Today's 5 x 5 workout and some fun facts

[Jim Ouini]

Hmm so now I'm wondering if I should do my clean pulls in 12 sets of 2 or 8 sets of 3, maybe with 30s inbetween sets during the volume phase, based on the info in this thread

 

[Madcow2]

Sets of 5 are fine (Starr did write the program for cleans and pulls). The clean pull is also a bit less technical than the full clean so unless you are wayyy out there you'll be fine. 5x5 is fine for the power clean and related lifts, much more, particularly multiple sets of 8-10 etc... are where this stuff gets into issues. Read last sentence in this post more carefully: http://elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4915308&postcount=27. If you read post 28 he's also fairly familiar with Starr's protocols.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Sets of 5 are fine (Starr did write the program for cleans and pulls). The clean pull is also a bit less technical than the full clean so unless you are wayyy out there you'll be fine. 5x5 is fine for the power clean and related lifts, much more, particularly multiple sets of 8-10 etc... are where this stuff gets into issues. Read last sentence in this post more carefully: http://elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4915308&postcount=27. If you read post 28 he's also fairly familiar with Starr's protocols.

I'll keep 'em at 5...right at the limit of some lapses in form for me, definitely something for me to keep awares of.

Wk 1 Day 2
BW after workout = 194

Box squats
Warmup to 205 x 5 x 5

I widened my stance a bit, almost as wide as my sumo stance. Felt real good.

One guy who I see often at the gym comes up to me and says 'It always seems like you're squatting, don't you do anything else?'

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 295 x 5 x 5

Felt good, moderately hard and I lost count of my reps one set so I might've done an extra one.

Push Press
Warmup to 115 x 5 x 5

Last set was more 'push' than 'press'. These are tough for me after deads.

Pullups
25 x 5 x 4, BW x 5

Had to drop the weight on the last set since I barely got the last rep on set #4. I think I figured out why these are harder 2nd time around - I'm 16lbs heavier

Anyway, only 2 more Wednesday's to go - Wks 3 and 4....

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 3 Day 1
BW after workout = 195

Actually at home I've been 197-199 throughout the day, so up maybe 3-4lbs from end of 1st run through. Feeling some around the midsection but I don't care

Full Squat
Warmup to 275 x 5 x 5

Not too bad, maybe should've gone higher but with some form issues still present thought I'd make sure I could get the reps in.

My knee was/is bothering me so by necessity I widened my stance maybe a bit past shoulder width...I think I'll stick with this for now. At the very least it'll give me one less thing to think about.

Bench
Warmup to 265 x 5 (failed on 4 rep).

Actually I asked for 260 and the guy I was working in with put on 2 10's. So I said what the hell. The first 3 were real easy and then I just hit the wall on reps 4-5, although I was still pushing.

Clean Pull Low
Warmup to 275 x 5

Good sets. The gym was quite crowded and because I had to wait for a bench and working in with somebody I had some rest time between squats and clean pulls. Plus I focused on 'snapping my hips', I think is the term, and that helped.

Note: So this guy I was working in with on bench is a pretty young PT at the gym and was quite chatty, said he was training for a natural body building contest. Nice guy I guess, real enthusiastic about working out and training.

He asked me if I knew who Ronnie Coleman was and I said yes...so he told me he eats BBQ chicken breasts just like Ronnie Coleman, and he's gained 10lbs on that new supplement Ronnie endorses something called NO2 Explode I think.

Thus I kinda knew he was on a BB program, so when he benched he went to failure every set up to his 2 rep max and I helped him with 2 negs. Then when I was only doing 5 on my way up he kept egging me on to do 7 or 8 or 10. I politely kept saying 'no I'm OK with 5' and he really looked disappointed at my lack of effort.

When we were finished he said 'What's next, inclines?' and I told him no I'm done I have to do clean pulls and now he REALLY looked at me funny.

Anyway point of the story is that it's always funny when the 2 methods of training collide, now that I'm on the DF wave dropping words like 'intensity' at the gym can send a conversation into a downward spiral.

 

[blut wump]

I've had that too: asked for a spot from someone, just in case, and then he couldn't understand why I'd stop before needing him.

One word of warning from my own recent experience: my hips have been really sore and tired from the wide-stance squat work. So sore that I've had trouble getting down low even with just the bar until I reverted to a narrower stance. I think maybe I was overdoing the weight on the wide box squats rather than treating it as a light day2 squat. I feel that I have a lot more to push against and a more stable base with a wide stance but it definitely brings the hips in a lot more. Maybe it won't bother you but I was starting to suffer. Still, it didn't kill me so it should make me stronger.

 

[Madcow2]

One word of warning from my own recent experience: my hips have been really sore and tired from the wide-stance squat work. So sore that I've had trouble getting down low even with just the bar until I reverted to a narrower stance. I think maybe I was overdoing the weight on the wide box squats rather than treating it as a light day2 squat.

FYI - wide stance PL squats are much more taxing on the body. I doubt anyone can really hammer these in this program 3x per week for long with equipment and all - just too much. The fact that you were using them for the light Wednesday squat and that the weight was heavier than your 1x5 weight on Friday only makes this worse.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I've had that too: asked for a spot from someone, just in case, and then he couldn't understand why I'd stop before needing him.

One word of warning from my own recent experience: my hips have been really sore and tired from the wide-stance squat work. So sore that I've had trouble getting down low even with just the bar until I reverted to a narrower stance. I think maybe I was overdoing the weight on the wide box squats rather than treating it as a light day2 squat. I feel that I have a lot more to push against and a more stable base with a wide stance but it definitely brings the hips in a lot more. Maybe it won't bother you but I was starting to suffer. Still, it didn't kill me so it should make me stronger.

Yeah I've been playing around with my stance on the box as well. I've been going 20% lighter on the box than on Monday's squat.

My width is about as wide as my sumo dead, which is where my toes (pointed out about 45 degrees) are about 4-6 inches from the collar.

Should be interesting tomorrow since I have to go for my max 5 x 5 box squat, followed by my max dead and with my stances being pretty similar for both...ugh.

 

[blut wump]

That was one of the reasons I decided to stick with conventional-style deadlifts. I started intending to be light on the box squats but got too enthusiastic with them. I guess I can chalk it up as another mistake I'll be unlikely to repeat for a while and hope that the extra rest of the 2x deload will be enough to bale me out.

I did box squats on Monday week5 and felt tight but ok. I'll be sticking with the narrow Oly stance for my day2 deepsquats during deload. Thanks for the info madcow.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Yeah I was kind of betwixt and between, what with full squats, light box squats with wide stance, sumo deads and cleanpulls I finally just said screw it I'm fatiguing anyway it probably won't make much difference one way or the other.

I'll probably do 2x deload also.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 3 Day 2
BW after workout = 196.52

Box squats
Warmup to 225 x 5 x 5

My knee was still bothering me in addition to my right quad feeling a bit tweaked so I was dreading these. Still the weights were OK and probably good for this week. Next week I'll try 245 I think.

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 335 x 5 x 5

My friend showed up right at about my 2nd set and said 'Hey I've never deadlifted before let me try it'. Well he's a big boy about 6-2 240 and he was able to muscle it up with pretty decent form.

I hate it when dudes warm up with my max

My last set I tried conventional style and it went up real easy, actually easier than my sumo. Hmm.

Push Press
Warmup to 130 x 5 x 5

Ugh. Have I mentioned I suck at these? Failed last set at 4.

Pullups
30 x 5 x 4, BW x 5

I used to be good at these but that was 20lbs ago

Note: OK I don't mean to be a butthead but today I saw something really ridiculous, even for Bally's. A couple guys were on the leg press, one of them works there, he always has that lat spread thing going and rolls his short sleeves up you know so we can see his 20 inch pythons.

Anyhoo, he loads up the machine with 9 plates per side...then they parade across the gym carrying over a bar with 45's which they put on top of the leg press.

Then the set begins and sure enough about 6in range of motion, grunting and gasping (otherwise I wouldn't have noticed ) - but to make it worse the other guy has his hands on the platform pushing up on it every rep.

I just don't understand this.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 3 Day 3
BW after workout = 197

Squat
Warmup to 315 x 5

My knee and right quad really hurt even warming up. I took it really slow being mindful to stop as soon as I felt any pain. Luckily, it seemed to lessen as I got heavier. Still, I wasn't able to go past parallel so they were actually pretty easy.

Bench
Warmup to 245 x 5 x 5

Tough 5 sets, especially 4th and 5th set. Had to grind em out but happy I got 'em.

Clean Pull Low
Warmup to 245 x 5 x 5

Felt good. Tired, though. I need the weekend to recuperate

Note: A first! Someone asked me for a spot on the leg press. Well not really a spot he wanted a 'lift off'. He must've seen the quizzical look on my face so he explained that '6 plates is my max' and to just push with my hands on the platform to 'get it going'.

 

[Madcow2]

Looks like it's going great. That bodyweight sure did jump up nicely once you pegged the diet snafu and the lifts are nice and solid. If you start getting too fat, you know to cut back a bit. I wouldn't do it previous to deloading and the next period though, those extra calories might find their way into some muscle yet.

One word of caution. You are loading fairly heavily with an injury. Really watch the squats and use good judgement. It's not worth getting sidelined for months.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Looks like it's going great. That bodyweight sure did jump up nicely once you pegged the diet snafu and the lifts are nice and solid. If you start getting too fat, you know to cut back a bit. I wouldn't do it previous to deloading and the next period though, those extra calories might find their way into some muscle yet.

Yep weight still going up even in the volume phase, so I can't wait for the unloading/intensity. Actually there is a bit of chub around the midsection...I figured it goes with the territory at this stage of the game. It'll be failry easy with my puny appetite to cut back the cals, so I'm feelling OK about it.

One word of caution. You are loading fairly heavily with an injury. Really watch the squats and use good judgement. It's not worth getting sidelined for months.

Yep that thought crossed my mind as I got under the bar...it's hard to turn away a workout due to a bit of pain though because of where you are in a cycle (at least for me).

But I know it's either lose 3 wks of work or be sidelined for longer

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 4 Day 1
BW after workout = 195

Squat
Warmup to 315 x 5 x 5

I wore a neoprene sleeve on my left knee; don't know if it helped but it did keep it nice and warm. Again, only able to go to parallel so these weren't too hard.

Actually this is more like my first run through of the 5 x 5 in terms of weights and form...so I haven't exactly built upon it or progressed much since then because I wanted to do full squats this cycle.

Unfortunately my knee pain put a stop to that. Hopefully this lack of progression doesn't negatively affect my results.

Bench
Warmup to 265 x 5 (failed on 4 rep).

Got help on last 2. 4th was grinding up, 5th I almost lost a molar

Clean Pull
Warmup to 280 x 5

 

[blut wump]

I twisted my knee over the weekend at the end of week3 on my previous run and knew that squats were no longer an option at all so just went straight into deload. It just means that I missed an intensity phase and didn't get the week4 of loading but the loading over the first phase still gives benefits. If you are able to recover within a couple of weeks than you can dive straight back into another run feeling completely fresh and already reasonably conditioned or do a short intensity run and then restart.

Look at it this way: with the knee pain you're maybe not loading this week on the squats, anyway, and the sooner it's resting the sooner it'll be healed and ready to go again and, this next time through, the knees will be better used to deepsquatting.

Then again, I don't want to be throwing negative vibes at you. If you're still getting worthwhile squats out then it might be better to tough the week out and go into the 2x per week deload and play it by ear (or knee). Especially so if you can switch over to wide box squats as your main Monday squat to help keep stress away from your knees.

 

[Jim Ouini]

If you're still getting worthwhile squats out then it might be better to tough the week out and go into the 2x per week deload and play it by ear (or knee). Especially so if you can switch over to wide box squats as your main Monday squat to help keep stress away from your knees.

Thanks for the good advice, I hadn't even considered dropping the 4th week.

My knee feels 'OK' and I can get through my squats alright so I'll trudge on for 2 more workouts.

But will probably do the 2x deload as you suggest. I think I'm about ready for it - sleeping a lot, feel like I'm dragging my body around etc etc

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 4 Day 2
BW after workout = 198
Workout time = 2.5hrs

Box squats
Warmup to 245 x 5 x 5

A buddy of mine showed up and said he was squatting today with his new 'sit back on the toilet' technique. So I sugggested he box squat with me; it helped to have a partner, except after a set I'd be tired and bleeding and sweating; after his sets he'd shout 'I love it!'

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 365 x 5 x 5

Well I don't know if I'm stronger or if I'm just working harder this time around, but this was my Wk 9 3 x 3 max. But since 335 was hard but doable last week I gave it a go. Plus I want to build up to a 405 attempt in Wk 8 or 9.

First time I've felt a sticking point at lockout, usually once I get it past my knees it's pretty easy. So this was a good weight, happy with 5 x 5 here but they were HARD.

Afterwards, I've never begged off a workout that I can remember but I seriously just wanted to go home after deads and curl up in the fetal position.

Push Press
Warmup to 135 x 5 x 5

Actually decent this time. Not sure why.

Pullups
35 x 5 x 3, BW x 5 x 2

Wore a neoprene sleeve on the left elbow which has been giving me problems for months on weighted pullups. I think it helped, well at least my elbow, pullups are still hard now that I'm heavier. I seem to hit the wall at 3 reps regardless of the weight.

Euphoric that Wk 5 is around the corner.

 

[Madcow2]

Nice deads. Even better considering you squatted 9125 total pounds (365x5x5) beforehand and still matched the previous 3x3 best (without squatting I believe - you did the 3x per week intensity/deload from what I recall?).

Weighted pullups aren't worth your elbow. Lay off and let it heal for a bit. It will be guaranteed to get worse if you keep pounding on it (overuse injury or similar). Switch your grip to chins or some such if that helps and just do bodyweight for a few sets. Even pulldowns are fine (this is is when machines come in handy) change grip for this too.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Nice deads. Even better considering you squatted 9125 total pounds (365x5x5) beforehand and still matched the previous 3x3 best (without squatting I believe - you did the 3x per week intensity/deload from what I recall?).

Thanks! But actually I only squatted 245 x 5 x 5 off a box today, but yeah I am quite pleased I matched my Wk 9 3 x 3 PR (no squat back then; did the 3x week intensity/deload but spread it out over several weeks)

Weighted pullups aren't worth your elbow. Lay off and let it heal for a bit. It will be guaranteed to get worse if you keep pounding on it (overuse injury or similar). Switch your grip to chins or some such if that helps and just do bodyweight for a few sets. Even pulldowns are fine (this is is when machines come in handy) change grip for this too.

Thanks for the advice. I did take solace in the fact that I think you said pullups weren't critical to the success of the program.

I think I'll do chins from here on in since they are a bit easier on the 'bow. Will give me some more bicep work too

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks! But actually I only squatted 245 x 5 x 5 off a box today, but yeah I am quite pleased I matched my Wk 9 3 x 3 PR (no squat back then; did the 3x week intensity/deload but spread it out over several weeks)

Nah, I take the compliment back. LOL . It's still A LOT of work pre-deadlift. You don't squat 5x5 with any reasonable weight and not deal with some fatigue so that should still be something to keep you pumped as 365x5x5 is a heck of a lot more than 3x3 - 9 reps vs. 25 if you want to look at it that way or a bit shy of 200% more work.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Nah, I take the compliment back. LOL

It's still A LOT of work pre-deadlift. You don't squat 5x5 with any reasonable weight and not deal with some fatigue so that should still be something to keep you pumped as 365x5x5 is a heck of a lot more than 3x3 - 9 reps vs. 25 if you want to look at it that way or a bit shy of 200% more work.

Hadn't thought of it that way This being my second run through I wasn't expecting much strength gain in the first 4 weeks (like I did in my 1st cycle), but my dead is up and so is my bench.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 4 Day 3
BW after workout = 198

Squat
Warmup to 345 x 5

Man was I whupped from Wed's workout. My low back, hams and glutes were gone so squats were really hard. 225 felt like 315. I'm not even sure what 345 felt like

Bench
Warmup to 250 x 5 x 5 (failed 5th rep on 5th set)

I checked my log from 1st run through Wk 4 5 x 5 bench; I was only at 230 and failed on my last couple sets. So my bench is definitely better.

Clean Pull Low
Warmup to 250 x 5 x 5

Contemplated a belt on these due to tired low back but said 'nah' and was able to get a second wind and keep it tight.

I think my traps are bigger from these already.

Anyway, I'm really glad this volume phase is completed, it was a lot tougher this time around, especially this week. Whether I got my weights pegged better or whatever.

 

[blut wump]

Congrats. I think as you get stronger and better conditioned you push yourself harder and it all takes even more out of you.

Have a happy deload.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Thanks ya.

I believe you're doing 2x week deload/intensity now? How is it going, compared to last time (where I think you said you did 3x week)?

My first run through I did 3x but spread out over more weeks.

This time I'm thinking about a straight 2x week deload, dropping the Friday workout.

 

[blut wump]

I was pretty bust up after the volume phase, especially with my hips. I feel that I've fully recovered now after these past couple of weeks of deloading.

I dropped the Friday workout and moved Wednesday's to Thursday but I think I'm finding the 2x per week a little too light and almost starting to feel detrained by the time another workout comes around. I was planning to get a lot of extra cardio in but it hasn't happened due to family matters so that might be part of it. I think it's mostly psychological, though, since I haven't suffered with doms or struggled in the gym and it does help with deloading and frees up time for other things.

I was thinking of switching back to 3x but I have no choice this week which will take me to the end of week7 already so I'm just going to see the 2x right to the end and maybe hit the cardio. I remember that weeks 5 and 6 were very light last time through, anyway. It started to feel strenuous in week7 and then 8 and 9 were a grunt again. Maybe this will go the same way but with less burnout towards the end.

I think it's too soon for me either to recommend or decry the 2x per week.

 

[Madcow2]

FYI - if you use the 2x per week you just run it for 2-3 weeks as needed for recovery and then step back into the volume phase. You won't be running it out into weeks 8/9 for records which is specific to the 3x per week. The volume may be too low to draw out into a long productive mesocycle type setup without causing some issues.

 

[blut wump]

I can relate to that. I guess if it were an option for me I might still have been able to flip back to 3x intensity for week7 onwards. I'll just enjoy two more heavy deloading sessions and then my week8 will be a new week1 or maybe it's time to look at the Korte 3x3. I have a week to mull on it.
Thanks.

 

[Madcow2]

I may have mis-written what I said above, I just clarified it in another post so I'll link it here. You can definitely utilize some hybrid of the 2x and 3x to make sure you deload adequately before pushing harder into a 3x per week semi-loading type scenario. You've run both now and know your body. Run it how you like. I tend to really get a lot out of the 3x3 and 1x3 setup before moving back into a higher volume phase, it's just harder to deal with for those who don't know how to manage their workload.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4991352&postcount=45

 

[Guinness5.0]

I don't think you miswrote it- I read it wrong. Somehow I saw you won't as you will .

Also, you said, "I tend to really get a lot out of the 3x3 and 1x3 setup before moving back into a higher volume phase, it's just harder to deal with for those who don't know how to manage their workload."

Should one deload after the 3x3 intensity phase before running another 5x5? Do those first two "easy weeks" of 5x5 count as a deload? Or is the volume of the intensity phase low enough that actual loading isn't likely to occur to the extent that a dedicated deload week is necessary?

 

[Madcow2]

Should one deload after the 3x3 intensity phase before running another 5x5? Do those first two "easy weeks" of 5x5 count as a deload? Or is the volume of the intensity phase low enough that actual loading isn't likely to occur?

With very few exceptions yes. Most people are beaten down using the 3x and working to records. You want to get as much out of the volume/loading phase as possible so unless you have some other macro-structure at work, you'd do well to deload before stepping back into the volume phase. Even a single light week might do it, maybe two or some light hybrid of the volume phase. Remember that as you peg your weights better some people are going to find it advantageous to start higher on week 1.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 5 Day 1 (1st day of deloading and it couldn't have come sooner )
BW after workout = 199

Squat
Warmup to 315 x 3 x 3

Bench
Warmup to 265 x 3

Clean Pull
Warmup to 280 x 3

All felt real good except for squats. Decided to do Tue - Fri as my days for 2x week deloading. I thought having 4 days rest would help but still felt kinda beat up from last week - low back and left knee particularly.

Note: So these 2 guys were discussing the in's and out's of the cable bicep curl for all the gym to hear - standing on a reebok stepper, debating shoulder position, wrist position, elbow angle. I even overheard the word 'enzymes' thrown about somewhere. I never realized it was such a technical lift

 

[Boss101]

Note: So these 2 guys were discussing the in's and out's of the cable bicep curl for all the gym to hear - standing on a reebok stepper, debating shoulder position, wrist position, elbow angle. I even overheard the word 'enzymes' thrown about somewhere. I never realized it was such a technical lift

I love the overthinker at the gym. I saw 2 guys bust out a protracker to get a 35 degree angle on the incline bench. The reason they have a chest like a 10 year old boy is because they have been benching at a 40 degree angle for the last 2 years, it has nothing to do with them benching 115lbs.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 5 Day 2 (2nd day of 2x week deload)

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 365 x 3 x 3

Much easier this week. I"m sure not having to squat beforehand had something to do with it.

Push Press
Warmup to 135 x 3 x 3

Felt strong on these. Maybe I'm finally getting the hang of it.

Chin-ups
35 x 3 x 3

Much much better than pullups. No elbow pain either - will add weight next week.

 

[blut wump]

wot? no squats?
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497645&postcount=11

 

[Jim Ouini]

wot? no squats?
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497645&postcount=11

Man have I ever messed up the 2x deloading.

1st day I did 1x3 bench and clean instead of 3 x 3. 2nd day I forgot to squat.

Oh well, guess I'll just take it from here and make the best of it. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Boss101]

How long are you going to run the 2x deloading phase?

 

[Jim Ouini]

Good question! As soon as I figure it out I'll tell ya

I had planned on 2 or 3 weeks. Since I messed up this first week, I'm thinking 3.

Then I *think* I'm going to run 3x week 1/3 x 3 intensity phase for 3 wks.

Although adding 5-10-20 lbs to some of my lifts will bring me real close to my 3RM's...

 

[Jim Ouini]

I think I'm going to start the 3x week intensity protocol this week.

Week 5 was a 2x deload, albeit messed up.

This week I'll ramp the weights to hit 1/3 x 3 records by Wks 8-9. If I feel loaded again I'll take a day off, though.

 

[blut wump]

Probably a good plan. Week5 is just a holiday week in my experience in an "active rest" sense and it likely makes little difference whether done in 2x or 3x fashion except you rest a shade more doing only 2x.

I'm planning to flip back tomorrow for three weeks as though this next week were a 3x week7. I don't regret the 3 weeks of 2x deloading since I feel well rested and I didn't have a lot of choice, anyway.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 6 Day 1

Squat
Warmup to 335 x 3 x 3

Still have some knee pain so I've been taking it slow/cautious.

Bench
Warmup to 270 x 3

My friend/spotter said I 'smoked' it. Well he's kind of a glass half full kinda guy so I take it with a grain of salt. I didn't feel any sticking points, though. Getting close to my max so next week I may have to bust out the 1lb platemates

Clean Pull
Warmup to 280 x 3

Miscalc'd. Shoud've been heavier since I did 280 last week. Felt pretty easy.

Glad to be back in the gym after last week's vacation

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 6 Day 2

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 385 x 3 x 3

Felt great. I moved my stance in a bit and decreased my foot angle so they were pointing forward more.

My friend was watching my worksets and said they looked 'easy.' Then again, inbetween sets he was telling me a story of how he wrestled a black bear cub to the ground when he lived in Alaska, so who knows how accurate his assessment is.

Still, I'll be bitterly disappointed if I don't get 405 in Wk 8. Debating if I even should attempt it next week, or take it slow like 395. Probably the latter.

Push Press
Warmup to 140 x 3 x 3

Maybe should've gone up a bit more instead of messing around with 2.5's but I thought I'd save some considering this is only Wk 6.

Chin-ups
45 x 3 x 3

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 6 Day 3
BW after workout = 203. Uhm I think the scale at the gym needs to be calibrated (it's one of the sliding ones). Last monday on the same scale I weighed 192.

Weigh about 201 at home on our digital scale.

Squat
Warmup to 345 x 3

Felt terrible. My squat's officially broken.

Bench
Warmup to 265 x 3 x 3

Clean Pull
Warmup to 275 x 3 x 3

 

[Guinness5.0]

Squat
Warmup to 345 x 3

Felt terrible. My squat's officially broken.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Jim Ouini]

Care to elaborate?

Not really, I try not to think about it

I've started having some knee/form trouble - I think due to trying to convert from parallel to ATF floor squats too fast/too heavy.

In fact I still haven't settled on a stance and toe angle.

I *thought* I was ATF towards the latter part of my first run through and had the form dialed in - I get my wife to watch my form (that was my first mistake ) and she says 'below parallel but not ATF'. Well being at the point in the program that I was I didn't want to back off on the weight and kept pushin' on.

As a result my knee's really been bothering me and I'm still not happy with my depth.

Anyway as I've found out and, as MC2 has said on occasion, the 5 x 5 isn't a time to try new techniques/lifts.

So my plan is to finish this cycle as best I can and then take a few weeks doing some core/assistance/form work before diving back into a size/strength phase.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Anyway as I've found out and, as MC2 has said on occasion, the 5 x 5 isn't a time to try new techniques/lifts.

So my plan is to finish this cycle as best I can and then take a few weeks doing some core/assistance/form work before diving back into a size/strength phase.

Sounds exactly like what i'm doing, except that I'm happy with depth but unhappy with the weight being on the balls of my feet.

I think I'm gonna do some GM's for the first time ever after this run, then depending on how they go incorporate them into the next run. A lot of people say they're good for boosting DL #'s.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I think I'm gonna do some GM's for the first time ever after this run, then depending on how they go incorporate them into the next run. A lot of people say they're good for boosting DL #'s.

Yeah I was planning on GM's and pullthroughs. SL/Romanian DL's used to be a staple of mine and I'd throw in GM's as a sub every once in awhile. I really liked them.

I want to do a squat variant - either ATF front or overhead squats. I'm thinking this may help my core stabilization as well.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 7 Day 1
BW after workout = 203.5 (on an iffy scale)

Squat
Warmup to 345 x 3 x 3

Fixed my squat (for now) - decided to find a stance that gives me the least amount of knee pain - which for me is a bit wider than shoulder width and toes pointed out just a tad - and go as low as I can. No more messing around.

Bench
Warmup to 275 x 3

Failed 3rd rep; spotter had to tap it. Will stay here next week.

Clean Pull
Warmup to 295 x 3

Really focused on speed and explosion this week. Felt much better.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 7 Day 2
BW after workout = 203.5

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 395 x 3 x 2, 405 x 3 x 2

395 felt pretty good. I was going to stay there for my 3rd set but then I saw some guy out of the corner of my eye watching me and sure enough he comes up to me asked me 'are those deadlifts?'. He was doing deads with 135 over at some other station and asked me to watch him.

Well he had rounded back and was way over the front of the bar so I pointed that out to him.

After that I thought to myself 'What kind of guy gives advice and can't even do 405?'. So I tried it.

1st rep was shakey, 2-3rd were pretty solid. But then I was worried I did touch and go, although this guy said I didn't. But I couldn't remember .

So I did another set with like a 1 second pause after each rep and this one felt even better.

I am very happy hitting this in Wk 7 (although I'm hoping the extra set is no big deal in terms of too much loading). Best program ever

Push Press
Warmup to 145 x 3 x 3

Pretty easy. I'll take a bigger jump next week.

Chin-ups
50 x 3 x 3

Tough.

 

[Guinness5.0]

There's something magic about 4 plates. Congrats

 

[Jim Ouini]

Thanks! It's a big PR for me.

Damn, it just occurred to me - I forgot to sit on them

 

[blut wump]

Thanks! It's a big PR for me.

Damn, it just occurred to me - I forgot to sit on them

Man, that's like forgetting to stand on the podium. Congrats.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Man, that's like forgetting to stand on the podium. Congrats.

Thanks ya.

I think a deadlift PR is one of the most satisfying things in the gym. Uhm, well I've only had 2, really

There's something about picking something heavy up off the floor.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 7 Day 3
BW after workout = 202.5

Squat
Warmup to 355 x 3

Low back a bit tired from Wed dead. 315 and 335 x 3 w/no belt felt OK. Belted 355 a lot better.

Bench
Warmup to 270 x 3 x 3

Tough sets; had to grind out the 3rd rep on the last 2 sets.

Clean Pull
Warmup to 285 x 3 x 3

As I was finishing up, some guy asked me for a spot on bench. So with 185 he got 3 and I helped him with 3 negs. On his last rep he thrust his butt up off the bench (he had his feet on it too), seriously it was like a decline.

Anyway, I guess he really liked my spotting so he leaps off the bench and exclaims 'I'm going heavier!'. So he calls me over for 225, except all negs this time, again with the butt launch. Well he was so happy he says to me 'Stick around, I'm going up'. I do my last set of cleans and nervously glance over and he's got 275 and I thought OMG.

Well he only did 1 super slow neg, then when he was finished he told me 'I saw you benching, if you tried these negs with 4 plates you'll be doing 315 in no time, guaranteed'. He was actually a really nice guy so I said 'hm I'll have to try that sometime' even though I have no intention of doing that (uhm, unless it works )

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 8 Day 1
BW after workout = 202

Squat
Warmup to 350 x 3 x 3

Felt alright. Used some tips 'n tricks and mental cues from Rippetoe's book 'Starting Strength'. Well I don't think it helped all that much but nice to feel you're informed.

Bench
Warmup to 275 x 2, missed 3rd rep.

Well my spotter had to tap the 3rd rep again. Will try again next week

Clean Pull
Warmup to 315 x 3

Felt good. I like doing these to alternate with my sumo dead on Wed, as far as stances go.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 8 Day 2

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 425 x 3 x 3 *PR*

Pretty happy with this. Some of the fellas were hanging with words of encouragement so that helped.

Oh, I remembered to sit on the 4 plates this time

Push Press
Warmup to 155 x 2, failed 3rd rep. 150 x 2 x 3

Had to bump the weight down. Wasn't getting as much leg drive as before, maybe I was tired.

Chin-ups
55 x 3 x 3

Barely got them. Only got to about eye level

Next week should be fun

 

[Guinness5.0]

Wk 8 Day 2

Dead (sumo)
Warmup to 425 x 3 x 3 *PR*

Holy crap dude! Where did that come from? Nice job.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Thanks!

Well I did 405 last week. And it wasn't too bad, so I was debating if I should do 415 or 425 today. Plus with all the testosterone from those fellas watching me I sure couldn't put a nickel on (I guess that tells you something about the state of deadlifting at my gym lol)

Anyway, I'm not sure how big a jump to try next week. I guess I don't have to worry to much about failing at this point. Any thoughts? since you're in Week 9 right now.

 

[Guinness5.0]

I'd say keep the weight the same. That way you won't pull ahead of me

 

[Jim Ouini]

I'd say keep the weight the same. That way you won't pull ahead of me

No worries, I'm pulling sumo so it's easier

 

[blut wump]

Wow! Nice pulling and congrats on taking the pose this time.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wow! Nice pulling and congrats on taking the pose this time.

Thanks! I did 'The Thinker' pose...

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks! I did 'The Thinker' pose...

LOL - for whatever reason that's the one that seems to come naturally when sitting on the plates. Assuming the pose on the DL bar always reminds me that there is so much to being human - from the physical body to the mind to the spirit. That pose on a loaded barbell seems to always evoke those thoughts in me.

 

[Guinness5.0]

LOL - for whatever reason that's the one that seems to come naturally when sitting on the plates. Assuming the pose on the DL bar always reminds me that there is so much to being human - from the physical body to the mind to the spirit. That pose on a loaded barbell seems to always evoke those thoughts in me.

You guys are deep. All I'm thinking is "crush, kill, destroy" and the occasional "wow nice boobs/legs/butt" (depending on the situation of course).

 

[blut wump]

Strong mind: strong legs

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 8 Day 3
BW after workout = 204

Squat
Warmup to 365 x 3

Had my new oly shoes and it kind of threw off my stance. I don't even think I hit parallel on my 3rd rep. Back tired from deads on Wed, too. /excuses

Bench
Warmup to 275 x 3, 275 x 2 x 2, missed 3rd reps

At least I got one set of 3 (PR ). Couldn't get 3 reps last Monday so I'm pleased I got it today. But I wasn't sure if I should back off to 270 for 2-3rd sets so I just said WTH just leave it, and missed 'em.

Clean Pull
Warmup to 295 x 3 x 3

Oly shoes felt real nice on these, but I couldn't quite get on my tippy toes.

Notes:

Anyway, kind of a crap workout. I think this is one of those times I probably should've taken an extra day, especially at this stage, but I was excited to try my new shoes I should know better, and pushing through failure on bench probably wasn't very wise either.

Cops showed up right at the end of my workout and were talking to some guy doing high cable bicep curls. At first I was thinking, 'What, they gonna arrest people doing side raises next?' But then when I walked out he was sitting on a bench with a couple other guys. I think there must've been a fight on the basketball courts, or some incident in the cardio room, I think I overheard.

 

[Madcow2]

The shoes will change your leverages in the squat. Maybe not the best time to throw them in given that you are setting records but I doubt I'd have been able to restrain myself either. They will make OL variants, deep squats and front squats much easier.

 

[Jim Ouini]

The shoes will change your leverages in the squat. Maybe not the best time to throw them in given that you are setting records but I doubt I'd have been able to restrain myself either. They will make OL variants, deep squats and front squats much easier.

Yeah I could already tell how helpful they'd be when I did my cleans, and was thinking front squats would be great with 'em.

Hey Madcow2, do you think I did any irreparable harm by charging into the weight room today, and pushing past failure on my bench?...I'm thinking I shoulda given myself an extra day, even though I did get a bench PR today (I'm doing 3x deload/intensity). Maybe 4 days off before staring Wk 9? Any way to recover from it?

EDIT: BTW, it's not like I feel bad physically; maybe it's more mental - a bad squat workout kind of has that affect on me.

 

[Madcow2]

It's tough to conclude much from a single workout other than that 'irreparable harm' is highly unlikely since you didn't blow out a joint or die. Mentally the shoes and squat probably threw you off some. Do what you think is best for recuperation and get going. The nature of records is that if you have a bad day, you likely won't be making them. It happens to everyone.

 

[Guinness5.0]

FWIW I'm glad I spread my workouts for week 9 out.

 

[Jim Ouini]

It's tough to conclude much from a single workout other than that 'irreparable harm' is highly unlikely since you didn't blow out a joint or die. Mentally the shoes and squat probably threw you off some. Do what you think is best for recuperation and get going. The nature of records is that if you have a bad day, you likely won't be making them. It happens to everyone.

Well yeah I'm glad I didn't die

I guess I've heard you state a few times that you risk a chance of 'blowing the program' if you don't manage your deload/intensity carefully.

Anyway, it's in the past now, I'll push on and give myself a couple-3 days to finish up my last week.

 

[blut wump]

I think you can stop worrying about blowing the program, Mr PRs All Round.

The program has already been successful and you're addind the extra finishing touches to it. It does sound to me like you might be getting loaded again, though, and deciding to take the extra days is probably a good move.

Those shoes sound like fun. Is there any similarity to using them and having the small plates under your heels? I can try that at the gym as a free trial if there is.

I'm glad you didn't die: that really would have blown the program.

 

[Madcow2]

Well yeah I'm glad I didn't die

I guess I've heard you state a few times that you risk a chance of 'blowing the program' if you don't manage your deload/intensity carefully.

Anyway, it's in the past now, I'll push on and give myself a couple-3 days to finish up my last week.

Generally when you blow it you either start too high on week 1 and can't ramp or weeks 5/6ish don't allow for adequate recovery and you never get the strength increase or rebound and just overtrain going into 7/8/9. You don't really seem to be suffering too badly or to be caught in either of those.

Granted, maybe you can make the case that you need/needed more recovery than you've had to make it through week 9 but that's a tough call on 1 workout especially when you threw new shoes into the mix and were all psyched to hit records.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Those shoes sound like fun. Is there any similarity to using them and having the small plates under your heels? I can try that at the gym as a free trial if there is.

I'd say the plates under the heels will give you an idea of how your weight will distribute, but won't give you a sense of how stable they are, at least I was surprised about it.

It might be because I usually wear these really thin-soled rock climbing shoes that have a pretty small footprint (I guess they barely outline your foot for rock climbing. And no I don't rock climb - too extreme and dangerous, I'd rather put 300lbs on my back and try to lift it )

In comparison I felt like I was nailed to a dry dock with my new shoes. I think a good trial might be some work boots and I've even heard some guys say leather loafers (if you don't mind looking like my dad at Disneyland).

I'm glad you didn't die: that really would have blown the program.

I'll have my wife update my log if I ever really blow the program.

Generally when you blow it you either start too high on week 1 and can't ramp or weeks 5/6ish don't allow for adequate recovery and you never get the strength increase or rebound and just overtrain going into 7/8/9. You don't really seem to be suffering too badly or to be caught in either of those.

Granted, maybe you can make the case that you need/needed more recovery than you've had to make it through week 9 but that's a tough call on 1 workout especially when you threw new shoes into the mix and were all psyched to hit records.

OK, understand. Thanks.

On a related note, I am sore all over today. Might be the shoes pushing me in a slightly different direction than I'm used to.

 

[Guinness5.0]

In comparison I felt like I was nailed to a dry dock with my new shoes. I think a good trial might be some work boots and I've even heard some guys say leather loafers (if you don't mind looking like my dad at Disneyland).

I wear low-top Doc Martens when I squat and when I wear shorts with them I get some quizzical looks. Kinda adds to the fun

 

[Jim Ouini]

I wear low-top Doc Martens when I squat and when I wear shorts with them I get some quizzical looks. Kinda adds to the fun

I can picture you with the shorts & Doc's resting between sets thinking 'crush, kill, destroy/nice butt/boobies' and quite frankly it SCARES me

 

[Guinness5.0]

I can picture you with the shorts & Doc's resting between sets thinking 'crush, kill, destroy/nice butt/boobies' and quite frankly it SCARES me

Just be glad you don't have an adult daughter in the Chicago area

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 9 Day 1
BW after workout = 204

Squat
Warmup to 355 x 3 x 3

Went back to the old flat bottomed shoes. Gonna use the Oly shoes my next phase from the start.

It didn't help. Only got to parallel, if that.

Bench
Warmup to 280 x 2, failed 3rd rep.

Second rep was slooooow. And 3rd rep the spotter didn't help much, I hate it when they make me work

Clean Pull
Warmup to 325 x 3.

Notes:

I think this'll be my last squat/bench workout. My squat's broke, my knee hurts and I have some pain in my left pec/shoulder when I bench. Other than that I feel fine

So Wk 9 is only 2 workouts.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wk 9 Day 2 (last workout)

Dead (sumo)
Warmup - 135 x 5, 225 x 3, 275 x 1, 315 x 1, 365 x 1, 405 x 1

435 x 1 *PR*
455 x 2 *PR* Failed 3rd rep, barely broke the floor.

http://rapidshare.de/files/3276050/455_x_2.html

Maybe I could've locked out a bit more up top??

435 x 3 Last rep back started to round, doesn't show it. Tired I think.

http://rapidshare.de/files/3276087/435_x_3_dead.html

405 x 2 conventional dead (Sorry, it's sideways. I don't know what my wife was thinking...I told her this ain't no Glamour Shot)

http://rapidshare.de/files/3276137/405_x_2_conventional.html

Obviously happy with the 455 x 2. I was kind of scared as I drove to the gym in anticipation lol. Almost as happy with the conventional dead since I wasn't sure how much I'd be able to do.

And you can see what a pathetic place I have to deadlift at my gym. No my butt isn't leaning against the wall

Any form commments/observations are welcome

Push Press
Warmup to 175 - FAIL
165 FAIL
145 x 3

Ugh. My shoulders felt really tight and weak today. Didn't have these in me.

Chin-ups
60 x 2 x 3
BW x 3

Overall 2nd run-through results

BW gain: 191-->203. Up 12lbs, although they came early on.

Squat: broke. No comment
Bench: 265-->280
Dead: 365-->455. Don't know how much of it is just getting better neurologically and how much is raw brutal physical strength Don't care though lol

Awesome program, will definitely run again. Thanks Madcow2

 

[Guinness5.0]

I'm not sure whether to congratulate you on hitting 455 or make a voodoo doll and inflict injury to your spine so you don't get 500 before me

Ok I'm sure now- congrats bro!

BTW I can't view your vid since I'm at work but I'll check it later.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Thanks! Much appreciated your comments and reading your log throughout.

Remember I'm pulling sumo and even though I got 405 conventional I doubt it's much more (maybe 425?). Plus I use straps (but no belt).

Still happy though lol

And before anyone dogs my form too much, remember I'm self taught, 'never had a lesson' /Ferris Beuhler

 

[blut wump]

Fantastic deads, congrats!
Your Sumo is more of a semi-Sumo so you're better than you thought.

What I'm most amazed at is that you hit these PRs and kept going to do 435 and 405.
I had same thing with my presses straight after: my weights were way down.
500 has to be a real possibility next time around.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Thanks Blut! Appreciate the comments.

I guess the full sumo is 'super-wide' with toes pointed way out? Back angle more upright? Maybe that's why my conventional isn't *too* far off...

After I take a bit of a break I'm going to do Korte 3 x 3...I hope that gets me to 500 although I think he said to project only 15lbs. We shall see.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Just saw your 455 vid- looked easy! I gotta get some vids up. I've been having fun lately with my coworker's video phone. It really is a helpful tool to see things like squat depth, whether you leaned forward or if it was in your head, etc.

Also, one of the very few PLs at my gym came in last night and pulled 495 a couple times. His form was a lot like yours- still sumo but not that crazy, 4-inch ROM kind. Inspirational for sure.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Just saw your 455 vid- looked easy! I gotta get some vids up. I've been having fun lately with my coworker's video phone. It really is a helpful tool to see things like squat depth, whether you leaned forward or if it was in your head, etc.

Also, one of the very few PLs at my gym came in last night and pulled 495 a couple times. His form was a lot like yours- still sumo but not that crazy, 4-inch ROM kind. Inspirational for sure.

Thanks man. It was sloooow going up, at least it felt that way. Rep #3 was nailed to the floor (luckily my camera only has 15s movies so it ran out just in time).

I've been thinking of doing my squat, I'm sure it's nowhere near as deep as I think it is.