Strength Correlation Between the Clean and the Press/Jerk

[bblazer]

I was wonderinng if anyone has noticed, or has read anything about a strength correlation on the clean & press/jerk if you break it down to its two basic components. Specifically, if a person can do a clean for x it can be predicted that their press would be around y.

For example, in many of the people I know, their clean is about 50-100 lbs lower than their press. That number is relatively (but anecdotally) consistant.

In my case as an example, I can press well above 250 for reps (more if I use a split jerk - I'm talking a strict press). But add in the clean, and when I get near 220 or so, I need to switch to the continental.

Thoughts?

B-

 

[moya]

i dont think there is any correlation at all... i can clean quite a bit more than i strict press...

 

[bjb4bama]

When you clean and press are you starting with the weight on the floor or at your knees as with a hang clean? the strenght correlation originates at the starting point of the lift. I believe the pull to clean phase will put you body in varying positions, using a number of muscle groups as opposed to simply the phase from a static and controlled starting point. It's a highly technical question. There is a mental component as well. When a lifter engages in the pull and clean phase with a lot of lbs, there is a tremendous amount of energy exerted. This, in theory, would decrease ones energy and self-determination for the final phase of the lift. I'm talking about a full fluid motion, with no stoppage. Can you pull and clean to the shoulder point, stop for a 2 count and then press with 220? According to my chart, if you can press 250 for 6 reps, you should get two reps out of 230, which seems to correlate with the numbers you provided. I used a max rep prediction chart from the fourth quarter program used by Nick Saban and The University of Alabama football program. I've seen this weigh and conditioning program double strenght and athletic performance in only 8 months of use. I'm not sure there is a definate answer to you question. There are to many variables. Good Day--BB

 

[scotty too hotty]

Clean and press is a lift that requires great technique and practice, so it would seem that there are too many variables to get a definite answer. The method probably would work to give you a guess at how much you can lift, try it and let us know! I don't know how trustworthy some of those theories are, however. For example, I can bench 225 over 20 times with good form, and my buddy said I should be able to bench 400 according to his calculations. I can't bench over 355? Maybe he's wrong, not the formula? who knows. Any answers bblaze?

 

[bblazer]

When you clean and press are you starting with the weight on the floor or at your knees as with a hang clean? the strenght correlation originates at the starting point of the lift. I believe the pull to clean phase will put you body in varying positions, using a number of muscle groups as opposed to simply the phase from a static and controlled starting point. It's a highly technical question. There is a mental component as well. When a lifter engages in the pull and clean phase with a lot of lbs, there is a tremendous amount of energy exerted. This, in theory, would decrease ones energy and self-determination for the final phase of the lift. I'm talking about a full fluid motion, with no stoppage. Can you pull and clean to the shoulder point, stop for a 2 count and then press with 220? According to my chart, if you can press 250 for 6 reps, you should get two reps out of 230, which seems to correlate with the numbers you provided. I used a max rep prediction chart from the fourth quarter program used by Nick Saban and The University of Alabama football program. I've seen this weigh and conditioning program double strenght and athletic performance in only 8 months of use. I'm not sure there is a definate answer to you question. There are to many variables. Good Day--BB

That is a fantastic answer! Thanks!

I should probably also say that the numbers I posted had to do with a 3" smooth axle bar, so I am sure grip comes into it. My brain may be sensing that my grip is going, and then tells my body to act in a certain way.

B-

 

[bblazer]

Clean and press is a lift that requires great technique and practice, so it would seem that there are too many variables to get a definite answer. The method probably would work to give you a guess at how much you can lift, try it and let us know! I don't know how trustworthy some of those theories are, however. For example, I can bench 225 over 20 times with good form, and my buddy said I should be able to bench 400 according to his calculations. I can't bench over 355? Maybe he's wrong, not the formula? who knows. Any answers bblaze?

I have always found that the higher the number of reps you use to calculate a 1RM, the higher the weight calculated, and that it is usually out or real range. If you were to do a 3-5RM and then do the calculations, it should be much more accurate.

B-

 

[musketeer]

Most atheletes who are proficient in the C&J cannot jerk as much as they can clean. This is evidenced in the fact that when completing the olympic lifts in competition, although some athletes power jerk for their max weights, virtually none will power clean and then jerk. Additionally, when performing the clean and press (when it was still included in world/olympic games), most lifters completed a power clean to conserve energy before the press.

Weight trainers and bodybuilders tend to have disproportionately strong pressing muscles in relation to their pulling muscles and are not athletic enough to pull explosively in comarison to their driving the bar overhead, which is far simpler.

In my experience, as atheletes age, they are unable to get 'under the bar' in the clean efficiently enough and the continental becomes their preferred method for getting the bar into the right position.

 

[bblazer]

Most atheletes who are proficient in the C&J cannot jerk as much as they can clean. This is evidenced in the fact that when completing the olympic lifts in competition, although some athletes power jerk for their max weights, virtually none will power clean and then jerk. Additionally, when performing the clean and press (when it was still included in world/olympic games), most lifters completed a power clean to conserve energy before the press.

Weight trainers and bodybuilders tend to have disproportionately strong pressing muscles in relation to their pulling muscles and are not athletic enough to pull explosively in comarison to their driving the bar overhead, which is far simpler.

In my experience, as atheletes age, they are unable to get 'under the bar' in the clean efficiently enough and the continental becomes their preferred method for getting the bar into the right position.

Are you making fun of my age?

B-