspended in gravity.
This list goes on and on, many Bible prophesies have come true and only a few remain. I like the scripture that says:
"The fool has said there is no God." - guess that sums up a lot of people on this thread.
WIDELAT - DO YOU KNOW WHAT A HYPOCRITE IS? CHESTY IS NOT ONE. HE ONLY USED THAT PORTION FROM GENESIS AS AN EXAMPLE, NOT TO MAKE HIS POINT FOR HIM...DOLT. THE BIBLE IS A HISTORY BOOK, AND WAS WRITTEN BY MAN. YOU CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING REGARDING IT...IT'S UP TO INDIVIDUAL INTERPRETATION. DO NOT JUDGE SOMEONE ON THE BASIS OF THEIR INTERPRETATION OR RELIGIOUS BELIEF; THAT ONLY MAKES YOU COME OFF AS AN ASSHOLE. AND STOP WRITING IN ALL CAPS AND GO BACK TO GRAMMAR SCHOOL YOU FUCKWIT!!!
Adaptek - you are completely off-topic. Chesty did not attempt to start a religious debate as your post suggests. You pointed out some interesting passages from the Bible, but as I said to Widelat, you cannot prove WHEN the Bible was written without taking various passages as being literal. Again, it's up to individual interpretation. And as I also said to Widelat, judging someone based on their religious beliefs is childish and only shows your bigotry.
CYCLEON - you, too, made some points, but like Adaptek you strayed from Chesty's point. He did not say the WORLD is moving into a dangerous downward spiral, but the United States. Because many scientific & technological advancements have been made worldwide in the last several decades, that has nothing to do with the facts Chesty pointed out.
Chesty made total sense and his obvservations are correct. It, too, pisses me off that the U.S. lets most anyone immigrate and they aren't even required to learn the official language of the country to which they are immigrating. Tell me, would any of you decide to move to France, Germany, Mexico/South America, or an Asian or Middle Eastern country & expect that country to make special provisions for you because you're too phukin' lazy to learn their language? Would you expect that country to bend over for you? Hell no! I for one would get my ass into some classes and learn the domestic language so I could COMMUNICATE with the masses in their own language. I would not expect the citizens of that country to understand my foreign language, but would work to assimilate myself into their culture. It royally pisses me off when I speak with someone over the phone or in person who I expect assistance from (say in a store) or who is asking me for help, but they cannot even form a sentence or understand plain English. I am not speaking of tourists, but of people who have immigrated to our country. It's a slap in the face to many native-born Americans that people come here to enjoy all the benefits of the U.S., but are unwilling to put in the effort to learn our language.
And to CYCLEON, I would feel the same way if I were from another country where English was not the official language. Yes, English is probably the widest spoken language throughout the world, but if I were Russian, Swedish, or Chinese I'd feel exactly the same about the situation.
mrbill - Australia is a melting pot of cultures & races as well. I spent four months there and the country is made up of European, Asian and some Middle Eastern cultures. What they DID do, however, was to make the excellent decision of stopping open immigration. Now it's very difficult to become a permanent resident or citizen of Australia...THE AUSSIES PULLED THEIR HEAD OUT! WHEN WILL WE?
Adaptek - you are completely off-topic. Chesty did not attempt to start a religious debate as your post suggests. You pointed out some interesting passages from the Bible, but as I said to Widelat, you cannot prove WHEN the Bible was written without taking various passages as being literal. Again, it's up to individual interpretation. And as I also said to Widelat, judging someone based on their religious beliefs is childish and only shows your bigotry.
CYCLEON - you, too, made some points, but like Adaptek you strayed from Chesty's point. He did not say the WORLD is moving into a dangerous downward spiral, but the United States. Because many scientific & technological advancements have been made worldwide in the last several decades, that has nothing to do with the facts Chesty pointed out.
Chesty made total sense and his obvservations are correct. It, too, pisses me off that the U.S. lets most anyone immigrate and they aren't even required to learn the official language of the country to which they are immigrating. Tell me, would any of you decide to move to France, Germany, Mexico/South America, or an Asian or Middle Eastern country & expect that country to make special provisions for you because you're too phukin' lazy to learn their language? Would you expect that country to bend over for you? Hell no! I for one would get my ass into some classes and learn the domestic language so I could COMMUNICATE with the masses in their own language. I would not expect the citizens of that country to understand my foreign language, but would work to assimilate myself into their culture. It royally pisses me off when I speak with someone over the phone or in person who I expect assistance from (say in a store) or who is asking me for help, but they cannot even form a sentence or understand plain English. I am not speaking of tourists, but of people who have immigrated to our country. It's a slap in the face to many native-born Americans that people come here to enjoy all the benefits of the U.S., but are unwilling to put in the effort to learn our language.
And to CYCLEON, I would feel the same way if I were from another country where English was not the official language. Yes, English is probably the widest spoken language throughout the world, but if I were Russian, Swedish, or Chinese I'd feel exactly the same about the situation.
mrbill - Australia is a melting pot of cultures & races as well. I spent four months there and the country is made up of European, Asian and some Middle Eastern cultures. What they DID do, however, was to make the excellent decision of stopping open immigration. Now it's very difficult to become a permanent resident or citizen of Australia...THE AUSSIES PULLED THEIR HEAD OUT! WHEN WILL WE?
Thank you, as I stated, this was not a religious debate just an observation.
But for the sake of our religious zealot's, what if the god of the bible was nothing more than a highly advanced race that visited earth at a time when man was still in his infancy and explained things to him at a level his infant mind could handle.
Everything contained in the bible can be adequately explained using the premise that it was an advanced race that visited earth. Nothing to do with a diety.
I find that the whole acceptance of god or science as a crutch to cradle us when we don't understand or can't accept something. Such as death. What happens to us after the only assured and permanent action to ever happen to us?
What came before the big bang (which has been proven btw)?
What is beyond the bounderies of the Universe?
Is there a sub-space universe?
The list of questions goes on for forever. That which science cannot explain completely is conveniently explained by the presence of god.
I also find that those who believe in god, attribute science as being false.
I have a great friend, who is an awesome engineer, but he is a bible thumper from heaven. But I find his logic flawed in many areas. But I know from experience, arguing or discussing the thing with him is futile.
As for the earth being round. Only one possibility, it was observed from orbit.
As for the Universe expanding, Aristotle, Ptolemy and others proposed models that suggested that (I believe they did, my history is rough)
Just because it was written in the bible does not make it divine unless you want to believe that. Too me that is fine, I respect your beliefs in your god, that is what makes this country great and I will not force upon you my beliefs or tell you that you are wrong.
That being said back to the topic please.
But for the sake of our religious zealot's, what if the god of the bible was nothing more than a highly advanced race that visited earth at a time when man was still in his infancy and explained things to him at a level his infant mind could handle.
Everything contained in the bible can be adequately explained using the premise that it was an advanced race that visited earth. Nothing to do with a diety.
I find that the whole acceptance of god or science as a crutch to cradle us when we don't understand or can't accept something. Such as death. What happens to us after the only assured and permanent action to ever happen to us?
What came before the big bang (which has been proven btw)?
What is beyond the bounderies of the Universe?
Is there a sub-space universe?
The list of questions goes on for forever. That which science cannot explain completely is conveniently explained by the presence of god.
I also find that those who believe in god, attribute science as being false.
I have a great friend, who is an awesome engineer, but he is a bible thumper from heaven. But I find his logic flawed in many areas. But I know from experience, arguing or discussing the thing with him is futile.
As for the earth being round. Only one possibility, it was observed from orbit.
As for the Universe expanding, Aristotle, Ptolemy and others proposed models that suggested that (I believe they did, my history is rough)
Just because it was written in the bible does not make it divine unless you want to believe that. Too me that is fine, I respect your beliefs in your god, that is what makes this country great and I will not force upon you my beliefs or tell you that you are wrong.
That being said back to the topic please.
Adaptek
New member
I actually love science - it brings me closer to God
I always trust the bible over science however. As I explained in my last post, people thought they would sail off the edge of the earth because scientist of their time said the earth was flat. People who believed in the bible knew it was not.
Well no one said the big bang did not happen. The bible does not say it happened but that does not rule it out. God is the source of all energy for the universe. He has harnessed energy in things like tiny atoms that when altered can cause massive devastating explosions. So it is not unthinkable that God could have used a similar force to create the universe.
Its funny because whenever I speak to scientists about this and evolution we always get down to the last question:
How, why, who or what?
1. Caused the big bang to happen, leaving us with a universe that is awesome in its precision.
2. Caused the first life blocks to come together.
Its funny that many people put this to chance. The more you study the universe the more you see it was put together in a marvelous way.
Call him what you like, call God an alien or diety but he does exist and he did create this universe.
Hebrews 3:4 "Every house has its maker but he that constructed all things is God."
Simple common sense if you saw a beautifully constructed house, would you assume it got there by chance just because you did not see the maker?
One more scripture: "Wisdom of man is foolishness with God"
Hence why we are here trying to figure out how God did everything.
Einstein who appreciated the way the universe works said if he could ask God one question it would be: "How?"
Anyway you guys get back to your little topic.
I always trust the bible over science however. As I explained in my last post, people thought they would sail off the edge of the earth because scientist of their time said the earth was flat. People who believed in the bible knew it was not.
Well no one said the big bang did not happen. The bible does not say it happened but that does not rule it out. God is the source of all energy for the universe. He has harnessed energy in things like tiny atoms that when altered can cause massive devastating explosions. So it is not unthinkable that God could have used a similar force to create the universe.
Its funny because whenever I speak to scientists about this and evolution we always get down to the last question:
How, why, who or what?
1. Caused the big bang to happen, leaving us with a universe that is awesome in its precision.
2. Caused the first life blocks to come together.
Its funny that many people put this to chance. The more you study the universe the more you see it was put together in a marvelous way.
Call him what you like, call God an alien or diety but he does exist and he did create this universe.
Hebrews 3:4 "Every house has its maker but he that constructed all things is God."
Simple common sense if you saw a beautifully constructed house, would you assume it got there by chance just because you did not see the maker?
One more scripture: "Wisdom of man is foolishness with God"
Hence why we are here trying to figure out how God did everything.
Einstein who appreciated the way the universe works said if he could ask God one question it would be: "How?"
Anyway you guys get back to your little topic.
The only problem I have with that is that, it is way too convenient to just say wow, look at the marvelous structure, someone must have created it. But, then, who created the creator? Of course bible people will say there is no one beyond god? But why not? Becuase it is written down? What about the other faiths and religions?
Don't you think it plausible that there are other intelligent life out in the Universe? And if so, who or what would be their god?
Why does something because of its complexity have to be attributed to a divine being?
You see, I still find the quaint answers of the bible as filling in gaps in our knowledge that we cannot answer or are unwilling to answer.
Bible dudes are just the same as the scientists in their responses to each other.
It has been proven that sometimes effect can precede the cause, hmmm? That is very interesting. That could lend itself to the theory that man is really his own god. And that we set in motion our own creation.
Now, I have a question. Why is it according to the bible that the whole of existence is only around 10,000 years old, yet there is irrefutable proof of existence to 14 billion years ago and farther?
Leave carbon dating out of this.
Don't you think it plausible that there are other intelligent life out in the Universe? And if so, who or what would be their god?
Why does something because of its complexity have to be attributed to a divine being?
You see, I still find the quaint answers of the bible as filling in gaps in our knowledge that we cannot answer or are unwilling to answer.
Bible dudes are just the same as the scientists in their responses to each other.
It has been proven that sometimes effect can precede the cause, hmmm? That is very interesting. That could lend itself to the theory that man is really his own god. And that we set in motion our own creation.
Now, I have a question. Why is it according to the bible that the whole of existence is only around 10,000 years old, yet there is irrefutable proof of existence to 14 billion years ago and farther?
Leave carbon dating out of this.
Adaptek
New member
I like you chesty. You are like me, you have alot of questions. I question everything. Basically your questions ask about the knowledge of God.
Its going to be really hard to explain every single question that you have here on a discussion board however:
According to the bible God does not have a beggining or an end. He has always been here and always will. If there was no God, they would be no life. God is the most supreme being in existance. There are other intelligent life in the Universe and their true God is the same one we believe in. Other lifeforms are referred to in the bible as angels and demons. In other words good intelligent life and bad intelligent life.
If you bought a VCR and did not have a clue how to use it, wouldnt you turn to the manual? The bible is the manual God has given, and it explains the "gaps".
I like the words you use "irrefutable proof of existence to 14 billion years ago and farther". Now you know and I know that there is not irrefutable proof because man does not have the capabilites to date things accurately. However:
The bible states human existance to around 6000 years. Incidently there is no proof to say otherwise, no indications that man has lived beyond around 6000yrs has been found.
The bible and a lot of other religions and civilizations speak of a flood. This is also recognized by science. The bible also explains why we have a lot of different religions. Babel was actually a center of false religion in opposition to God. It was later named Babylon. All false religion has its origins in Babylon. - you would have to research this.
The universe itself has been around millions of years, I agree. The earth also is an ancient creation. God created everything in 6 days. These days are creative days. The hebrew word used for days can either mean a literal day or an extended period of time.
In this case it obviously was an extended peroid of time. The day is a way of explaining the different periods/stages God created things in.
Email or PM me for more info.
Its going to be really hard to explain every single question that you have here on a discussion board however:
According to the bible God does not have a beggining or an end. He has always been here and always will. If there was no God, they would be no life. God is the most supreme being in existance. There are other intelligent life in the Universe and their true God is the same one we believe in. Other lifeforms are referred to in the bible as angels and demons. In other words good intelligent life and bad intelligent life.
If you bought a VCR and did not have a clue how to use it, wouldnt you turn to the manual? The bible is the manual God has given, and it explains the "gaps".
I like the words you use "irrefutable proof of existence to 14 billion years ago and farther". Now you know and I know that there is not irrefutable proof because man does not have the capabilites to date things accurately. However:
The bible states human existance to around 6000 years. Incidently there is no proof to say otherwise, no indications that man has lived beyond around 6000yrs has been found.
The bible and a lot of other religions and civilizations speak of a flood. This is also recognized by science. The bible also explains why we have a lot of different religions. Babel was actually a center of false religion in opposition to God. It was later named Babylon. All false religion has its origins in Babylon. - you would have to research this.
The universe itself has been around millions of years, I agree. The earth also is an ancient creation. God created everything in 6 days. These days are creative days. The hebrew word used for days can either mean a literal day or an extended period of time.
In this case it obviously was an extended peroid of time. The day is a way of explaining the different periods/stages God created things in.
Email or PM me for more info.
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Yes, there is irrefutable proof of the age of the Universe as being around 14 billion years old. Because the farthest objects are that far away, and therefore, their light just now reaching us was issued out 14 billions years ago. We can date things accurately, just like we know the precise timeline of existence of the dinosaurs and when they became extinct.
Yes, I question religion and its motivations. Man has been around much longer than 6000 years, it is just that some refuse to believe in evolution. To which I say why couldn't it be so. The god of the bible never gave out the recipe for life so why not have it evolve?
I never take anything at face value and unless it can be proven I will not believe in it. That is too say, if you could not prove that 1+1 equals 2 I would not believe it because someone said so. I have faith in science because all of its theories can be proven or disproven sooner or later. It does not require a god for existence nor does it require a hell for disobedience.
I also wonder why if it is to be taken on faith why there is a movement to prove the existence of god. Isn't it the faith that get you into heaven and a lack there of by which you are kept out?
I know every answer that can be given to every question I ask because I used to preach this stuff. But in the year of 1987 the god of the bible ceased to exist for me and never will exist again. Long story, but for me that is my truth.
Yes, I question religion and its motivations. Man has been around much longer than 6000 years, it is just that some refuse to believe in evolution. To which I say why couldn't it be so. The god of the bible never gave out the recipe for life so why not have it evolve?
I never take anything at face value and unless it can be proven I will not believe in it. That is too say, if you could not prove that 1+1 equals 2 I would not believe it because someone said so. I have faith in science because all of its theories can be proven or disproven sooner or later. It does not require a god for existence nor does it require a hell for disobedience.
I also wonder why if it is to be taken on faith why there is a movement to prove the existence of god. Isn't it the faith that get you into heaven and a lack there of by which you are kept out?
I know every answer that can be given to every question I ask because I used to preach this stuff. But in the year of 1987 the god of the bible ceased to exist for me and never will exist again. Long story, but for me that is my truth.
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