Too much Squatting??

[Fatty4You]

Show me any powerlifter who relys on leg ext/curl and not the squat or dead for leg strength.....my guess is you wont find one.

First off, I am not a powerlifter, so strength is not my most important goal. Not to say i am not trying to get stronger, but if i get big without getting strong, i am fine with that.

Second, i am not saying to NOT use squats or deads as you seem to think i was saying. I use them in CONJUNCTION with squats and deads. I would never leave out squats, its what kills my legs so good. I was just saying that in addition to sqauts and deads, more concentratino style exersizes should not be considered useless.

Plus, lets say you have imbalances in leg strength. For instance, if one leg was just stronger, or perhaps you, like my friend, tore his hamstring and was 50% strong in one hamstring, you could use unilateral exercises to help even things out.

Now, you say, "Show me a powerlifter, blah blah blah", well i say, show me a bodybuilder who never uses leg curls/extensions as part of their workout? I have never met one in person.

-Fatty

 

[needsize]

Now, you say, "Show me a powerlifter, blah blah blah", well i say, show me a bodybuilder who never uses leg curls/extensions as part of their workout? I have never met one in person.

-Fatty

I'd say I'm a pretty advanced bodybuilder and I never use any of them

 

[Zyglamail]

Leg estensions put a lot of sheering force on the knee as needsize suggested as for a body builder that doesnt do them, just look above at needsizes avatar and ask him how often he does leg extension/curls. The man has an awesome set of wheels.


On a side note, show me a powerlifter with small legs, if you dont think strength training gives you mass your sadly mistaken. I like mass as much as the next guy but lets face it I want my mass to be fully funtional, not just for looks.

 

[Fatty4You]

I am not disputing Needsize's size. Clearly he is a big dude. But honestly, one person doesn't convince me.

I think you fellas are being too close minded about this whole thing. If you dont want to do the exercises then don't do them. But i think it is sad to look at lifting in such a narrow way. There is no one set way that will work. The body needs variation in exercises/ reps / tempo/ angles/ etc etc. And everyone is different and everyone has their own exercises that work for them.

To say that no one should ever use a particular exercise [except those that are likely to cause injury] is to be foolish and ignorant.

I am not trying to be offensive, i just think maybe you are to engrained in your ways to see things objectively.

-Fatty

 

[needsize]

Thanks for the props Zyg

Anyway, I dont think that I'm stuck in my ways, in fact, I think I'm the exact opposite for the most part. I am a hardgainer who started at 140lbs when I started training, and who had to fight for every ounce gained over the years. I've since gone from 140-230lbs, but its taken me ten years, and during that time I've tried every training approach known to man, and even came up with some decent variations myself. One thing that I became an "expert" on was what didnt work for me, and all of the machines like cables, pec dec, leg extensions, etc, never built me any size. The only stuff that ever worked was the heavy compound movements. I wish it were different though, if I could use a machine to build say a big back, without having to deadlift well over 500lbs for reps like I have to, I'd be all over that.

 

[Zyglamail]

To say that no one should ever use a particular exercise [except those that are likely to cause injury] is to be foolish and ignorant.

I am not trying to be offensive, i just think maybe you are to engrained in your ways to see things objectively.

-Fatty

Since your goal is to be objective, then why the comment on exercises that are likely to cause injury? Are you aware that it has been clinically proven that the stresses on the knee from leg extensions are much more severe than those from squats/deads? Injuries on the compound movements are not cause by the exercise, its caused by improper form.

I dont think either needsize or myself are being narrow minded and we are not necessarily saying they should never be done but I think its safe to say we are both interested in results and getting the most from time spent in the gym and in order to do that you have to lift big to get big. Its about going back to the basics and getting the most from your time and energy.

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks for the props Zyg

No problem, you've worked hard and it definatly shows.

One thing that I became an "expert" on was what didnt work for me, and all of the machines like cables, pec dec, leg extensions, etc, never built me any size. The only stuff that ever worked was the heavy compound movements. I wish it were different though, if I could use a machine to build say a big back, without having to deadlift well over 500lbs for reps like I have to, I'd be all over that.

Your not alone here. Think about it, there isnt a guy on this planet who has built noticable mass using these simple movements. Regardless of the amount of importance people place on these isolation exercises they simply do not give the mass that most of us are looking for.

 

[Fatty4You]

I have not heard that leg extensions have been shown to cause injury. If so, than i can accept that. I am seriously interested in this actually. Do you know of an article I could read about it. I do leg extensions as a final burn exercise, or as a prefatigue exercise, and if they are causing my damage, I should like to stop.

If you could point me to an article or a study that would be great. Thanks,

Fatty

 

[needsize]

I'm also not saying that there arent machines that I will use. Pulldowns, cable rows, some hammer strength stuff, all generally done at the end of my workout, can be beneficial for various reasons, but I really do keep them to a minimum. Its just that the examples that were used, extensions and pec dec, I feel are some of the most useless but over used exercises out there, but again that is just my opinion.
Specifically about leg extensions, I have read articles talking about the shearing force caused by it, I just dont save articles. But I've also found it to be true in my own training. I have squatted up to 450lbs for 5 reps ass to the floor with no knee pain at all, but any time I do leg extensions my knees hurt like crazy

 

[Zyglamail]

I have not heard that leg extensions have been shown to cause injury. If so, than i can accept that. I am seriously interested in this actually. Do you know of an article I could read about it. I do leg extensions as a final burn exercise, or as a prefatigue exercise, and if they are causing my damage, I should like to stop.

If you could point me to an article or a study that would be great. Thanks,

Fatty

There are actually many but I dont currently have them bookmarked or anything. If I get time I will try and dig some up. If your joints are in good shape and the exercise does not cause you pain or discomfort you are likely not doing any harm. I was just trying to point out the fact that the actual sheering forces have been measured and due to the support under the upper leg and downward weight applied to the front of the shin, you are actually applying sideways pressure on the joint and all the stress is placed directly on tendons/ligaments. Even in a deep squat the primary forces are applied to the socket itself where they are supposed to be.