Thinking about hiring a personal trainer

[spatts]

To learn a thing or two:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=137230

500 is not a "big bench."

I have no doubt that there are BB trainers out there that know PL form...I'm one of them. This thread is about someone who said, "I need somebody ( in person ) to help me get fit, my form seems to be off ( hurt my shoulder yestarday during bench pressing )." So he is predisposed, and if he is benching at 90%, he will find the rotation to cause persistant discomfort.

I was suggesting ways he can increase hypertrophy of the pecs without further irritating his shoulder, and that is to do movements that involve shoulder rotation less and chest stimulation more. Benching at 90 degrees is not one of those movements.

The lats, shoulders and tris are prime movers of the PLers bench, and shoulder rotation is decreased. I have no doubt that the way you bench involves chest and shoulders with undue shoulder rotation. I think that Vx would be ill advised to bench your way given the symptoms he presents.

 

[ZZuluZ]

Spatterson, but WestSide Training isn't the be all and and end all of training in all its forms.

Don't tell a bodybuilder to bench like a powerlifter. Powerlifter bench in certain ways to artificially increase their poundages.

You're telling him to do flies?? WTF?

I'm with bignate on this one.

-Zulu

 

[spatts]

I'm not trying to tell him to train like a PLer. I'm telling him that movements with shoulder rotation like the 90 degree bench will do more harm then good if it's already irritating him.

Yes, seated flys are an example of a movement that limits shoulder rotation and stimulates the pecs. I don't know his goals...size, strength, etc. I just know that if his shoulder is causing him problems benching like that, and he wants to increase his bench, he needs to change his bench form.

I'm not a WSB preacher. I do my homework. You said that, not me. WSB invovles so much more than this...chains, bands, ME, speed, ME rotations, etc. This is bench pressing. This topic doesn't scratch the surface of WSB, and frankly I don't see how your comment applies. Ed Coan, Kaz, etc...none of them WSB guys. ALL of them contend that lats and tris moved their bench.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=137230

Bignate, I spent my fair share of time in med school, so you don't have to talk down to me. Feel free to use big words and present references for your studies. I'm always up for an intelligent debate. However, I don't think there is one here, as I'm not contradicting you.

 

[Screwball]

Don't tell a bodybuilder to bench like a powerlifter. Powerlifter bench in certain ways to artificially increase their poundages.

You need to rethink your choice of words, ZZuluZ. There is nothing artificial about a powerlifter's benching form and the numbers it produces. The PL technique for benching is tried and true and in no way is it a gimmick. I think a more appropriate use of the word artificial when it pertains to lifting is the use of equipment and/or gear.

The triceps are the prime mover in the bench press. Triceps are the most important. A strong upper back and lats are also extremely important in benching effectively. The chest is rarely the weak link in the pressing motion. If you want to protect the shoulders while benching then use the PL technique. Rotation is minimized and a lot of the weight is transfered to the more powerful back muscles.

 

[ZZuluZ]

"
You need to rethink your choice of words, ZZuluZ. There is nothing artificial about a powerlifter's benching form and the numbers it produces. The PL technique for benching is tried and true and in no way is it a gimmick. I think a more appropriate use of the word artificial when it pertains to lifting is the use of equipment and/or gear. "

I stick to my choice of words. Often these are artificial ways of increasing poundages.

" Yes, seated flys are an example of a movement that limits shoulder rotation and stimulates the pecs. I don't know his goals...size, strength, etc."

Seated flys? Urgh.

There's no need to quote WS here.....I've read it all and I'm a fan of it. It doesn't apply to the bodybuilder.

Powerlifting techniques will increase your bench but they are not optimal for pec development. Neither are flies.

Dips and Push-ups are FAR better alternatives.

-Zulu

 

[FitnessFrk]

ditto to b fold the truth....look for someone who practices what they preach. not the guy who's knees are the widest part of his legs, and tells you squats and dead lifts are bad !

 

[TheProject]

I stick to my choice of words. Often these are artificial ways of increasing poundages.

Not to be difficult here, but if a powerlifter moves the weight, how can it be considered "artificial"? Because it's not done in the same fashion as a bodybuilder?

 

[spatts]

Seated "F L I E S" are just one example of a BB type pec movement that doesn't rotate the shoulder too much. They target the tie in fairly well, and the entire pec when performed on a negative plane with proper form. There are SEVERAL movements that fall into this category, the ones you mention NOT included.

WHO IS QUOTING WESTSIDE!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

I stick to my choice of words. Often these are artificial ways of increasing poundages.

Why is this plural? We are talking one movement and one means...what are "these...ways?"

Why don't you do a little search on where/when the bench press originated, and what form was used to get maximum weight up...then you come tell me whose form is an artifical modification.

 

[Hannibal]

[BI stick to my choice of words. Often these are artificial ways of increasing poundages.
[/B]

IF...you are talkin about a bench shirt. There is a "ever so slight" bit of truth. But don't think that the shirt does it for you. AND if it is so easy to artificially move big weight with equipment. Call Inzer....and we'll see you at the next Bench Competition.

 

[bignate73]

if someone can honestly explain to me the involvement of the lats in a pressing movement beyond stabilization and slight internal rotation of the humerus...i would greatly appreciate it.

as for the guy whose done it. great for him. he can tell you this or that. my area of study is exercise SCIENCE, so that means...i want to know HOW. SPECIFICALLY.

i might, just might understand the muscle actions, their effect eccentrically, concentrically, and isometrically, so if someone can shed some light on the subject how the lats work for an concentric pressing motion, when their concentric action is shoulder extension, internal rotation of the humerus etc. isnt the PL'ers bench shoulder flexion??? coming from a more tucked elbow position to the sides.

now i can understand contracting the lats...to arch the back and thereby shorten the distance to the chest, also essentially putting the body in a decline position despite being on a flat bench. i understand all of this...but as for a muscle reversing its action, thats like saying that a hydraulic piston suddenly loses all its pressure and goes into a vacuum. if you follow the sliding filament theory.

im not being belittling or talking down to someone but honestly there is no logic to the whole "back release" belief.