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tendinitis--what to do

highspeed2112

New member
Okay been on a tren only cycle starting at 100mg/ed then reduced it down to 75mg/ed because of alittle gyno..started 2.5mg letro/ed to help out however now im experiencing some soreness in the left tendon of my arm(inner portion between elbow and forearm)...prior to starting cycle i had a little soreness but very very manageible....now the dam thing hurts esp when doing back ie.barbell rows or pulldowns depending on the hand placement...taking some advil and a buddy recommended some icyhot...i still have a few wks left but am getting annoyed..Any help or remedies would be great..thanks bros
 
Some how I had a feeling that was gonna be the answer...I guess I'll have to grit it for the next several wks..I can still do chest/shoulders/legs/tri without a problem..doesnt hurt that much..but back and bi's kills it..lol...
 
I have the same problem in my right arm. Almost identical symptons and pain with same exercises. Anyways I have been off cycle since October and just returned from vacation in Australia. I have been out of the gym for 4 weeks and returned this past week. My hope was that this rest time would clear my issue completely but alas it still remains. I really am very surprised that 4 weeks of rest was not enough time to recuperate the problem and like you I am now going to have to just grin and bear it. Sux!
 
I have had success with IGF before with similiar issues so I am thinking I will give this a shot soon also.
 
I have battled this problem alot. I have had it in elbows & more recently I have biceps tendentious that gives me some issues with incline presses. My advice would be:

1)Ice the shit out of it!!!!!!

2)Get aggressive ART massage therapy done by someone who has worked with athletes before.

3)Any natural anti-inflammatories can't hurt. I have been using a topical homeopathic cream called Traumeel along with Fish Oils.
 
Access said:
I have had success with IGF before with similiar issues so I am thinking I will give this a shot soon also.


can you do igf into a tendon/ligament? i would worry about a rupture--but the igf is very low volume--correct?

forget it--answered my own question--learn something new everyday
still loking for more....

Molecular Therapy (2006) 13, S402|[ndash]|S402; doi: 10.1016/j.ymthe.2006.08.1144


1048. Gene-Enhanced Mesenchymal Stem Cells for the Treatment of Tendinitis
Alan J. Nixon1 and Jennifer L. Haupt1

1Comparative Orthopaedics Laboratory, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

Top of pageAbstract
INTRODUCTION

IGF-I improves tendon healing in vitro.1 Exogenous IGF-I improves healing of tendinitis lesions.2 Autologous mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) provide a pool of pluripotent cells to enhance tendinitis repair. This study combined these two modalities by examining the therapeutic use of MSCs overexpressing IGF-I ligand.

METHODS

An adenoviral vector containing IGF-I (AdIGF-I) was assessed in MSCs to determine the optimal dose. MSC monolayers were transduced with AdIGF-I: 100, 250, 500, 750, and 1000 MOI. Monolayers were harvested on day 6 for analysis of IGF-I, collagen type I, and 18s mRNA. Two optimal viral doses were then assessed over time. Monolayers were harvested 2, 4, 8, 14, 21 and 28 days following transduction to determine gene expression of IGF-I, collagen type I, and 18S mRNA. Medium samples were utilized to determine IGF-I ligand levels.

RESULTS

MSCs transduced with adenoviral IGF-I expressed ligand at all experimental viral doses (Fig. 1). The optimal viral dose for enhanced IGF-I ligand production and minimal cytotoxic effects was 750 to 1000 MOI (Table 1). From the initial experiment, these two doses were examined over time. MSC expression of IGF-I message and ligand was significantly elevated in both viral doses, and remained significantly elevated throughout the course of 28 days in culture (Fig. 2). Medium IGF-I analysis confirmed therapeutic ligand levels. Collagen type I message was significantly elevated in the MSC cultures with AdIGF-I 48 hours post transduction.

DISCUSSION

MSCs produced therapeutic levels of ligand for 14 days following transduction. IGF-I tissue levels lag for 2 weeks following tendinitis injury.3 Utilizing MSCs as a vehicle for gene transfer and lesion healing is a logical therapeutic option; autogenous cell populations reduce immunoreactivity and extend ligand production. Adenoviral gene therapy in vivo avoids exogenous re-supplementation with recombinant IGF-I. Additionally, AdIGF-I transduced MSCs released IGF-I for 2 weeks, correlating to the initial phases of tendon healing. This study indicates AdIGF-I transduced mesenchymal stem cells may improve tendon healing.

___________________________

Expression of insulin-like growth factor binding proteins in healing tendon lesions Linda A. Dahlgren 1, Hussni O. Mohammed 2, Alan J. Nixon 1 *
1Comparative Orthopaedics Laboratory, Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York
2Department of Population Medicine and Diagnostic Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York

email: Alan J. Nixon ([email protected])

*Correspondence to Alan J. Nixon, Comparative Orthopaedics Laboratory, Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York. Telephone: 607-253-3050; Fax: 607: 253-3497.

Keywords
tendon healing • tendonitis • IGF-I • IGFBP • binding proteins


Abstract
The treatment of overuse tendon injuries with exogenous growth factors such as insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) may facilitate an improved return to sustained athletic function. The biological effects of IGF-I are exerted under the control of a complex of IGF receptors, binding proteins, and proteases. This IGF system includes a family of six structurally related high-affinity IGF binding proteins (IGFBPs) that protect IGF-I from local proteases and restrict access of IGF-I to its receptor. This study describes the expression of the IGFBPs in flexor tendon after acute injury and during healing over time. Collagenase-induced lesions were created in the tensile region of the flexor digitorum superficialis tendon of both forelimbs of 14 horses. Tendons were harvested from euthanatized horses 1, 2, 4, 8, or 24 weeks following injury. Gene expression was quantitated by fluorescent real-time PCR, and protein expression was evaluated by Western ligand blot (WLB). Message for IGFBPs 2 to 6 was expressed in both normal and healing tendon. No IGFBP-1 mRNA was detected in equine tendon. Message expression for IGFBP-2, -3, and -4 increased following injury, whereas message expression for IGFBP-5 and -6 decreased. Protein expression for IGFBP-2, -3, and -4 was detected by WLB in normal tendon and showed a marked increase following injury. Protein for IGFBP-5 and -6 was not detectable by WLB in normal or healing tendon. The results of this study document the IGFBP response of flexor tendons to injury and healing, which provides information necessary for the design of protocols that may enhance tendon healing through manipulation of IGF-I ligand and binding protein levels. © 2005 Orthopaedic Research Society. Published by Wiley Periodicals, Inc. J Orthop Res
 
good overview of the whole deak

By: David Adelberg MD

Everyone has heard of them, almost everyone has had one of them, no one likes them, so what are they?
Here are the terms: Tendons are the rope-like connective structures that connect muscle to bone.

More below.

The suffix -itis means inflammation (more below). Acute means new and chronic means the condition has persisted for more than, say, a few months.
The best demonstration of the overall organization of a muscle tendon bone unit is your own leg, Achilles and heel. With a little inspection and careful checking with your fingers, you can easily discern that the fleshy calf muscles (gastrocnemius and soleus) slowly taper and condense into the stout cord-like Achilles tendon that travels for several inches until it blends into the top and back wall of the heel bone (calcaneus).


The injury.

To get tendonitis, acute or chronic, you need a tendon injury. In daily life, limb and joint motion is a result of muscle contraction and simultaneous tendon traction on its target bone. Hence, the tendon is loaded (stressed). Either concentrically or eccentrically as the joint is flexed or extended. If the increase in demand is gradual, muscles and tendons will usually adapt without injury. But like any loaded structure, tendons will fail if overloaded. This can be like a dramatic explosive disruption of a complete Achilles tear on a basketball court or multiple small microscopic tears acquired over time from repetitive stress or local friction. Almost any activity in excess qualifies; such as weightlifting, throwing, tightening bolts etc. At last check, lifting a can of beer is still safe.


We are, of course, concerned here with the injury of microscopic tears. Being living structures, tendons do have limited repair capacity, but part of the initial response to injury is the inflammatory response. In this phase, the body recruits special cells attended by a sequence of chemical events that result in local tendon inflammation. The hallmarks of inflammation, you could probably list from experience, but are here, defined as swelling, pain, tenderness, increased warmth, and loss of function. With healing of the microscopic tears, the acute inflammation does subside.


Chronic tendonitis on the other hand is the accumulation over time of small scale injuries that do not heal. As such, one can say that chronic tendonitis is a chronic injury of failed healing resulting in areas of tendon degeneration.


When viewed by microscope, areas of chronic tendon degeneration may actually show an absence of inflammatory cells and as such, some authors feel that the term chromic tendonitis is inaccurate and prefer the term chronic tendinosis. The suffix -osis implies chronic degeneration without inflammation. Whichever term you prefer, this painful condition limits function and predisposes to tendon rupture.


Who gets tendonitis? Absolutely everyone, although individual genetic differences. lead to different genetic tendon compositions, leaving some individuals more vulnerable to tendon injury than others. Genetics will likely prove to be key in sorting out the tendonitis puzzle. Except in severe connective tissue disorders, there is no way yet of genetically identifying a person at risk. That said, women may be slightly more susceptible than men and increasing age certainly increases the risk for tendonitis.


Although it may he easy to understand how severe, repetitive tendon loading or friction can cause microscopic tendon tearing, it appears that in a few cases, even low level repetitive tendon stress (keyboard use) can cause the accumulation of micro tears that become symptomatic. This brings up two points. It is likely that many micro tears develop and heal without being noticed and second, by the time you experience pain of tendon inflammation, the tendon injury has likely been present for some days. Symptoms seem to present when the balance of ongoing injury and inflammation versus the healing process is tipped and the injury accumulates faster than the healing.


Structurally, tendons are largely woven of protein (collagen) fibers, like a rope. When these fibers are torn, the new collagen production needed for repair can take months. Hence, the long lime needed for tendon healing. Clearly, if there is new stress and injury during the slow healing phase, the balance will tip unfavorably. For discussion of tendon structure and composition and metabolism, see www.emedicine.com.


Prevention.

Common sense remains number one. Stretching and staying below a level of activity that produces inflammation are the keys. In sports or weight training, this may be as easy as working with a coach and gradually increasing load in a training program. Avoiding activity leading to tendon injury on the job is often easier said than done. But proper work station ergonomics can help. See Treatment, below.


Current treatment.

The goal in acute tendonitis is decreased inflammation and in both acute and chronic tendonitis, the goal is to promote better Tendon healing and break the cycle of failed healing. At present, nothing appears to speed up healing and treatment is largely aimed at preventing the inadvertent slowing of healing, while allowing some function and muscle rehabilitation. The muscle of the injured muscle tendon unit often being measurably weakened after injury.
Rest as it likely takes months for a tendon to heal, resting it is key and generally means avoiding activities which cause pain. Activity restrictions should lesson with time and tendon healing, and does not mean activity restriction to the extent of muscle atrophy or joint stiffness.
Physical therapy. Progressive stretching and local muscle strengthening works when done gradually.


Presently, many practitioners find that eccentric exercise is particularly helpful. Eccentric means a muscle is forced to lengthen during contraction, for example, the quadriceps that lengthen while contracting as one performs the down part of a wall squat. Most physical therapists will devise a program that starts with evaluation and progresses from palliative modalities like heat, ultrasound, ice, and electrical stimulation, and move on to stretching and resistance exercises and finally, full activity. The time in supervised treatment usually depends on need; for example the rate of progress, the availability of equipment at home or gym and insurance coverage. You can guess which way the trend is going. One can count on the component of home exercises of treatment to he key in almost all situations. For some specifics on home exercise programs, you may wish to check www.merk.com. A note on physical therapy modalities. These are palliative ,that is designed to reduce symptoms. They do not heal tendons or demonstrably speed tendon healing.


Shockwave therapy, the delivery of energy to tissues by blasting the area with sound shockwaves. This therapy is used in tennis elbow. (Lateral elbow extensor tendonitis and other areas). It appears that about one half of the patients receiving this treatment, typically once a week for about 3 weeks will experience some decrease in pain. It is usually tried when lesser physical therapy measures have failed.


Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents (NSAIDS), for those who can take them, remain a cornerstone of therapy in offering at least some pain relief. Ironically, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents seem to offer this benefit even in chronic tendinosis where inflammation per se figures less heavily. Many practitioners find that these medications work best when used preemptively, for example, before a traditionally painful activity, such as a physical therapy session.


Ice.

Especially at the end of a physical therapy session or a painful activity, ice offers many people good short-term pain relief. Ice, or cryotherapy, does not appear to affect the natural history of this disease either way-
Steroid injections (or help support your local orthopedist). Although such injections need to be properly given in regards to technique and number, these shots can dramatically decrease symptoms, usually taking about 4 or 5 days to do so. The most dramatic response can be seen in shoulder tendonitis and tennis elbow. This is fortunate, as these two are two of the most common, acute and chronic tendonitis conditions. In one form of shoulder or rotator cuff tendonitis, calcium deposits form in or near the rotator cuff tendons and can cause pain severe enough to prompt emergency room visits. A steroid shot into the space just outside the rotator cuff (the bursa) can reduce pain like an off switch. Such injections for non-calcific acute and chronic rotator cuff tendonitis can often be extremely helpful. Steroid injections do not cause tendons to heal and if steroid is injected into the tendon structure. it can cause injury predisposing tendon rupture. Hence, it is the usual practice to avoid injection into the tendon itself. However, the injection for tennis elbow is intentionally placed into the footprint of tendon origin at the lateral epicondyle. This is likely why most practitioners will limit the number of injections per year and in total into this structure.


Braces, orthotics, and splints. tese items help enforce rest. This is usually by limiting tendon excursion and hence, use. This will, then, necessarily interfere with normal local joint and tendon function, but that is the exact intention. Areas where this is particularly effective include a wrist splint for wrist tendonitis and knee splinting for tendonitis about the knee, quadriceps, patella and hamstrings. Orthotics can help with Achilles tendonitis by raising the heel and lower tendon peak loads and also help with posterior tibialis tendonitis by reducing midfoot collapse during the stance phase of walking. Perhaps, counter-intuitively, a wrist splint can be key for elbow tendonitis, either on the extensor side or flexor side. The stress on the tendons of origin at these elbow muscle groups is greatly diminished when one restricts motion of the attached muscles which are the wrist flexors and extensors. So by blocking wrist motion, one rests the forearm muscles and reduces tendon stress at the elbow anchoring site.


Around the knee, braces can be adjusted to allow various amounts of range of motion. In many cases, this can prevent the need for complete joint immobility in a brace, while allowing motion in a painless range. This range is usually best sorted out with a trainer or therapist.
As some function is required for virtually all hand use, splinting for thumb tendonitis is very limiting and hence, often unpopular and impractical. Nonetheless, for enforcing local tendon rest, it can be very effective.


In more advanced cases of chronic Achilles tendonitis, near complete rest that avoids crutches and allows walking can he achieved with a ski boot type orthosis that raises the heel internally, but allows flat foot contact on the floor. These devices typically have internal wedges under the heel that raise the heel to the point where local muscle contraction and hence tendon load are substantially reduced while weightbearing.


Conversely, while in bed or at rest, an Achilles stretching orthosis has been devised that pushes up on the forefoot, causing ankle dorsiflexion to the point where the Achilles and leg muscles are passively stretched. This device usually is called a resting night splint. Passive joint stretching devices have been constructed for virtually any stiff joint, but in those cases, the treatment is joint stiffness not tendonitis per se.


Owing to the large array of choices, if you are considering in-shoe orthotics for tendonitis, you should discuss the various types and construction with a qualified orthopedist or trainer or therapist. For example, will the $12 off-the-shelf model suffice or are you going to be sentenced to the $300 custom variety


Correcting technique. In weight training and throwing, tendon injury from errors in technique are not only common, but frequently amenable to changes in technique. These changes in technique are usually part of the program that includes the other interventions listed in this section. A throwing coach and lifting trainer are key. Weightlifting issues will be the subject of the next article in this series.


Workplace ergonomics. Although better for prevention than cure, there are several somewhat helpful changes that may decrease or prevent recurrence of symptoms.
Nutritional supplements. Sorry folks, but save your money. Now a multi-million dollar industry and as popular as tax refunds, there appears to be no convincing evidence that nutritional supplements help tendon healing or prevent tendon injury. Basic good nutrition may be as vital as oxygen to overall good health, but adding quantities of such items as Vitamin C, amino acids, glucosamine, and herbal extracts have not been shown to reduce injury or speed healing. The role of some supplements in reducing inflammation is hard to measure, and no standard effective recommendations seem to be available at present.


Body work and manipulation. If you like it, try it. Don't hold your breath waiting for these activities to speed tendon healing. Techniques in body work or manipulation that cause pain during or after a session should be viewed with the same caution that overwork and over-training and overuse, currently are.


Surgery.

Although another excellent way to support your local orthopedist, this remains the court of last resort. Whereas surgery may be the only treatment for complete tendon rupture, to my knowledge, it has no indication in acute tendonitis. When the problem is mechanical, like tendon injury from local friction, surgery can be curative, but surgery has risks that vary with the procedure and hence, surgery is not advised until less risky interventions fail. The less risky interventions include everything listed above in this treatment section.
Standard surgical risks common to virtually all tendon surgeries include failure, infection, stiffness, nerve injury, and blood vessel damage, anesthetic complications, both minor and major.


Nonetheless, when performed properly and followed by appropriate rehabilitation, the surgical success rates for chronic tendonitis range aboveve 90%. Some examples of surgery to correct chronic tendonitis are the following out-patient procedures. Decompression for rotator cuff tendonitis, tenodesis for biceps tendonitis, microdebridement for tennis elbow and little League elbow, tenalysis for thumb tendonitis, debridement for patella and quadriceps tendonitis, debridement and reconstruction for Achilles tendonitis, debridement and stabilization for peroneal tendonitis, and rarely, debridement for posterior tibialis tendonitis. Your orthopedic surgeon will usually take the time to discuss the role of surgery, its risks, benefits, outcomes, and alternatives of treatment, and give you procedural details, including down time, rehabilitation requirements, and thehe expectation for return of activity. If your orthopedist won't explain all of these, you probably have the wrong doc.


Future treatments, this remains the subject of research and speculation. The star here is gene therapy. If a genetics of predisposition is established, a treatment of gene therapy may be conceivable for prevention and healing. The closest but yet very distant treatment is stem cell work, for example, the local injection of stem cells into injury sites. There may be some early promising leads here.


As some compounds can he shown to favorably change tendon metabolism in a test tube, experiments to see if there may be safe effective treatments include the use of:
Insulin-like growth factor - IGF-l
Growth and differentiation factor GDF-5
Platelet-derived growth factor - PDF
Cartilage-derived morphogenetic protein - CD.IP-22
Bone morphogenetic protein 12 - BAIP-12
Transforming growth factor Beta I - fGF Beta I. I would suggest memorizing this list to make you popular at your next party.

1n this review, we have defined acute and chronic tendonitis, glimpsed the structural injury and associated inflammation and risk factors. We have touched on prevention and treatment in its various forms. Any phrase or term in this review can be used in a Google search for further details.

David A. Adelberg MD ©2006
 
Thanks for all the info..def an interesting read..hopefully alittle rest will help it out...had a feeling something neg was gonna happen while curling those 75lbs dumbbells...lol...
 
eddymerckx said:
if its a tendon--rest (+ice+compression+elevation) is the only real thing that will help.

Ice compression elevation and anti inflammatorys all reduce blood flow and IMPARE healing.

Check into prolotherapy if you are impatient, otherwise you need to greatly reduce stress on the joint, use heat and avoid anti-inflamatorys.
 
Zyflamend
This is a product you want to buy, it is a natural plant/herb that helps reduce inflamation and is especially good for tendonitis. You can buy it in any herbal shop or save mart or suppliment store. It is natural and will not affect your liver or kiddny.

2 of my clients who had tendonitis, have used it, along with my muscle repair techniques that i use on them, and they are both doing well now.

I had the same issue as you also, you will need a solid 2 to 3 weeks for the swelling to go down and to let the tendons heal.


try to take at least one week off and just do cardio and legs, dont bench or anything for a week.
Also, have a massage therapist work on the muscles inside the armpits and around the armpits including the inside part of the latts.

Alot of tendonitis pain goes away when those areas are workout. ask the therapist for a technique called scrubbing, they will know what you mean. You need to relax all the muscles in the back and shoulder area for your tendonitis to heal, this includes work on the bicep and tricep.

Also, stay away from any chinups or wide shoulder pull-ups for at least a month, those 2 excersises are the worst thing in the world for tendonitis.

after excersizing, ice down the area that hurts, but do not ice the area more than 20 minutes at a time, and make sure the ice pack is not frozen or super cold, since that can actually burn your muscles.

No, i am not a doctor, and i am not giving medical advice, i am just letting you know what worked for my clients and me.
 
get some deca or NPP and incorporate that into your cycle regimen, even if you have to extend the cycle out 6-8 more wks. Get some prescription anti inflammatories as well. My advice is to not totally neglect it, but work light and try to train around the injury. Wide grip pull ups are definitely going to be out for a long time w/ your bodyweight, but find a place w/ a gravitron machine and start at 100 lbs and every week try dropping the pin until you get down to 30 or 40 lbs. You'll need to modify your bicep and back routine a little. For biceps chances are a full range of motion will hurt too much to execute a good set, so my advice is partial reps on the top half. Every week try going down just a little lower. For back try cable rows, they'll allow you to play with the Range of motion and extend your arm to where it feels comfortable and you can pump the back, but still keeping your hands close to your midsection taking more bi's out of it. Tendonitis or tendon injuries are nothing to play around with, they take a LONG time to heal. I had a partial rupture to my right bicep in late November, I couldnt do any biceps until the beginning of January, and even now 2 1/2 months later I'm limited in weight on hammer curls and pulldowns/pullups. Lighten the load and do more reps. Hope this helps
 
Yeah this def helps...wide-grips cant do..nor can i do the barbell row but i tried the cable pull today and it wasnt terrible just went lighter and more reps..was actually able to do pulldowns but with my palms facing in towards me...whats weird is I actually feel it when im typing..lol....Thanks for all your help guys...Def learn alot from being on this board
 
I had bad biceps tendinitis and here is what worked for me.

1.) Warm up, stretch, work out, stretch again. Include several biceps stretches.
2.) Rub MSM cleam into biceps tendon 2x daily
3.) Ice following workout until pain subsides.
4.) Supplement with Cissus.

My tendon was all frayed and lumpy because I tried to train through it. It was in bad shape and looking to rupture so I know that this routine will turn it around if you stick with it. My biceps are about 80% as strong as before the injury mostly because I am paranoid to work them 100% despite having no symptoms for a year plus.
 
I had tendonitis/bursitis in my heel. I was put on Prednisone in a tapering dose, starting at 6 tabs/day and working my way down. It helped quite a bit. But, the most significant result is that it reduced the shoulder pain that I had for the last year. This was pain that cortisone site injects couldnt get rid of.. So, it was a great side effect.
 
Zyglamail said:
Ice compression elevation and anti inflammatorys all reduce blood flow and IMPARE healing. .

survey says: wrong

it is still the recommended treatment by most medical docs, pts b/c inflammation can cause additional damage the tendon or ligament is sort of encapsulated and excess inflammation --caused by heat, blood & fluid accumulation--can cause slight ruptures and hinder progress.

prolotherapy is a good suggestion, though i hear you have to fight to get insurance to cover it.

either way, its a minimum of 100 days to heal
 
highspeed2112 said:
Okay been on a trenbolone only cycle starting at 100mg/ed then reduced it down to 75mg/ed because of alittle gynecomastia..started 2.5mg Femera - letrozole - /ed to help out however now im experiencing some soreness in the left tendon of my arm(inner portion between elbow and forearm)...prior to starting cycle i had a little soreness but very very manageible....now the dam thing hurts esp when doing back ie.barbell rows or pulldowns depending on the hand placement...taking some advil and a buddy recommended some icyhot...i still have a few wks left but am getting annoyed..Any help or remedies would be great..thanks bros
two years ago I had exactly the same problem, i tried everything ice, cold, nsaids but didn't stop training , the tendinitis was getting worse so i went to the doctor, he told me to stop immediately cause if i didn't stop it could become chronic , so I stopped made same physical therapy for 4 weeks and began my training with low weights.
It was hard but i controlled the pain , in some exercises i still ear the click on the tendon , nothing serious, and I can go hard in a lot of exercises without pain.
Its hard but you got to stop if you want to get rid of that f***...
Good luck bro
 
eddymerckx said:
survey says: wrong

it is still the recommended treatment by most medical docs, pts b/c inflammation can cause additional damage the tendon or ligament is sort of encapsulated and excess inflammation --caused by heat, blood & fluid accumulation--can cause slight ruptures and hinder progress.

prolotherapy is a good suggestion, though i hear you have to fight to get insurance to cover it.

either way, its a minimum of 100 days to heal

And most docs also say that you cant safely use AAS you believe that too?

The reason excess inflammation becomes an issues is people dont lay off the activities that cause it and the problems occure from chronic inflamation.

Correct about insurance, prolo is hard to get insurance to cover but thats part of the problem with modern medicine. Its the same reason they often recommend expensive tests to diagnose things when simple tests will do. The health industry is driven by money. Prolo is safe, effective and cheap in terms of equipment.

I look at this way, ive tried the normals doc recommended stuff for serious tendonitis, it didnt work. Prolo works and it works well. It allowed my to continue to lift at the sime time my injuries healed and didnt sacrifice the long term health of my joints and actually made them stronger.

With the money so many of us spends on supplements, AAS, protein etc etc, spending some money on prolo is money well spent.
 
Zyglamail said:
And most docs also say that you cant safely use anabolic androgenic steroids you believe that too?

The reason excess inflammation becomes an issues is people dont lay off the activities that cause it and the problems occure from chronic inflamation.

Correct about insurance, prolo is hard to get insurance to cover but thats part of the problem with modern medicine. Its the same reason they often recommend expensive tests to diagnose things when simple tests will do. The health industry is driven by money. Prolo is safe, effective and cheap in terms of equipment.

I look at this way, ive tried the normals doc recommended stuff for serious tendonitis, it didnt work. Prolo works and it works well. It allowed my to continue to lift at the sime time my injuries healed and didnt sacrifice the long term health of my joints and actually made them stronger.

With the money so many of us spends on supplements, AAS, protein etc etc, spending some money on prolo is money well spent.


i agree--the "establishment" is not acting in the best interests of the patient--alothough i think they convince themselves they are---

i agree with prolo--did in once as a last ditch effort and it worked wonders--should have done it 8 weeks earlier.

i've tried everything but the problem is the healing time is so long it is hard to tell what works and what does not--the next time it happens, straight to the doc for prolo
 
I play a lot of golf and had heard of Prolotherapy being quite successful for golfing injuries. I had really not considered this at all myself for my injury but I see no reason why not to give it a shot. I will try the IGF first I think as I can do this myself. Does a general practioner provide Prolotherapy or do you have to search out someone specifically for this type of treatment?
 
Hey Eddy, were you able to train legs at all during the 11 months you had your groin pain? What happened? Im always curious to hear about other's chronic injuries, i have some of my own every year...
 
Access said:
I play a lot of golf and had heard of Prolotherapy being quite successful for golfing injuries. I had really not considered this at all myself for my injury but I see no reason why not to give it a shot. I will try the IGF first I think as I can do this myself. Does a general practioner provide Prolotherapy or do you have to search out someone specifically for this type of treatment?

Im not sure what the medical qualifications are to perform prolo but as far as I know they are all real doctors, they have just undergone special training for prolo. There very well may be some general practitioners that do it but I think its more of a specialized thing. I know my doc has business than he can handle just doing prolo and he owns his own practice so I think if they are good at doing prolo that, and perhaps other aspects of pain and sports injuries is where they will focus.
 
theslime said:
Hey Eddy, were you able to train legs at all during the 11 months you had your groin pain? What happened? Im always curious to hear about other's chronic injuries, i have some of my own every year...

no, actually that is how i ended-up going back on gear.

One day i did something while building some landscape stairs at my mother-in-laws house and bam--i was like someone stuck a hot poker into right groin.

because i could not do any legs and only very light cardio (cross trainer, no incline and little resistance, i decided to switch from my light upper body workout to hard mass training.

--when it gets warm i hope to get back on the bike--now with more mass to drag up the hills :rolleyes:

good luck with you injuries--
 
eddymerckx said:
no, actually that is how i ended-up going back on gear.

One day i did something while building some landscape stairs at my mother-in-laws house and bam--i was like someone stuck a hot poker into right groin.

because i could not do any legs and only very light cardio (cross trainer, no incline and little resistance, i decided to switch from my light upper body workout to hard mass training.

--when it gets warm i hope to get back on the bike--now with more mass to drag up the hills :rolleyes:

good luck with you injuries--

So I guess you didnt mind that your upper body would become bigger than your legs. If youre more into cycling than bodybuilding I imagine it took your mind off not being able to ride while you were focusing on building mass for your upper body. Is that right? Werent you a bit concerned about being assymetrical or did you just think it didnt matter as long as you had a goal. Im asking because las year i know i made the choice of being active while other injuries prevented me from focusing on lagging bodyparts. I thought it was the best thing for my mental health.
 
theslime said:
So I guess you didnt mind that your upper body would become bigger than your legs. If youre more into cycling than bodybuilding I imagine it took your mind off not being able to ride while you were focusing on building mass for your upper body. Is that right? Werent you a bit concerned about being assymetrical or did you just think it didnt matter as long as you had a goal. Im asking because las year i know i made the choice of being active while other injuries prevented me from focusing on lagging bodyparts. I thought it was the best thing for my mental health.


the whole thing was about sanity--i battle the bulge and have a sedentary high pressure job the i just need to go crazy on something--and like any good lawyer--looked for an advatage---e.g. tes.t :) I had cycles before so it was not a big deal--just better gear now--no lables written in crayon anymore.

not worried about symetry--he;; i am 41 do there nothing symetrical left except wrinkles. sheeet, i look nothing like some bros on her like 8and20--i just know how to get strong and keep the gians---just shoud have started at 25
 
Around 2 years back, i sufered a second degree tendon tear during an intense workout session and ignored it at first and kept working out, bearing the pain and all. Things went from bad to worse and one fine day i found that even the slightest weight ( 2.5 lbs ) was killing me. Went on complete rest. The elbow would be practically limp throughout the day. This continued for 8 months or so.

I tried everything under the sun to no avail. Only temporary relief. Then came the miracle!!!!!!!

I got introduced to an Indian Herbal preparation which did wonders in a couple of weeks. Try it out and lets hope it works for you too :heart:

Requirements :
------------------

Mahayograj Guggul ( Boswellia stearate ) - A VERY POWERFUL ANTI - INFLAMMATORY.
Powerful enough to stop inflammation in its tracks.

Amla ras ( Ambelica juice - all natural - sugar free )

It comes in small round pills. Take 4 pills first thing in the morning and crush it to powder. Take 30 - 40 ml of Amla juice and wash the powder down. Yeah baby. No workouts during the first two weeks. Should see astounding results.

And yes, i'm now totally pain free. Totally. And, i've stoppeed taking those pills ages back.

Best luck.

( Only, ensure tyo get authentic stuff )
 
Only time, ice and rest will provide healing.
However ...
I find that re-injuring is the big challange.
I start to get one of those spots to heal and pow! I hit it again.

What has been really helping is wrapping the area with a wide elastic band of some kind.
The injured spot is the center and I wrap about an inch above, the spot, and an inch below.
This "squeeze" supports and aloows me to keep going.
 
I will tell you what I do before and after chest and tri days. I have an issue with my tri insertion at the back of my right elbow. but knock wood it doing great so far. But I am being careful too.
I use stop pain 30 minutes before W/O. Lots of stretching before weights. More lighter warm-up sets to get the sinovial fluid moving. Ice Immediatley after w/o. next day(s) large bowl that i can soak my elbow in, fill with scalding water, add 1 cup epsom salt, soak for 30 minutes.(that is a must for me!!).
Use Zyflamend and CISSUS quadralingulis. I get the actual powder. Its brown and tastes like death but I make about 500 caps with it and take at least a triple recomended dose every day.
 
I find that re-injuring is the big challange.

Thats because the tissue takes 300 to 500 days for natural cell replacement to occure. Anti-inflamatories, ice, corticosteroids etc reduce localized inflamation and reduce healing. No one here is going to take a year off of lifting to let it heal, reinjury occurs and the downward spiral continues.

Thats where prolotherapy shines. You can still lift while being treated and continue to heal.
 
Thats because the tissue takes 300 to 500 days for natural cell replacement to occure. Anti-inflamatories, ice, corticosteroids etc reduce localized inflamation and reduce healing. No one here is going to take a year off of lifting to let it heal, reinjury occurs and the downward spiral continues.

Thats where prolotherapy shines. You can still lift while being treated and continue to heal.


ZYG, I was planning prolo for hopefully the fall. But it seems my issue personally may just have been stained tendons. Because its actually improving, the more and more i workout. I dont use anti I's for the reason you stated, BUT....I was not aware that Ice was counter healing? I was just doing it to be cautious. Not because I was in pain post W/O. should I stop then? I will say the salt soaking does wonders for that area if there is a little extra soreness. takes it all away.
 
BUT....I was not aware that Ice was counter healing? I was just doing it to be cautious. Not because I was in pain post W/O. should I stop then? I will say the salt soaking does wonders for that area if there is a little extra soreness. takes it all away.

The main reason docs tell you to use ice is to reduce swelling. Very localized swelling is the whole heart and sole of prolo. The irritant thats injected into the tendon/ligament causes extreme localized swelling which is what triggers the bodys own healing. Circulation is required to deliver nutrients and building blocks for repair as well as to remove damaged tissues from the injured area. Ice will cause a reduction in swelling and circulation and in turn hamper healing because it reduces all of the above.

If you have to apply ice after a workout then you are far from healed and actually hampering healing when what you should be doing is trying to promote circulation.
 
If you have to apply ice after a workout then you are far from healed and actually hampering healing when what you should be doing is trying to promote circulation.


No, I dont "have to". Since I have been back, My problem has errily not been there. I am using reasonable weights. Increasing weight in small increments. My elbow is getting used to the stress. I am pain free in my workouts for the first time in years. I went a little overboard a few weeks ago and felt some mild pain cause I went to heavy with press downs. Also was sore the next day where it shouldnt have been. so till the next week I used electrostim every day and salt soaks a few times. Next tri w/o I took the weight back down 10 lbs and was fine. next tri w/o I took it up and last week I was at the weight that gave me pain. But pain free.
My plan was to do prolo(if I need it) when I can afford it. There is a doc 30 miles from me. But I dont think its tendonitis. I think they were just seriously strained and neglected. If it were a tendonitis issue, I would think the ice would be making it worse, no?
 
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