They failed me on this lift: Please check pic...

[BigArnie]

Hi guys,

We had our Nationals last weekend. While warming up, I could see that the referees were very strict and were failing the guys in the first flight left, right and centre, mainly on depth. I decided to lower my opener from the planned 710lb down to 682lb just to make absolutely sure to get it, even though I've done a 710lb for a double in the gym the week before.

Anyhow, first lift was kinda difficult as the weight was too light to get down low and I had to work hard to get deep enough. Shot up like nothing, though. On the second lift I took 710lb, and performed what felt like a terrific squat. Weight was nice and light and depth felt excellent. I could not believe my eyes when I got up to see two red lights! The side referee said that he failed me on depth! While walking off-stage, someone showed me a pic taken with a digital cam of this squat and it looked almost TOO deep.

I decided to stay on this weight for my third attempt, even though it was very light and I was originally planning to do 740lb-ish on my third attempt. Lift felt pretty much like the previous one, except I went even deeper! This is where I messed up, because I was so deep that the bar rolled down on my back a little bit and when locking out, I had to stand leaning forward somewhat to prevent it from falling down, and got failed again.

What a disappointment. Here's some pics taken at the meet. Please tell me what you guys think of my squat depth. It's the last picture on the page. Would you have passed this lift? Its a pity that the picture was not taken one second earlier, as I was about two inches deeper than this. I've got a video that shows it clearly.

Please let me know if the geocities webpage works...

http://geocities.com/grootarno/index.htm

 

[Adam MacKinnon]

From what i can see in that pic your just hittin parrellel but you said you go t even lower so i would have definatly passed it.
How did ya do in the rest of the meet?

 

[IrishPower]

you know...

i have refrained from fed bashing a LONG time on this board but....

I have just one word for you my friend:
APF / WPC.

You are clearly below parallel in my eyes. Aren't you sick of training your ass off day in day out just to be fucked by judges? And by the way, the head judge isn't supposed to call depth although I have now heard this is common practice.

Powerlifting is supposed to be fun.

/irish

 

[BigArnie]

Yeah, Irish, you're right. It is supposed to be fun. After the comp, I had dozens of people coming up to me telling me that I was robbed, even some of the other referees that were judging other flights! I suppose one cannot linger on this but, like you said, I worked my butt of for this day only to have somebody spoil it all.

Adam, the rest of the meet did not go much better. I had my bench shirt tailored and only got it back the night before. During warmups it tore right open, so I had to do a 420lb opener with a torn shirt and then narrowly missed a 440lb. I pulled a 690lb deadlift and got stuck twice on the knees on 700lb. I was not surprised about this as I was really concentrating on my squat for this contest and did very little deadlift work.

I was alone in the SHW division so I won the title by default, second year in a row.

 

[powerlifterjay]

Hey BigArnie,

I would definitly have given that to ya. But hey it powerlifting. My last meet besides passing 1st attempt my second was just as low as my first and i got called high. I was stuck with my opener too. And i was just as deep as that. That just shows you that judging is always different, even from the same judge, in the same meet. So my point is not only do you have to put them in the hole, in any org, but yours especially. You know what your capapble of so just lower the box you training on and get ready for the next meet.

What else did you lift there?

 

[Deciever]

1st- what fed do you compete in? USAPL?
2nd- that was a deep enough squat.. hell, the top of your quad is parallel to the floor.
3rd- Holy shit you are friggen huge!

 

[strongestsurvive]

I know in the IPF having having competed at the IPF Junior World's in budapest in 98 that in the USPF/IPF that Parallel means that the top of the leg has to go below the top of the knee, NOT break parallel with the floor. Many people make this mistake because in other federations that is how it is judged. Think of drawing a line back from the top of the knee when you are in the squat position and the highest point of the quad has to break the plane. That is how all the old lifts around the times of kaz, rhienholdt, kuc, and cole where judged and is still held to that degree in some federations. But you can't bash other federations for having different rules find one that you like and only compare your lifts to other lifters in that federation.

Strongestsurvive

 

[b fold the truth]

I would have been way below had I done that...I would have put an entirely new meaning to "butt to the floor" squats...lol

Looked deep enough for me for sure..

B True

 

[benchmonster]

That was plenty deep. I would never bother going to one of their meets again if I was you. I will personally never go to one of their meets.

Nobody should be redlighted for a lift that deep. That is insane. I don't care what federation, below parallel is below parallel.

I am not going to insult any IPF lifter, but that fed seems to enjoy red lighting people. Maybe they are sadists.

B.

 

[IrishPower]

top of quad must be below parallel???? ok, so the bigger you get the harder it becomes.

you are an american? automatic 1 red light before you even start the lift.

aaarrrgggg.....

keep it fun people.

/irish

 

[benchmonster]

I posted a proposed set of rules a while back not sure where they ran off too, but it involved the use of no gear at all, you had a sensor on the floor which your butt must come into contact with before you were allowed any white lights at all, and the main focus of the BALA or Boring Ass Lifting Assocation was to put out as many reds as possible, and make sure there were as many bombs as we can get, and as low a total as possible.

Also in my proposed rules was a strict drug testing policy. It was so strict that an accusation of drug use was enough to get you kicked out of the org.

You were also not allowed to train for the events. Anyone caught training would be instantly kicked out of the org. Anyone accused of training would be suspended for one year.

Because the other goal is to just find out who is naturally the strongest. None of this whimpy "training" or "equipment" or "suplementation". What are you people trying to do?

Improve yourself? Not allowed!!!!

Can anyone guess what fed brought on my rant?

(Hint: It was not the High (I)PA)

B.

 

[Deciever]

hmm could it be the USAPL?

 

[IrishPower]

hahaha... ok this thread is turning into fed bashing....

although funny, and i am secretly happy to hear people bash the USAPL, we should really not do this as pointed out earlier by a previous poster. There are people who are able to enjoy the extreme strictness and doping policies. It is not for us to try and take away from these people just as they shouldn't bash equipment and supplementation in the other federations.

I emailed Dave Tate and got clarification of the IPA rules:

3. The lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the top of the thigh at the hip, NOT the hip joint, is lower than the top of the knee cap.

This seems to comply with the USAPL rules. However, it is my opinion that this is pretty subjective. I mean the top of the thigh is covered with a suit and sometimes the movement is too fast to really be able to know for sure.


I think the bottom line is to find a federation that at least judges consistently. It is also my opinion that state meets and attempts should be judged a little less harshly. I mean who really cares if Joe Bob's 3rd squat was 1" high. It's supposed to be fun right?


Kieran Kidder published an interesting tidbit to PLUSA. He showed two depths. One was the guidelines for a non-world record squat and the other was for a world-record attempt. It was a little stricter. This is kind of a neat idea. But again, it is so subjective.

 

[Lumberg]

I have considered the problem of judging competitive squat depth and I have an idea:

What is to stop an organization from developing some kind of sensor that is attached to the hips and knees? I mean, pick a physiological landmark like the top of some bone or something, and glue a sensor to the skin right before the lift. Then it's a computer that does the judging and not a person. That way no one could complain.

The only obstacle is $.

JC

 

[benchmonster]

I am trying to stop just short of actual federation bashing, and I certainly have nothing but respect for the actual competitors who lift USAPL, IPF, cause God knows I would not put all the work into preparation that is necessary only to be treated that way.

So, to my big friend from the great Northwest, I picked up on the subtle hint not to let my rant get away from me. Thank you.

(Benchmonster has a theory that most of those Sasquatch AKA Bigfoot sightings in Irishpower's area, are actually an unshaven Irishpower!! This is just a theory, I could be wrong)

B.

Oh, and Joncrane, I personally love the idea. I think a beep to indicate you are at parallel and it is OK to come up is a wonderful idea. Some of you techy guys need to get to work on it.

I personally am just an idea guy. You will have do discuss the actual building of such a device with engineering.

B.

 

[BigArnie]

Guys, thanks for all the replies. Should I change federation? Unfortunately, this is not an option in South Africa. We always had two federation here; the IPF and the WPC. This worked out quite neat as all the guys that decided to use dope competed in the WPC and the ones like myself that train natural competed IPF. There were of course some cheaters but this distinction could generally be seen in the difference in poundages lifted between the two, with the WPC being far ahead. A month ago, however, the WPC was disbanded and became part of the IPF, meaning that there is now only one fedreation in South Africa, namely the IPF.

I have mixed feelings about this as it means that local steroid users will have no alternative but to compete in the IPF which will of course make life very hard for poor natural slobs like myself. On the other hand, it does strengthen the sport, as the IPF is by far the biggest powerlifting body in the world, USA excluded.

Joncrane, I've been thinking about what you are suggesting for a long time. If somebody can come up with a practical way of doing this we'll have a perfect way of judging squat depth.

 

[BigArnie]

Irish, its absolutely true what you're saying about it becoming harder to get depth as you become bigger. I mean, I'm a big, tall man with thick legs, gluetes and hips, just like yourself. Suppose I was viewed from the side in a squatting position; the vertical distance from the bottom of the ham to the top of the quad near the hip joint will be at least a few inchs bigger than someone who is equally tall but say 150lb lighter. This means that I've gotta go that much deeper than the other guy to get the top of the quad parallel to the floor. Isn't that a bit unfair if judged only on how close the actual hip joint has to come to the floor?

 

[IrishPower]

B,

When I couldn't squat for awhile, I got this horrible compulsion to shave off all my body hair, sit in a tanning bed and diet. It was terrible. There is evidence of this insanity on growordie.com if you are a resourceful digger, but I cannot, in fear of being ridiculed, point you to it.

I assure you that when I had no body hair and a tan, I was a weak pussy. Ok, maybe teen girls looked at me more, but small consolation prize for having twiggy legs and a normal ass.

Big Arnie:

The guys in the WPC all smoke dope? Man, they must all be fat, lazy, and happy then. Just kidding. Dope in america is aka mary-jane, weed, and about 1000 other references.

Sorry to hear about the federation problem. I posted another thread asking for the story.

/irish

 

[Deciever]

haha irish i've seen those pics... but i'll be nice enough and not post the link up

 

[p03t1c]

IrishPower was a leg shaving, tan getting, tennis watching nancy boy? what is the world coming to? i didn't realize i was getting into a sport like that. i'm returning all of my equipment and switching to a real sport like bowling.

 

[benchmonster]

Ha ha Irish,

I recall those pics as well, but I will not put up a direct link either. I have 3 gym pics I had my son take when I was squatting the other day. (yes, I still squat)

One of them is actually quite deep and not a bad pic, and I would like to make it my avatar, but I have no idea how to shrink it down small enough to do this.

I am pitiful and don't know much about computers and digital pics and the like. Anyone who takes pity on me and wouldn't mind letting me know how to shrink down digital pics, your help would be appreciated.

B.

 

[Deciever]

i forget how to shrink them down, but post them up.. lets see the deep squat

 

[p03t1c]

benchmonster: send them to [email protected] and i'll resend u a small one.

 

[benchmonster]

Deciever, I don't have a way of posting them here. Hell, I have had the camera since x-mas, and only figured out how to get the pics from the camera to the computer last week.

Po3tic, I will send them to you at that e-mail. It may take a day or two, cause I don't have them saved on this computer. I will definately get them to you by monday, though.

B.

 

[GR8SCOT]

judging help

on the idea of some sort of system for juding depth of squats. Is it too silly an idea to use some sort of sticker on a lifters suit / knee wraps which can be used to 'line up' for the judges ? kinda like those crosses they put on crash test dummies hehe

i know this doesnt help the lifter but might make it easier for the judges which intern might remove doubts on depth.

as a side note, thats why ski pants usually have different coloured knee patches, so downhill freestyle ski judges can watch the knees to see if they come apart during a run.

just my 2.2cents (GST added)