Steroids Give more than 5%

[aquatic_glories]

I think a "percentage" is more a figure of speech. Sure, you can take a bunch of gear and accomplish more with little work than someone natural who busts his ass. But after you go off, the natural guy will still have his muscle. Size built solely with gear doesn;t last. (Hell, look at Keven Lavrone).

So in that regard, yeah, steroids can give a PERMANENT, EXTRA 5%. But it must be in combination with proper training, diet etc, to be truly effective.

Nelson i dont understand why you think like this.

I have seen people around me who keep almost all their gains with good diet and pct. So it means that they can easily last.My pct is almost done and i am 7-8 kg heavier. I couldnt even do half without it.
So not only it gives 5%, it gives at least 200%

plus, you know that Levrone is one of the worst examples to give. If you dont train, of course you are gonna lose. But you will still stay more muscular than if you have not juiced.

Why dont you give Serge Nubret as an example????????


Explain more please

thanks

 

[chazk]

Nelson i dont understand why you think like this.

I have seen people around me who keep almost all their gains with good diet and pct. So it means that they can easily last.My pct is almost done and i am 7-8 kg heavier. I couldnt even do half without it.
So not only it gives 5%, it gives at least 200%


Explain more please

thanks

It is a sad relaity , that once you come off steroids ( and i dont mean for 3 months to hit another cycle ) I am talking years off. Even with hard work, and proper diet . You can only keep so much but alot of the steroid muscle seems to fade over time.

i have seen a close friend thats weighed 240lbs at 8-10% bf.... then come off juice and keep busting ass and can stay at 240lbs but he becomes much softer and eventually the bodyfat starts to creep up into the 12-15% range more of where he would be at naturally with out steroids , thyroid and the other drugs.

Plus you must remember if a guy " keeps 10lbs " from a 3 months cycle over a years time ?
that means he lost 5lbs of steroid muscle and the other 5lbs is were he was growing back at his natural pace for weight gain for the year, to break even on the scale after a year and stay the same means he lost some steroid growth and started building natural again , If he keep the 10lbs and still gained naturally he would be up 15lb at the end of the year .

 

[aquatic_glories]

It is a sad relaity , that once you come off steroids ( and i dont mean for 3 months to hit another cycle ) I am talking years off. Even with hard work, and proper diet . You can only keep so much but alot of the steroid muscle seems to fade over time.

i have seen a close friend thats weighed 240lbs at 8-10% bf.... then come off juice and keep busting ass and can stay at 240lbs but he becomes much softer and eventually the bodyfat starts to creep up into the 12-15% range more of where he would be at naturally with out steroids , thyroid and the other drugs.

Plus you must remember if a guy " keeps 10lbs " from a 3 months cycle over a years time ?
that means he lost 5lbs of steroid muscle and the other 5lbs is were he was growing back at his natural pace for weight gain for the year, to break even on the scale after a year and stay the same means he lost some steroid growth and started building natural again , If he keep the 10lbs and still gained naturally he would be up 15lb at the end of the year .

There is something wrong with this.
I have seen lots of people who added mass after-cycle naturally no problem , I am not even saying maintaning!!!

I asked very knowledgeable doctor who is also bb'er about this. Here is exact response. (Note that I am translating. If any question ,ask)


Materails like test, igf-1, slin ,mgf ,pgf effects what we call growth. Materials besides the anabolic steroids are secreted life-long. If we came to a certain limit with testosterone, it will be hard to grow with natural test over time but GH, IGF-1 secretion still goes on. But if you use GH and also take these to limits, then yes natural GH wont be effective at all. But then natural igf-1 will still be effective and it goes like that. Growth is always open to you people like you. But people use test, igf , mgf, slin so they reach limits every way. You have only used 1 group.


This is the most sensable thing. Plus rats grew muscle even without their testicles in a research. That proves me and this man even more.


If you arent close to your limits then why the hell would body give it up it's muscle mass. Non sense.
Your bro probably was over his limits .

ALSO SOME KNOWLEDGEABLE BRO'S ARE ASSUMING THAT PEOPLE WHO USES AAS ARE AT THEIR LIMITS. NO , MOST OF THEM ARE NOT.

so be careful with that

 

[aquatic_glories]

plus there are tens of people on this board who juiced took 2-3 years break and had no problem. It is all about genetic limits. We sometimes shouldnt forget that not all of us are average. For ex. , I am very tall and have very wide structure. I guess I can very easily hold 220-225 lbs at low bf %, easily.

But average people are 8 inches shorter than me plus their structure definitely cant compare to mine. So they can get over their genetic limits very easily with AAS. But people like me needs at least years of juicing to get that.

I dont want to argue. please dont change the topic. Let's keep EXACT SUBJECT. It will be very helpful to us all

thanks

 

[chazk]

^ yes , he was past his genetic limits , that is exactly what i am refering to , steroids enduced growth past genetic limits is very hard to keep.

If you are not even close to genetic limits why even take roids.
I am talking exp lifters that have been lifting for years or even decadeds.

Not some little fat faced homo that hits some dbol and goes from 160 to 175 fat and bloated and thinks he gained muscle.

i am talking guys that keep close documentation of their bodyfat and LBM.
guys that compete year after year . They come off juice for a break and back off for awhile , they know exactly what their journal logged in was for bodyweight , bf and LBM.
these are the guys that know they lost muscle and can tell by actualy comparing figures.
Not some weekend joe that hits a cycle then gains muscle,fat and bloat then downs cheeseburgers and tacos for a year and steps on the scale and says he weights the same off juice as on juice.

fact is the hardness, the leaness starts to fade the longer a person stays off.
will guys still stay big ? can they stil bust ass in the gym ? YES ofcoarse but no they lose the sunken jawline, the soild stomach,the veins ripping through the arms and calves. As you come off the juice all the extra blood volume and freaky definition starts to fade really quick for alot of guys

a few genetic freaks exist that might be well suited for bodybuilding after steroid use is over and still look good,.BUT if they were such genetic freaks why did they even need steroids in the first place.To break genetic limits is why

 

[aquatic_glories]

I agree with you.
What i am saying is that we have to accept that most people on AAS are nowhere in their limits. Sad but true. Then we have for professional reasons. Most of them start at an early age, too.

But we cant generalize like that. Generalization should be towards general and generally people who juices arent close to limits.

I hope you understand

thanks

 

[chazk]

I agree with you.
What i am saying is that we have to accept that most people on AAS are nowhere in their limits. Sad but true. Then we have for professional reasons. Most of them start at an early age, too.

But we cant generalize like that. Generalization should be towards general and generally people who juices arent close to limits.

I hope you understand

thanks

I see you're points as well.
The comments such as steroids give 5% -10% extra were said back in the late 70's and just stuck around.
When arnold said steroids gave 5% he was 6'2 stepping on stage at 235-240lb lean and cut but not shredded and dehydrated beyond belief and he looked great .
NOW guys are 5'7 stepping on stage at 3%bf at nationals and not even pro's and hell walking around my gym at a soild 240lbs built like freaks.

The days of the 5% is still doable for some guys that run low dose cycles and do not abuse the stuff. But it depends on how much is used and how the person genetics are

Steroid users really fall into different catagories.

1 low dosage 200mg to 400mg a week
2 moderatae dosage 500mg to 750mg a week
3 high dosage 1 gram -2 grams a week
4 and freaky dosages 2 grams plus
^just my opinion by the way and i feel lots of people will agree

the higher the doses the higher the percent of gains are comming from steroids and will be harder to keep when comming off.

I agree 100% most people use steroids are to young and not even close to full potential before taking the plunge

 

[aquatic_glories]

Thanks.

But there is another thing to say when you look from another point.

Some people also dont want to juice when they reached their limits because they know they will have to juice again to keep or improve that.
I have seen people thinkin this way.
They use to come closer to their limits in much shorter time. Once they come, they just aim to protect it naturally.

What do you think of this?? Are tehre people like these around you??

 

[1999TL]

Thanks.

But there is another thing to say when you look from another point.

Some people also dont want to juice when they reached their limits because they know they will have to juice again to keep or improve that.
I have seen people thinkin this way.
They use to come closer to their limits in much shorter time. Once they come, they just aim to protect it naturally.

What do you think of this?? Are tehre people like these around you??

Umm, that's me. When I first started college, my workout partner was juicing. Same with my other friends. When they got off(not sure if they did PCT), they shriveled from a grape to a raisin. That is what has kept me off of it. Now that I know about PCT, i'm curious to try.