Split Routine or Full Body

[chilledandy]

Who here does a split body part routine and who does a full body routine?
And more importantly, why do you choose one over the other?

 

[big_aug]

I've been doing a full body HST routine lately. I like it a lot. I feel I've gotten the best results I've ever had in my life by using it. I like the lower volume per day, but more frequency in training.

I'd say you should just switch it up a lot. Do a routine for a couple months, and then switch it up. You can't always do the same things and keep on growing.

 

[chilledandy]

What does HST mean?

 

[b_light]

Gotta mix it up, can't get used to a particular routine!

 

[big_aug]

HST = Hypertrophy Specific Training

 

[UFC22]

Just stick to heavy compound lifts as the primary backbone of your routine. Add a few fluff exercises if needed. Check the weight lifting forum out and read the stickies.

 

[OMEGA]

FULL BODY or HALF body workouts are only good for two things

1) to build a base of Endurance to get back into it

2) Pre Photo Shoot or Competition if your a Body builder and usually only for 2-3 weeks to carve out details


I always opt for Split body parts

 

[Powerbuilder333]

There's no way I would have the time or energy to hit all my bodyparts hard in one workout. I use a 4 day split, with 3 work outs a week (presently).

 

[sofakingdel]

i rotate between 5x5 (bout 9wks) and one body part a day(bout 12 wks) throughout the year

 

[silver_shadow]

FULL BODY or HALF body workouts are only good for two things

1) to build a base of Endurance to get back into it

2) Pre Photo Shoot or Competition if your a Body builder and usually only for 2-3 weeks to carve out details


I always opt for Split body parts

ah yes! maybe you should tell louie simmons, bill starr and mark rippetoe that.

 

[OMEGA]

I am talking Bodybuilders NOT power lifters

 

[silver_shadow]

I am talking Bodybuilders NOT power lifters

hmmm... not everyone here competes. but i do recall a few bodybuilders (who compete) who use the 5x5. ok i forgot PLs become fat from 5x5/WSB

 

[chilledandy]

it seems every you go this a heated debate

 

[JeremyD]

Someone very famous once said "Body part training is dead"

 

[chilledandy]

who?

 

[motodawg]

who?

JeremyD

 

[hyp1]

5 day body part split training,then a day off and repeat for me.

 

[chilledandy]

I always hit it five days and two off. I don't see how a full body can be effective over a long period of time.

 

[paradox]

If your hitting every muscle group hard, I dont see how one can have the energy to hit the entire body effectively.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I'm currently doing 4on/1off.

5x5 if done properly kicks ass for packing on overall size and strength, but I really do think that if you are a bodybuilder or physical looks are a priority then split training is the way to go.

If I was a sports player or just wanted to be big and strong without fussing over looks I would just do 5x5 for the most part and it's variations.

 

[UFC22]

5x5 if done properly kicks ass for packing on overall size and strength, but I really do think that if you are a bodybuilder or physical looks are a priority then split training is the way to go.

If I was a sports player or just wanted to be big and strong without fussing over looks I would just do 5x5 for the most part and it's variations.

Even if your going for just pure physical appearance the 5x5 would do you well. When it comes to lookin good it's all about diet.

 

[MichaelMacGyver]

about once a month I do a full body workout. Really kicks my butt.
Or if I have to travel for work. I'll do full body before I leave and full body when I return. I can usually find a place to do cardio when I'm traveling without any problem

 

[no1_brawler]

FULL BODY or HALF body workouts are only good for two things

1) to build a base of Endurance to get back into it

2) Pre Photo Shoot or Competition if your a Body builder and usually only for 2-3 weeks to carve out details


I always opt for Split body parts

Another sign that bodybuilders have no idea what they are talking about. Get over the myth that you have to hit one bodypart hard and have fucking 4-6 days rest. The body was designed to do whole body movements, day in and day out. Do you think farmers used to chest one day and then back the next? Get real. Full body workouts are much better for strength and even size. Its not about pushing your muscles to failure to get muscle hypertrophy. Its all about workload on a given muscle.

 

[hyp1]

Another sign that bodybuilders have no idea what they are talking about. Get over the myth that you have to hit one bodypart hard and have fucking 4-6 days rest. The body was designed to do whole body movements, day in and day out. Do you think farmers used to chest one day and then back the next? Get real. Full body workouts are much better for strength and even size. Its not about pushing your muscles to failure to get muscle hypertrophy. Its all about workload on a given muscle.

dude,for someone that's not posted for shit you should read more and educate yourself.hate to break the news but full body workouts will limit your stength and ability to use as much weight while working out as you could on a split body part workout routine.why do I say that?because when you workout your whole upper body(chest,shoulders,back,traps,biceps,forearms and triceps) on the same day your triceps will be prefatigued not to mention most if not all of your other muscles you use.you won't be able to do 1/2 of the fucking weight you normally would be able to do when on a split routine.I didn't say that you had to train just one bodypart and have 4 to 6 days to rest,thats something you pulled out of your ass,not something I've said.

you speak of farmers like they were built like Greek gods,implying that they are really muscular you have no fucking idea what you're talking about bro.that's precisely why farmers aren't big,because they do the same goddamned weight over and over never really increasing the load.do they have endurance?of course they do,but for that endurance a price is paid in muscular development.This isn't an endurance board........you must be lost bro.

 

[no1_brawler]

dude,for someone that's not posted for shit you should read more and educate yourself.hate to break the news but full body workouts will limit your stength and ability to do use as much weight while working out as you could on a split body part workout routine.why do I say that?because when you workout your whole upper body(chest,shoulders,back,traps,biceps,forearms and triceps) on the same day your triceps will be prefatigued not to mention most if not all of your other muscles you use.you won't be able to do 1/2 of the fucking weight you normally would be able to do when on a split routine.I didn't say that you had to train just one bodypart and have 4 to 6 days to rest,thats something you pulled out of your ass,not something I've said.

you speak of farmers like they were built like Greek gods,implying that they are really muscular you have no fucking idea what you're talking about bro.that's precisely why farmers aren't big,because they do the same goddamned weight over and over never really increasing the load.do they have endurance?of course they do,but for that endurance a price is paid in muscular development.This isn't an endurance board........you must be lost bro.

WEll ofcoarse you cant do fucking 8 bodyparts in one day. I'm talking about 1 compound exercise for each bodypart. Example: Bench Press, Barbell Row, Squat, Dips, Shrugs. Right there you've hit the chest, lats, triceps, biceps, quads, lower back, traps, front and rear delts. Now someone who does that can do each lift with 100% intensity cause he would be fresh for each lift coz he hasnt wore himself down with 4 chest exercises. What you gota say now BODYBUILDER?

 

[hyp1]

WEll ofcoarse you cant do fucking 8 bodyparts in one day. I'm talking about 1 compound exercise for each bodypart. Example: Bench Press, Barbell Row, Squat, Dips, Shrugs. Right there you've hit the chest, lats, triceps, biceps, quads, lower back, traps, front and rear delts. Now someone who does that can do each lift with 100% intensity cause he would be fresh for each lift coz he hasnt wore himself down with 4 chest exercises. What you gota say now BODYBUILDER?

in my opinion you can't fully workout your muscle group with one set,you're definitely limiting yourself.I guarantee you I can tax my muscles a helluva a lot better than you ever could on a split body routine than you trying to train by doing one goddamned set per muscle group.and that's precisely why you will stay so fucking scrawny,and little.what you got to say now GIRLIE MAN?

 

[no1_brawler]

in my opinion you can't fully workout your muscle group with one set,you're definitely limiting yourself.I guarantee you I can tax my muscles a helluva a lot better than you ever could on a split body routine than you trying to train by doing one goddamned set per muscle group.and that's precisely why you will stay so fucking scrawny,and little.what you got to say now GIRLIE MAN?

Stop spewing bullshit. In which fucking part of my post did i say that you should do 1 set per exercise? Its all about workload you fucking retard. Ive read more books than you can comprehend you bum. I do 5 sets per exercise, 5 exercises per day, each exercise hitting a differnet bodypart. I train motion, not bodypart like all bodybuilders who lift for looks instead of perforamce. And for your scrawny comment, I'm 210lbs with 11% bodyfat mate and thats with only one cycle. Now go back to your cable flyes and do 12 more sets to get the desired pufter PUMP.

 

[hyp1]

In which fucking part of my post did i say that you should do 1 set per exercise?

At first you didn't specify,so I was going by this by this post

"I'm talking about 1 compound exercise for each bodypart."

I'm laughing at every post you make bro,you're the one that so openly worshipped training like a goddamned farmer and made the head up your ass statement

Get real. Full body workouts are much better for strength and even size.

If that was the truth then bodybuilders would be doing full body workouts(for size and development like you claim),the truth is though all that does is build endurance not size,something you obviously don't know a thing about.

Hey,if you're training to be a fighter then training for speed and endurance does make sense.You are entirely full of shit when you said that full body workouts are better for strength and size....and what's fucking ironic is you're spouting this shit on a bodybuilding forum.

If you've read more books than I can comprehend,then you would think your spelling would be better.Perhaps you should work on your defense bro.....because judging from your spelling you've been brain raddled.

 

[Acela]

WEll ofcoarse you cant do fucking 8 bodyparts in one day. I'm talking about 1 compound exercise for each bodypart. Example: Bench Press, Barbell Row, Squat, Dips, Shrugs. Right there you've hit the chest, lats, triceps, biceps, quads, lower back, traps, front and rear delts. Now someone who does that can do each lift with 100% intensity cause he would be fresh for each lift coz he hasnt wore himself down with 4 chest exercises. What you gota say now BODYBUILDER?

Although I think this type of workout serves a purpose, it is devoid of any variety. Inherently a workout that provides variety, on top of intense muscle stumulis, will produce maximum muscle hypertrophy.

 

[chilledandy]

I love how heated some debates can get.

 

[Svengali]

Wow! I would find it embarrassing to post the nonsense I have read in this thread..

Anywho, I am testing a hybrid version of the 5x5 now. My delts and lats are incredibly well developed compared to my chest, which has lagged. I really cleaned up my form on chest and that has helped. I have switched to an every other day workout schedule. I split shoulders& tris/legs/ Back& Bi's. I do a 5x5 chest workout on each of these workout days. I have come off cycle (3 weeks) and gotten stronger and much fuller in my chest. It seems to be great for both strength and size. I will post results in a couple months
S

 

[airsmith2k]

WEll ofcoarse you cant do fucking 8 bodyparts in one day. I'm talking about 1 compound exercise for each bodypart. Example: Bench Press, Barbell Row, Squat, Dips, Shrugs. Right there you've hit the chest, lats, triceps, biceps, quads, lower back, traps, front and rear delts. Now someone who does that can do each lift with 100% intensity cause he would be fresh for each lift coz he hasnt wore himself down with 4 chest exercises. What you gota say now BODYBUILDER?

bro ur a fuckin idiot talking about farmers lol...what the hell do they have to do with bodybuilding?? you make it like they are built like competition bodybuilders lol........u prolly weigh 170 and the only way u can talk shit to big motherfuckers like us on this board is threw the computer!

 

[silver_shadow]

dude,for someone that's not posted for shit you should read more and educate yourself.hate to break the news but full body workouts will limit your stength and ability to use as much weight while working out as you could on a split body part workout routine.why do I say that?because when you workout your whole upper body(chest,shoulders,back,traps,biceps,forearms and triceps) on the same day your triceps will be prefatigued not to mention most if not all of your other muscles you use.you won't be able to do 1/2 of the fucking weight you normally would be able to do when on a split routine.I didn't say that you had to train just one bodypart and have 4 to 6 days to rest,thats something you pulled out of your ass,not something I've said.

you speak of farmers like they were built like Greek gods,implying that they are really muscular you have no fucking idea what you're talking about bro.that's precisely why farmers aren't big,because they do the same goddamned weight over and over never really increasing the load.do they have endurance?of course they do,but for that endurance a price is paid in muscular development.This isn't an endurance board........you must be lost bro.

this is the kind of thing someone who doesn't know that bench is a tricep and delt exercise (plus some pec) would say.
same goes for any kind of press. when you hit 400 on the bench (for instance) you are moving 400 with your tri's, delts and pecs combined contrary to what they say in the dummy's guide to 21st century bodybuilding. compare that with moving max 100lb DBs on some retarded shit like laterals or 50lbs on kickbacks and you would know just how wrong you are.

about split routines being ideal for strength

i know what why don't you tell all the powerlifters and olympic lifters to start using your monday, chest and bis, tuesdays delts and tris, etc routine!

 

[hyp1]

this is the kind of thing someone who doesn't know that bench is a tricep and delt exercise (plus some pec) would say.
same goes for any kind of press. when you hit 400 on the bench (for instance) you are moving 400 with your tri's, delts and pecs combined contrary to what they say in the dummy's guide to 21st century bodybuilding. compare that with moving max 100lb DBs on some retarded shit like laterals or 50lbs on kickbacks and you would know just how wrong you are.

i know what why don't you tell all the powerlifters and olympic lifters to start using your monday, chest and bis, tuesdays delts and tris, etc routine!

Hey dumbass,I know that triceps,delts,and pecs are being used extensively during the bench press.That's precisely why I said that your triceps would be pre fatigued from doing a full body workout and you couldn't use as much weight as if you were on a split body routine.By the way if that's you in your avatar you might want to change your diet(or lack of).40% bf is so unattractive bro.

when you hit 400 on the bench (for instance) you are moving 400 with your tri's, delts and pecs combined contrary to what they say in the dummy's guide to 21st century bodybuilding. compare that with moving max 100lb DBs on some retarded shit like laterals or 50lbs on kickbacks and you would know just how wrong you are.

Just for your information that made no fucking sense at all,it's obvious english isn't your first language.You might want to pay an interpreter to help you communicate.While I'm on the subject where in the fuck did I say that it was only triceps that you were using to bench press?the fact is I didn't anywhere.You should probably hire someone to read to you and explain what the fuck's been said also.

 

[silver_shadow]

hey dumbass,I know that triceps,delts,and pecs are being used extensively during the bench press.........that's precisely why I said that your triceps would be pre fatigued from doing a full body workout and you couldn't use as much weight as if you were on a split body routine.by the way if that's you in your avatar you might want to change your diet(or lack of).40% bf is so unattractive bro.



just for your information that made no fucking sense at all,it's obvious english isn't your first language.......you might want to pay an interpreter to help you communicate.

you idiot, why the hell would i care about *pre exhausting* my triceps on bench?! because i wouldn't be able to go *balls to the wall* on kickbacks?! oh my! bummer! you don't do kickbacks on a full body workout - presses work them adequately (same with delts)! is that hard to digest?!

as for the second part of your post... no english isn't my first language... but given that i've got a highly paid job in a 120 billion dollar AMERICAN company, i must have decent english language skills! perhaps you'd do well to take some english lessons so you could figure out what i meant in that post! or maybe you're just too dumb... no solution for that!

 

[hyp1]

you idiot, why the hell would i care about *pre exhausting* my triceps on bench?! because i wouldn't be able to go *balls to the wall* on kickbacks?! oh my! bummer! you don't do kickbacks on a full body workout! is that hard to digest?!

as for the second part of your statement... no english isn't my first language... but given that i've got a highly paid job in a 120 billion dollar AMERICAN company, i must have decent english language skills! perhaps you'd do well to take some english lessons so you could figure out what i meant in that post! or maybe you're just too dumb... no solution for that!

If you pre exhausted your triceps doing bench presses it would fuck up the shoulder part of your workout and ability to do heavier weight on military presses,which you do when doing a full body workout......or have you forgotten that obvious fact?

Where in the fuck did I say that you do dumbell kickbacks on a goddamned full body workout?The fact is I didn't.You're so pissed off that you're making shit up and I'm finding it hilarious.Perhaps you should learn to read english and actually fucking absorb what's being written,instead of jumping to boneheaded fucking conclusions.... and making an ass out of yourself.Another thing do yourself a favor and go on a diet bro.40% bodyfat doesn't qualify as being muscular at all.

 

[silver_shadow]

Where in the fuck did I say that you do dumbell kickbacks on a goddamned full body workout?The fact is I didn't.You're so pissed off that you're making shit up and I'm finding it hilarious.Perhaps you should learn to read english and actually fucking absorb what's being written,instead of jumping to boneheaded fucking conclusions.... and making an ass out of yourself.another thing do yourself a favor and go on a diet bro,being fat isn't being muscular at all.

where are your pics... and i wouldn't consider 14-15% bf fat.

and no you didn't say kickbacks... but what difference does that make? kickbacks, pushdowns, skull crushers, (isn't that what you strong mofo disco bodybuilders do for tri *isolation*) at the end of the day you aren't going to be moving much weight at all as compared to a big compound lift! are you so friggin dense?! i'm not making an ass of myself, you are just so dumb you think you are pwning me with your non existent logic.

 

[redguru]

I rotate between a 5x5 and an HST routine throughout the year. I'd hardly say powerlifters can't be buff, look at Mariusz, for example. I would suggest to you guys who denigrate full-body workouts that muscle definition is more due to diet.

 

[hyp1]

goddamned right I never said that you do dumbell kickbacks on a full body workout.you made that shit up because you were pissed off, and just made it up like a moron.make up some more shit,so I can laugh at you.

If you pre exhausted your triceps doing bench presses it would fuck up the shoulder part of your workout and ability to do heavier weight on military presses,which you do when doing a full body workout......or have you forgotten that obvious fact?

you are obviously lacking in logic reason and common sense.

 

[silver_shadow]

If you pre exhausted your triceps doing bench presses it would fuck up the shoulder part of your workout and ability to do heavier weight on military presses,which you do when doing a full body workout......or have you forgotten that obvious fact?

you dumb fuck, why MUST one do military press after bench for shoulders?! there's no escaping using your tri's and delts to adequately work your pecs. at the same time, bench press will hit your shoulders and tri's more than adequately or have you forgotten that obvious fact?

the bench press IS the shoulder part of the workout, it IS the tricep part of the workout and obviously it IS the pec part of the workout too.... sinking in pea brain?

 

[hyp1]

where are your pics... and i wouldn't consider 14-15% bf fat.

dude if you're saying that you're 14-15% bodyfat in your avatar,you're so full of shit......you've got me laughing.

 

[silver_shadow]

well, considering i have abs showing... and again where are your pics... since you want to make a point out of my pics?! or are you the ugly black dog?

 

[hyp1]

abs showing?you mean fat rolls.............lol

again you don't have love handles you have fat rolls........on each of your sides bro

descent back development though,but overall you have a high percentage of bodyfat.

yeah,I'm the black sharpei and your old lady loves me...........

 

[silver_shadow]

abs showing?you mean fat rolls.............lol

again you don't have love handles you have fat rolls........on each of your sides bro

yeah,I'm the black sharpei and your old lady loves me...........

hmmm.... is this the way you make your point? very sharp observations i must say. go on *own* me some more! i don't see you making valid points, i just see you being a dickhead.

after reading your arguments i understood that full body workouts are shit

 

[hyp1]

I'm not trying to 'own' or pwn you as you say

I'm just saying for me full body workouts I don't like because they limit my ability to train as hard as I like to and to lift as much weight as I normally would...due to pre exhaustion of muscle groups that effect one another while lifting.So for me I would much rather train using the split body part method so I can hit them as heavy and as hard as possible.

 

[no1_brawler]

I'm not trying to 'own' or pwn you as you say

I'm just saying for me full body workouts I don't like because they limit my ability to train as hard as I like to and to lift as much weight as I normally would...due to pre exhaustion of muscle groups that effect one another while lifting.So for me I would much rather train using the split body part method so I can hit them as heavy and as hard as possible.

JUST THE FUCK UP. your are so retarded. I am most likely heavier than you and must stronger with my FULL BODY WORKOUTS. Call them what you want, A person can go much harder when doing only one exercise per motion or 'bodypart". Yes all bodybuilders are tryin to achieve is muscle blood volume, like i said the fagget PUMP you so much desire. Bodybuilders work outs are ALL SHOW, NO GO. Why dont you get the fuck out of this forum for once and check out how the powerlifters and olympic athletes lift weights, youll learn something. Now go back and do 4 exercise for your biceps while im deadlifting you fucking bum.

 

[Svengali]

Ok enough of this lame flaming. The truth is that 5x5 variations and HST (3x10) work for those who apply it. Some of the best strength and BB training coaches in the world use these methods. Some use splits. Both work. Are we done?

 

[Svengali]

These threads are a waste of time.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

I'm just saying for me full body workouts I don't like because they limit my ability to train as hard ...due to pre exhaustion of muscle groups that effect one another while lifting.

So you think it is a bad idea to hit bench, OHP, then do chest flyes and tri pushdowns? I guess it really does suck that I cant do as much for my tri pushdowns since I already killed bench and OHP. Im never gonna get any tri strength or size if I cant do enough weight on my tri pushdowns

 

[hyp1]

JUST THE FUCK UP. your are so retarded. I am most likely heavier than you and must stronger with my FULL BODY WORKOUTS. Call them what you want, A person can go much harder when doing only one exercise per motion or 'bodypart". Yes all bodybuilders are tryin to achieve is muscle blood volume, like i said the fagget PUMP you so much desire. Bodybuilders work outs are ALL SHOW, NO GO. Why dont you get the fuck out of this forum for once and check out how the powerlifters and olympic athletes lift weights, youll learn something. Now go back and do 4 exercise for your biceps while im deadlifting you fucking bum.

Make me internet fucking wanna be tough guy...your macho posing cracks me up along with your bogus fucking name(I would lay money that you got called that AFTER you got your ass stomped,while people were laughing at you).You talk of reading more books than I could comprehend when your spelling is that of a dyslexic,retarded 3rd grader.

For your information I don't workout just for the pump,but for the actual load I put on my muscles.
Keep jumping to conclusions while I laugh at your moronic ass,and your praising of training like a 'farmer'.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

To keep this thread on track, My split is a two day split.

Push day:
Squat
Bench
OHP
Ancillary

Pull day:
Pullup
Deadlift
Row
Ancillary
rotator cuff

My erectors are starting to get tired since I lift 4x a week, so I think I am going to sub deadlift for power cleans and then hit squat afterwards.

 

[chilledandy]

what is ancillary?
Stewfoo, these threads aren't a waste of time, its just the people who resort to mud slinging, there posts that are a waste of time. People debating their methods of maximising workouts is a perfectly valid thread for a bodybuilding forum.

 

[Svengali]

what is ancillary?
Stewfoo, these threads aren't a waste of time, its just the people who resort to mud slinging, there posts that are a waste of time. People debating their methods of maximising workouts is a perfectly valid thread for a bodybuilding forum.

The original intent of the thread is something that I am very interested in. My comment was pointed at the mud slinging as well. Sorry if my intentions were not clear.

 

[chilledandy]

fair enough

 

[Acela]

So you think it is a bad idea to hit bench, OHP, then do chest flyes and tri pushdowns? I guess it really does suck that I cant do as much for my tri pushdowns since I already killed bench and OHP. Im never gonna get any tri strength or size if I cant do enough weight on my tri pushdowns

hyp1....this advice is coming from a guy who is 5'10" 140lbs.....

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=539627

didn't you know hyp1 is 6'1" 225lbs, has a 21.5" neck and runs a 4.4 forty yard dash AND has a cock as big as a baby's forearm. jesus dude....

 

[Svengali]

Wow! Checkmate?

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I think for overall size and power it's hard to beat a properly applied 5x5 program.

But, for aesthetic, balanced bodybuilding type development I believe split training is needed to bring up lagging areas.

I'd be pretty happy doing a bulking cycle on a solid dual factor 5x5 with maybe a little extra accessory work thrown in and then on the next cycle cut down and do split style training for refinement.

Some people say it's bullshit, but it's not.

Alot of bodybuilders do heavy ,basic training when bulking and then add in more training days and exercises when cutting for a contest.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

hyp1....this advice is coming from a guy who is 5'10" 140lbs.....

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=539627

didn't you know hyp1 is 6'1" 225lbs, has a 21.5" neck and runs a 4.4 forty yard dash AND has a cock as big as a baby's forearm. jesus dude....

Your point? I bench, pull, squat, and DL more than my weight and my numbers show no sign of stopping soon. My stats are nothing that I try to hide (you found them easy enough), Im damn proud of the gains I have made with no supps or wasteful training. While I'm at it might as well tell you my wrist is 7" around and my waist is 28" with a 40" chest and I have a 9" penis. I like long walks on the beach and bitches that havent learned that there is more than one body type and goal for lifting. According to you Acela my body type makes any knowledge null and void, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Maybe I should just do a few cycles to get my bodyweight up, so I could actually know what I'm talking about. Starting OLY lifting tomorrow, but I might as well just stop that pipe dream too since Im not 225 and eating babies for breakfast.

To answer your question chilledandy, Ancillary work is extra work. After I bench and press I will do any shoulder, chest, and tri work that I feel is needed for some extra "stress". Since my bench is still under 1.4x my bodyweight I dont get too much stress through just bench and OHP alone. So, after I hit the big and useful motions I do a bit of fluff work like flyes and tri pushdowns. Sure I cant fly as much weight since I just did bench, but my pecs already got a ton of stress from bench so the extra flyes are just icing on the cake. Right now my tri's are the weak link in benching (working on 225 bench @ or below 145bw), so I am focusing on tri work from my ancillary. Close grip bench, tri pushdowns, tri machine, and subscapularis work is good tri ancillary.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Acela, why dont you post up your Estats since you are so quick to pull up others? For the record I was not giving hyp1 advice, only asking a question based on his post (do the ??'s not give that away?). I dont give a fuck what anybody's stats are, being big doesnt give any advantage to knowledge. If I were to follow that line of thought, then coolcoolj doesnt know shit because he is under 200lbs right now. Im am amazed every time I wander into this subforum...

 

[no1_brawler]

Make me internet fucking wanna be tough guy...your macho posing cracks me up along with your bogus fucking name(I would lay money that you got called that AFTER you got your ass stomped,while people were laughing at you).You talk of reading more books than I could comprehend when your spelling is that of a dyslexic,retarded 3rd grader.

For your information I don't workout just for the pump,but for the actual load I put on my muscles.
Keep jumping to conclusions while I laugh at your moronic ass,and your praising of training like a 'farmer'.

Keep thinking that bitch. and im betting any farmer would whoop your ass any day of the week you bum. how much do u squat and deadlift? Let me guess, you do leg press and leg extension and dont do lower back cause it causes injuries. BITCH

 

[Powerbuilder333]

dude,for someone that's not posted for shit you should read more and educate yourself.hate to break the news but full body workouts will limit your stength and ability to use as much weight while working out as you could on a split body part workout routine.why do I say that?because when you workout your whole upper body(chest,shoulders,back,traps,biceps,forearms and triceps) on the same day your triceps will be prefatigued not to mention most if not all of your other muscles you use.you won't be able to do 1/2 of the fucking weight you normally would be able to do when on a split routine.I didn't say that you had to train just one bodypart and have 4 to 6 days to rest,thats something you pulled out of your ass,not something I've said.

you speak of farmers like they were built like Greek gods,implying that they are really muscular you have no fucking idea what you're talking about bro.that's precisely why farmers aren't big,because they do the same goddamned weight over and over never really increasing the load.do they have endurance?of course they do,but for that endurance a price is paid in muscular development.This isn't an endurance board........you must be lost bro.

Agreed!!!

 

[Powerbuilder333]

Keep thinking that bitch. and im betting any farmer would whoop your ass any day of the week you bum. how much do u squat and deadlift? Let me guess, you do leg press and leg extension and dont do lower back cause it causes injuries. BITCH

I just want to see you post up a vid (you tube, or tiny pic) of any of your lifts, and perhaps pix of the results your training techniques have given you.
I say if you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk, and back your shit up.

 

[xblitz44x]

For me, the strongest I've ever been was when I was concentrating on the big movements, more frequently while minimizing assistance work. To me, I feel that my time is better spent chinning with weight than it is playing around on the preacher curl bench.

I can count on two hands the amount of times I curled during my last bulking period and when I did my strength was through the roof with it.

When I'm 245 lbs and 11% bf I'll consider the benefits of cable front raises, or doing flyes after benching, but for now there is too much progress to be made getting strong where it counts, rather than raising the weight on my leg extensions.

 

[hyp1]

Keep thinking that bitch. and im betting any farmer would whoop your ass any day of the week you bum. how much do u squat and deadlift? Let me guess, you do leg press and leg extension and dont do lower back cause it causes injuries. BITCH

I just want to see you post up a vid (you tube, or tiny pic) of any of your lifts, and perhaps pix of the results your training techniques have given you.
I say if you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk, and back your shit up.

fucking PRECISELY.I think what we have on our hands with with no1 bawler(crybaby bitch) is an inbred farmer that thinks he's buff and a tough guy.

 

[hyp1]

hyp1....this advice is coming from a guy who is 5'10" 140lbs.....

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=539627

didn't you know hyp1 is 6'1" 225lbs, has a 21.5" neck and runs a 4.4 forty yard dash AND has a cock as big as a baby's forearm. jesus dude....

fucking hilarious post bro!!

 

[thebadguy54]

For me, the strongest I've ever been was when I was concentrating on the big movements, more frequently while minimizing assistance work. To me, I feel that my time is better spent chinning with weight than it is playing around on the preacher curl bench.

I can count on two hands the amount of times I curled during my last bulking period and when I did my strength was through the roof with it.

When I'm 245 lbs and 11% bf I'll consider the benefits of cable front raises, or doing flyes after benching, but for now there is too much progress to be made getting strong where it counts, rather than raising the weight on my leg extensions.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

I spend my precious time doing deadlifts, sqauts, pull ups, cleans, push presses, snatches etc.

Anyone who thinks EZ bar preacher curls and alternating dumbbell curls are a good way to build biceps should try doing 300 chin-ups as fast as possible for their next bicep workout.

 

[hyp1]

This guy knows what he's talking about.

I spend my precious time doing deadlifts, sqauts, pull ups, cleans, push presses, snatches etc.

Anyone who thinks EZ bar preacher curls and alternating dumbbell curls are a good way to build biceps should try doing 300 chin-ups anabolic steroids fast anabolic steroids possible for their next bicep workout.

300 chin ups are great for back work,and yeah it's true that your biceps will get fatigued.....but doing that exclusively for biceps work doesn't make sense to me.what makes sense to me is doing barbell curls,and hitting the bicep from different angles using different exercises with heavy weight.somedays that's including alternating dumbell curls,hammer curls,scott curls,incline curls,and a shitload of other combined exercise possibilities.

 

[thebadguy54]

300 chin ups are great for back work,and yeah it's true that your biceps will get fatigued.....but doing that exclusively for biceps work doesn't make sense to me.what makes sense to me is doing barbell curls,and hitting the bicep from different angles using different exercises with heavy weight.somedays that's including alternating dumbell curls,hammer curls,scott curls,incline curls,and a shitload of other combined exercise possibilities.

It all depends on your goals. If your goal is to have nice, big, round, symetrical, asthetically pleasing biceps, then I agree using different exercises with heavy weight and a variety of types of curls will work best.

I try not to concentrate on how the muscle looks and try to focus more on what my body (as a whole) can do. That is why I prefer to spend my time doing a sh*tload of pull-ups instead of a sh*tload of curls. Pull-ups are a far more functional movment that will work your lats (as you said) and your core along with your bi's.

Would you agree that the guy that does 1000 pull-ups in a month will be able to curl a s much as the curl guy? Or, if not curl a s much, adapt sooner to the curl workout then it would take for the curl guy to adapt to being able to do 1000 pull ups in a month (and not walk around with crippled bi's and lats all the time) ?

I realize most guys on here are body builders and I'm not trying to get anyone to train the way I train. I trained like a body builder for over 10 years and I'm convinced the body building protocol only works if you are on AAS. I guess my point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[no1_brawler]

Its a fucking FACT. Most bodybuilders are so lost its not funny. With your 8 exercise to target the bicep, its hilarious. ALL SHOW NO GO. How can you live with yourself. Yes i will be taping my lifts in a few weeks when i peak after this routine. Ill post them up on youtube.

P.S. Please read a book by Zatsiorski or Mel Ciff and get some information on how training effects the body.

 

[ProtienFiend]

If your hitting every muscle group hard, I dont see how one can have the energy to hit the entire body effectively.

Don't train to failure. Try it.

 

[ProtienFiend]

Don't train to failure. Try it.

Dont mean to sound like a dick here. This thread is real funny though. Either way of training will make good gains, thus why I said mix it up. Shoot, you could lift a boulder off your chest, over your head, and behind your back; eat and juice well, and you will probably make noticeable gains. Work in a lumber yard or construction for a few months. Most likely, if diet is in check, you will cut up nicely without any other sort of workout (but remember I said CHANGE IT UP).

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

300 chin ups are great for back work,and yeah it's true that your biceps will get fatigued.....but doing that exclusively for biceps work doesn't make sense to me.what makes sense to me is doing barbell curls,and hitting the bicep from different angles using different exercises with heavy weight.somedays that's including alternating dumbell curls,hammer curls,scott curls,incline curls,and a shitload of other combined exercise possibilities.

I just wanted to quote this gem. Isn't fatiguing the bicep your goal with all the "angles"?

Would you agree that the guy that does 1000 pull-ups in a month will be able to curl a s much anabolic steroids the curl guy? Or, if not curl a s much, adapt sooner to the curl workout then it would take for the curl guy to adapt to being able to do 1000 pull ups in a month (and not walk around with crippled bi's and lats all the time)

I also wanted to quote this gem. I think a guy that does 1000 weighted pullups a month will have more curl strength than the curlmeister. Within two weeks of curl training he could have such incredible strength.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

Who do you pull up fiends consider incredibly strong?
My top nominations are: Andy Bolton (1003 lb deadlift/2806 lb total), Gary Frank, Paul Anderson, Scott Mendleson, Gene Rychlak, ect. Basically superheavyweights that never do pull ups.
I'm the only 300 + pounder that I've ever seen do a single pull up (8 is my best effort), and I eventually strained my left elbow and forearm, and switched to pull downs.
My point? If you want 20" arms you do heavy close grip BB presses, and heavy cheat curls. You follow that up with strict isolation movements for your arms hitting them from different angles, and different rep ranges. That's what worked for me. I'm not saying anyone else should follow suit, but I consider myself genetically average, and if I could do it, so can many of you.
Like the Bro said "there is more than one way to skin a cat". I just take issue with the people flaming others when it's so easy to show contradictory proof.
no1 brawler, not to pick on you - your not the only one. How can you say most bodybuilders are so lost it's not funny. Ronnie Coleman uses a split routine and has gotten great results in all aspects of physical development (800 lb deadlift x 2). Most top bodybuilders have respectable levels of strength (400 BP), and some have amazing levels of strength (600 BP). I can't think of a single Pro BB that doesn't use a split routine. I can't think of a single top powerlifter (the exception was Jamie Harris a BP specialist) that doesn't use a split routine. I don't know many Olympic lifters, but the ones at my gym that compete also use a split routine.
Bottom line_Split routines work, that's why everybody who's anybody, and millions of others (like me) use some variation of the split routine.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

sub pullups with any other pull for the same effect. How about heavy rows, snatches, cleans, deads, etc.. There is more than one way to skin the cat, and I prefer to wear out my bi's with compound motions. I can still do cheat curls till Im blue in the face afterwards, and there is nothing wrong with that- but I dont have to anything for my bi's after enough pulling.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

sub pullups with any other pull for the same effect. How about heavy rows, snatches, cleans, deads, etc.. There is more than one way to skin the cat, and I prefer to wear out my bi's with compound motions. I can still do cheat curls till Im blue in the face afterwards, and there is nothing wrong with that- but I dont have to anything for my bi's after enough pulling.

After deads I train lats and abs. I save the arm training for after delt training, and again after pec training. Legs are another day with extra ab, glute, and hip training.
If you're happy with your arm size and strength without directly taining them great. I learned the hard way not to do to much tricep isolation work, because of the toll it took on my elbows.
Your results are the proof that your system is working for you - I'm sincere when I say that is all anyone should strive for.
I strongly believe in my present training system; as my arms are at there all time biggest, by bench is at a all time best, and my deadlift is just 25 lbs less than my all time best. I compete in powerlifting (push/pull only) and I'm 44. I fully expect to set a personal push/pull competitive record in the next 2 weeks.
Victory to all the Iron Warriors on EF!

 

[perp69]

I think you are trying to make a black and white issue out of a gray area. It depends on what your split is comprised of. I think it is fair to say that all full body workouts will use compound movements and are very effective for putting on mass and strength as long as you keep using some kind of progressive loading. Anyone can do full body lifts and make progress and they are great because of it. However, you can't say that about all splits because they can be any number of things. Where most guys are making the error on splits (as seen in my gym) is by depending on isolation movements to put on all their size and strength. In that case splits are not as effective as full body workouts IMO. Splits that incorporate the full body movements or compound type lifts are effective as long as you get rest and keep progressively loading.

Perp

 

[hyp1]

300 chin ups are great for back work,and yeah it's true that your biceps will get fatigued.....but doing that exclusively for biceps work doesn't make sense to me.what makes sense to me is doing barbell curls,and hitting the bicep from different angles using different exercises with heavy weight.somedays that's including alternating dumbell curls,hammer curls,scott curls,incline curls,and a shitload of other combined exercise possibilities.

I just wanted to quote this gem. Isn't fatiguing the bicep your goal with all the "angles"?

Would you agree that the guy that does 1000 pull-ups in a month will be able to curl a s much anabolic steroids the curl guy? Or, if not curl a s much, adapt sooner to the curl workout then it would take for the curl guy to adapt to being able to do 1000 pull ups in a month (and not walk around with crippled bi's and lats all the time)

I also wanted to quote this gem. I think a guy that does 1000 weighted pullups a month will have more curl strength than the curlmeister. Within two weeks of curl training he could have such incredible strength.

bro when you actually weigh over a buck fifty then you can talk shit,evidently the training you've been doing isn't working worth a shit hence your bodyweight and lack of muscular development.

To anyone that's getting good results with their program then by all means stick with it,my goal isn't to convert anyone over to split system training I've just found that it works well for me.

 

[needsize]

personally I dont think full body workouts are enough to build a complete physique, at an advanced level. When I was smaller, they were fine, but as I got more advanced, I needed to break things up, so I could concentrate on individual areas.
And anyone wanting to poke at bodybuilders saying we arent strong, I have videos on here of some decent lifts, ie, deadlift 500lbs x 9 reps, totally raw at 210lbs, squat 485x6reps rock bottom raw, bench 365x5, etc

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

bro when you actually weigh over a buck fifty then you can talk shit,evidently the training you've been doing isn't working worth a shit hence your bodyweight and lack of muscular development.

Im not trying to "convert" anybody, and have made no personal attacks. I am just stating my opinion. You dont know shit about me or the progress that I have made, nor do you know my goals (and that weight gain is not one). You take way too much consideration for a persons BW, I can only assume that you have issues with your own BW and self-image. 90% of the guys on this forum have insecurities about BW it seems.

This is a thread about training opinions, but so far I am seeing more trash talking than knowledge about training. This is the AS forum though, I guess I should expect more attitude and less thinking. I hope for thoughtful responses, however.

Needsize, great post. You are obviously training for BB purposes and your training works well for you. I wouldnt say that BBers are weak, especially the ones that understand proper training and progressive overload principles. There is nothing wrong with a split, I have a two day split. What kind of split do you run, and are you on any supplements?

 

[nolimitxxx]

Who here does a split body part routine and who does a full body routine?
And more importantly, why do you choose one over the other?

HIT and split

 

[needsize]

Im not trying to "convert" anybody, and have made no personal attacks. I am just stating my opinion. You dont know shit about me or the progress that I have made, nor do you know my goals (and that weight gain is not one). You take way too much consideration for a persons BW, I can only assume that you have issues with your own BW and self-image. 90% of the guys on this forum have insecurities about BW it seems.

This is a thread about training opinions, but so far I am seeing more trash talking than knowledge about training. This is the AS forum though, I guess I should expect more attitude and less thinking. I hope for thoughtful responses, however.

Needsize, great post. You are obviously training for BB purposes and your training works well for you. I wouldnt say that BBers are weak, especially the ones that understand proper training and progressive overload principles. There is nothing wrong with a split, I have a two day split. What kind of split do you run, and are you on any supplements?

on a mass split/structural program, I run a 5 day spilt, with each bodypart trained once a week, currently just finished a diet and am maintaining, so am just hitting the weights 4x a week, plus cardio

 

[rake922]

If your hitting every muscle group hard, I dont see how one can have the energy to hit the entire body effectively.

You only do 2-3 working sets per muscle.

So Monday- 3 sets for chest, 3 sets for Back, 2 sets for delts, 3 sets for legs

Wed-3 sets for chest, 3 sets for Back, 2 sets for delts, 3 sets for legs

Fri-3 sets for chest, 3 sets for Back, 2 sets for delts, 3 sets for legs

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

The body also adapts very quickly to the full body style routine. The first week sucks, but after that it is smooth sailing and strength gains till you hit your bodies natural limits or your sleeping and diet interferes.

 

[ceo]

I strongly believe in my present training system; as my arms are at there all time biggest, by bench is at a all time best, and my deadlift is just 25 lbs less than my all time best. I compete in powerlifting (push/pull only) and I'm 44. I fully expect to set a personal push/pull competitive record in the next 2 weeks.
Victory to all the Iron Warriors on EF!

nice! I'm 10 yrs younger than you so I LOVE reading this from someone who's gone before me! If you don't mind, please post up your present routine. Appreciated.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Currently using the basic linear 5x5.

Strength is climbing every week.

 

[GUESS]

FULL BODY or HALF body workouts are only good for two things

1) to build a base of Endurance to get back into it

2) Pre Photo Shoot or Competition if your a Body builder and usually only for 2-3 weeks to carve out details


I always opt for Split body parts

Dead bang on!

 

[exxex]

Always split.....

 

[motar]

you idiot, why the hell would i care about *pre exhausting* my triceps on bench?! because i wouldn't be able to go *balls to the wall* on kickbacks?! oh my! bummer! you don't do kickbacks on a full body workout - presses work them adequately (same with delts)! is that hard to digest?!

as for the second part of your post... no english isn't my first language... but given that i've got a highly paid job in a 120 billion dollar AMERICAN company, i must have decent english language skills! perhaps you'd do well to take some english lessons so you could figure out what i meant in that post! or maybe you're just too dumb... no solution for that!

silver shadow, you need to cut the bodyfat before you start telling people how to lift. It is obvious it isnt working out for you. What does working for a 120 billion company have to anything, for all we know you can be a janitor at wal-mart and still be working for a multi-billion dollar company

 

[ceo]

silver shadow, you need to cut the bodyfat before you start telling people how to lift. It is obvious it isnt working out for you. What does working for a 120 billion company have to anything, for all we know you can be a janitor at wal-mart and still be working for a multi-billion dollar company

wtf does bodyfat have to do with not telling people how to lift? Powerlifters, Oly lifters...who all have impeccable form...aren't known for their single digit BF levels, but can sure as shit lift and probably teach someone else quite well.

Not everyone's goal is to be a BB'er walking around with 4-8% BF all the time. Some bro's just want to get strong and they don't give two shits about dieting, other than eating a ton of food.

 

[Nomadic Dreamer]

Who here does a split body part routine and who does a full body routine?
And more importantly, why do you choose one over the other?

I do a full body routine because I lift to assist in my training of kickboxing and jiu-jitsu.....beach body workouts are great for looking good, but don't always give you the most usable strength out there. Sometimes I switch it up though and hit a few body parts for a couple of months if I notice something being kind of weak, for instance, I'll do a specific biceps routine lately because I want my arms a little bit bigger and stronger.

 

[Unit 2005]

Split all the way.

 

[Andalite]

It ALL depends on how you distribute fatigue.

 

[shibs]

The only way i could see it working was if you alternated your big lifts in. Say squat on mon, bench on wed, DL on fri. and kinda alternate them like that but while still working out your full body every day.